First Horse for Teenage Daughter

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BitforBrains

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Hello,

We are in the process of looking to buy a first horse for our 13 year old (5ft6) who has been riding consistently 2 x per week for 4 years and 1 x per week for 3 years prior to lockdown. We are at a lovely yard / riding school where we have been offered DIY livery.

We have seen our first - a 16’1 Tb (I know!) gelding and will be viewing again soon with the yard manager who also buys ponies for the school.

Just wondering a few things and would be grateful if anyone had the time to answer. As you can gather we are very new to this! The agent is really happy to answer any questions and we will get more information when we see it next week- I’m just being impatient!

The horse is around the 8k mark. Is this around what we should be paying ? (subject to 5 point vet check obviously).

The horse’s BS record has sire unknown - is this usual? Its last entry was late 2023 - teenager had lost interest.

Would you buy from an agent (the agent is selling for a friend) and should I be looking at a contract which offers me the protection and buying from a trader?

Thank you if you have got this far!
 
Nagblagger is right but I couldn’t find if you have reposted so am responding here. Price is dependent upon so many factors…is this a schoolmaster who will “teach/look after” your daughter in her chosen discipline? Is it a youngster, green and needing to be brought on? Or is it been there done that type towards the end of a career and is needing a quieter life. Whilst looking to purchase for my daughter prices ranged from £6k to £15k and if I had a bigger budget I could ve spent much more, depending on what was wanted.
I must be honest I would want to buy from the owner or from a dealer…the sales agent scenario can be tricky should you have any issues with the horse immediately after purchase. I have known horses being calmed by withholding water or