Finding an ideal livery client (kind of) and is there a market for basic livery?

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Ranyhyn

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Anyone here who owns their own yard. How have you gone about finding a select livery client to share your space with you?

It's not wholly the same as a normal livery as these people are often sharing your home with you - so how do you best go about rooting the genuine people from the ones who will be more trouble than the worth of it?

Also, is there actually a market for a basic livery yard (stable and turnout) without a school? The idea being the person would be able to come schooling with me once/twice a week when I hire a school 5 mins away. Or do people want all the useful facilities nowerdays?
 
It is extremely difficult. Yes, there would be people not bothered about posh facilities, but finding someone who would not eventually annoy the hell out of you is far more difficult. Even the nicest of people can become annoying, especially if they are needy and demanding of your time, or interferring, or trying to change the way you do things. Then just seeing them arrive on your yard can set your teeth on edge. No way of telling if they will end up like this. You could try advertising on *******.co.uk.
 
As someone who is on DIY yard without a school, I would like a school but as I'm not paying a lot, I feel the money I save can be spent on hiring a school as and when I need it. As long as your fees are reasonable I'm sure you'll find someone. If you are a member of a riding club, why don't you advertise through them as that was who I contacted when I moved into my present area?
 
asmp said:
As someone who is on DIY yard without a school, I would like a school but as I'm not paying a lot, I feel the money I save can be spent on hiring a school as and when I need it. As long as your fees are reasonable I'm sure you'll find someone. If you are a member of a riding club, why don't you advertise through them as that was who I contacted when I moved into my present area?
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Thank you :) that's a good idea. I can see if I like the people well enough through RC before approaching them, like try before you buy :D
 
I'm a nice livery - my YO siddled up to my friend and I and told us last week :D We have a basic yard and lots of turn and have fallen into the routine of helping the YOs out when they look like they would appreciate it but don't interfere.
 
BoolavogueDC said:
LOL have you experienced this kind of annoyance? :D
I can understand what you're saying though, thank you :)
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:D I'm saying nothing, suffice to say that a friend of mine who runs a large livery yard was absolutely spot on when she said that there are certain people who will start to annoy you, and once you get that first flicker of that feeling, then there is no way back. The annoyance will just grow and grow every time you see them on the yard. :D
 
^ :) that's nice to hear, thanks. It'd be a big thing, sharing my home with someone but of course, there'd be benefits for me also. But I guess it's swings and roundabouts as with all things and there's good and bad points to both!
 
I would advertise but state the person/s MUST be clean, tidy and responsible.

I would, if possible ask for references from their current/previous YO/YM.

Lay out before entering into anything what you expect from them, how many times a day they can get to their horse and the times (dont suppose you'd be too keen on someone who could only get their at 10pm every night for example)
 
re the ideal livery client - to help them be your ideal livery please be clear about any rules / your way of doing things right at the beginning, moving goalposts for rules are annoying for all concerned. Don't leave it 4 months and then start being annoyed with them because they're hanging their headcollars in the wrong place for example, or they leave rugs on doors and you don't. If they're on DIY think about what you want them to adhere to - communication is key, if you have rules about mucking out let them know (for example if you don't like semi deep litter tell them that).

Be clear about opening times, if they work realise they're likely to be there early morning/late evening/night. Re turnout, be clear with them about rotation of fields for example, is poo picking necessary, what happens when it's raining so that everything is clearly laid out from the beginning.

This is what I've picked up having been on 3 private yards in the past.

Communication is important, try and make it personal rather than texts or notes which can always be miscontrued.
 
There is no such thing as an 'ideal' livery client, as there is no such thing as an 'ideal' YO!

Just be aware that having people come on to your property can be very invasive, and however tolerant you think you are, this will be tested to the limit....

Yard rules and contracts are all well and good, but if you get the type of people in that just ignore them, it can make life very awkward especially if you don't like confrontations. Sadly it is very hard to judge people and their standards until they have come onto your property, and by then it is often too late. You are then left in the awkward situation of do you 'put up and shut up', or ask them to leave which is always unpleasant.

Other things to consider are business rates and your house insurance - this can be invalidated if you are using your property to make an income, however small. You will also need 3rd party insurance for your yard.

Good luck!
 
BoolavogueDC said:
Anyone here who owns their own yard. How have you gone about finding a select livery client to share your space with you?

It's not wholly the same as a normal livery as these people are often sharing your home with you - so how do you best go about rooting the genuine people from the ones who will be more trouble than the worth of it?

Also, is there actually a market for a basic livery yard (stable and turnout) without a school? The idea being the person would be able to come schooling with me once/twice a week when I hire a school 5 mins away. Or do people want all the useful facilities nowerdays?
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This is exactly what type of livery we have. We are on a private farm and the farmer & his wife live on site. We have a stable each and our own fields but no menage or anything. We hire one that's up the road at weekends through winter and sometimes during the week & at weekends in the Summer.

The main reason we moved was because of how chilled out it was and the hacking is great
 
I go on gut reaction with potential liveries and top of my list when I meet someone cold is how would I feel if I had to meet them over the water tap at 7am each morning...? Of course there are other very important considerations but you have hit the nail on the head that getting along is crucially important when based at your house and only one client.

As others have said you need to price insurance etc as having one client might not be financialy viable. Good luck!
 
In addition to what zandp said, tell them all this *before* they arrive, when they come to view, not after they've moved in. What may seem a minor point to you, may be a deal-breaker to your livery client. So many yards I've been on I've been given new rules after I arrived and thought if I knew xyz before I came I wouldn't have! As a livery client it doesn't make you amenable to helping the YO out when you've been messed around shortly after you move in, resulting in you keeping your eye out for a new yard and the nuisence of moving to look forward to again.
 
As someone has already said communication is key

But that needs to be both ways - I have seen on here a number of times posts where someone who shares their own yard with another has complained that their livery hasnt turned out/has turned out/has left their horse on its own/has fed their horse but not the YO's, has hacked out alone etc... almost like the livery horse is there just to keep their own horse happy - to me if I was a livery this would be very hard to deal with. Even if they are on your yard they should be able to please themselves up to a point!

If you make it clear from the start what you expect from them and they are happy with that and no one changes the goal posts I am sure it will be fine

I have to say though that I rent 'my' stables and land and would hate to share with anyone!
 
The big issue is rates and insurance .
As soon as I had a livery here I need to pay buisness rates .
And the insurance that covers the groom becomes much more expensive .
It cancelled any financial benefit and that's before we got to the rules on muck heaps watermeters and the like .
 
I am on a similar yard which has acquired about 4 liveries (currently) through word of mouth. I am a friend of a friend of the owner, although after 7 years i would say we are now all good friends. The yard has never advertised and somehow people have just come our way; one or two have been difficult but thankfully have left, and the others have all been lovely. From this experience I would say word of mouth is probably the best way to find like-minded people; could you just ask around?

Think also about the sort of horse you want there - mare or gelding, age, etc. At the moment we have one lady's daughter's yearling (just cut), and although a sweet horse, he is the problem child as he doesn't really fit into the fields we have the others in. We're all tolerant and have a lot of grazing so can manage, but other places it might be difficult.

Where in the country are you?
 
I've been on livery in the past with similar set ups. It's usually been word of mouth. Currently on small farm, after a previous disaster farmer now asks for references. And I'd say for the perfect one, they have to have reasonably similar ideas/habits. Eg if one of you is very tidy, the messy one will annoy the other. Likewise routines, if you do things as & when, & the other is on a fixed timetable, or vice versa, it will become annoying. And depending on set up, horses with reasonably similar needs. Last thing you want is trying to juggle one on restricted grazing & 3 poor doers & vice versa. If you have any big yards nearby with grooms, it might be worth asking them. Not all have space for employees to take their own, or aren't suitable, & that way you'd know what kind of person you're getting.
 
I think there is a market.

You get all kinds who go on to livery yards, some fit in, and some don't.

Of those who don't there's two types : the ones who cause hassle, and the ones who cannot cope with the hustle and bustle and politics.

I'm the latter. I HATE livery yards. I just want to come, do what needs doing and go. I want the rules in black and white, and I want to stable with someone who's chilled out.

Current place is the absolute best. Horse has individual turnout (I wouldn't mind shared, but it makes everything easier this way). YO's really know their stuff but never offer advice unless asked. I can laugh with them, and know that if there was an emergency I could trust them 101%. I hope they feel the same way about me.

I know the rules, and never push boundaries. I don't borrow anything, I'm neat and tidy, I try and time things around YOs so I don't inconvenience them. Basically I'm so damn grateful to have a space there and NOT have to be on a big yard that I bend over backwards to keep things sweet. I couldn't stable with anyone who got on my nerves. I'd have to spend up to two hours a day in the same place and to me keeping horses is meant to be a pleasure!

I think in my younger days I'd have not appreciated having space on a lovely quiet yard.

Facilities don't bother me as I can hire elsewhere.

So I think you need to ask around more mature friends and aim for a more mature lady (or gent) who wants the same as you. I think if you advertise willy-nilly in tack shops etc you'll end up with someone who WILL get on your nerves or a serial yard mover.
 
What do you actually want a livery for? If it's just the cash then (depending on where you are) for basic field and stable you might only be talking about £100 a month, is that worth it for insurance, rates, electric, water extra wear and tear on your fields/ fencing etc.
if it's for company - take some good advice from above get a big long list of all the things you'll put up with and what you won't - if you search on livery threads you'll find the most amazing things that liveries do that I would never have dreamed of putting in a 'rules' list but probably need to be in just in case! and then talk to people almost speed dating type and immediately walk away from anyone you think you might not get on well with
 
Well I've got the perfect livery: and long may she stay. I'm in a similar situation to OP as we live on the premises and my horses are on the yard as well.

How did I find her? Pure luck basically, she was looking for a yard, and the livery we'd had had just moved on. It turned out that I'd known her when she was much younger and rode out for the local dealer's yard!!! So you never know.

Personally if sharing your home-space/yard with someone, you need to be very selective: but also, sometimes, you just have to take the risk with people. In twenty years of doing it, we've only been unlucky once and thank god she only stayed for a month!! But that month was sheer hell - and IMO its better to have space on the yard than to have the wrong person in.

If you can get someone local, that's a great help, as you can bet your bottom dollar that someone somewhere will know of them - so if someone came along asking for livery that I wasn't sure about I'd use the local horsey network to ask around if anyone had heard of them, or ask around at a meet; just in case they were the sort that changed yards like they'd change their knickers, sort of thing and/or were the sort of livery that YO's were glad to be rid of.

Also consider their horses: the BEST judge of someone's character IMO is how their horse is!!! But also consider if they've got any bad habits i.e. banging away at the stable door for hours on end when you live on the place ain't exactly creating a harmonious atmosphere. Also consider whether you'd have a horse with sweet itch, whether you could cope with a laminitic, etc etc.
 
Why don't you offer companion or retirement livery? Where someone pays you X amount and you keep their pony with your own for them. No people bothering you every single day, and you still get the run of your own land. They can come and visit when they want to etc...

You could trial it with, say... a small yellow shitland ;)
 
When i first bought my boy we was on a yard with just a field & turnout. It had fabulous hacking & I only paid £10 a week for it :o However the YO got greedy & started letting lots of people on the yard (there was only 5 of us to start with, ended up with 20 when I left) & things started to go walkies (rug off backs, hay & straw going missing) so I had to leave (was there for 3 years)
I can honestly say that up to that point me & my boy were the happiest we had ever been & if it hadnt been for all the stealing we would have stayed.
All the yards I have been at since havent lived up to it & I have moved countless times because of 1 thing or another.
Good facilities are not everything, being on a pleasant yard with the basics at a good price would be much better IMO.
 
Some great points. As far as my own costs go, we already have three on the farm (horses) if I take one in-I'd sell one of my own. So w+t, fencing, land management etc stays the same.
I'm really looking for a hacking companion and general company I guess. The farm Pays for itself so I can afford to offer a very good price, so the main driver is company ideally.
Good point to find someone who likes and operates the same way as myself. Also I wanted to offer only full livery, so it gets done as/when I want.
 
Hmmm interesting thread, excellent points made.. re communication. I would suggest you are very clear in your intentions if what you want is a hacking companion and have an agenda other than to make money.. but you want to offer full livery.. hmmm sounds a bit confused.? Would it not be easier to loan out your 3rd horse to a rider for company or LWTB?

For me the BIG mistake that everyone seems to make in this whole livery business is forgetting that actually when we pay for livery we are paying customers....


I guess its all more complicated than that when it boils down to it.
 
potto said:
Hmmm interesting thread, excellent points made.. re communication. I would suggest you are very clear in your intentions if what you want is a hacking companion and have an agenda other than to make money.. but you want to offer full livery.. hmmm sounds a bit confused.? Would it not be easier to loan out your 3rd horse to a rider for company or LWTB?

For me the BIG mistake that everyone seems to make in this whole livery business is forgetting that actually when we pay for livery we are paying customers....


I guess its all more complicated than that when it boils down to it.
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I wouldn't charge more for the full livery then I would for DIY. I'd just rather NOT have someone traipsing past the house at 6am to do the job every day :) I have the luxury of not having to work, so I can do the mucking out when it suits me :)

The other two horses are unbroken companions only big (small) enough for children really. I can't cope with another child running around the place ;)

Re: hacking companion, yes. I'd have to be very clear what I want from a livery - other than treating our home properly, I'd just like someone who wanted to hack out a few times a week in capable company and enjoy a nice ride. In return they get cheap tack and the security of being stabled at someones home.

TBH it may well turn out more complicated than the worth of it and I understand now, something I didn't when I was younger! There's a very good reason people who are lucky enough to have land/yards etc don't share! :D But I'd like to, if I found Mrs/Mr right :)
 
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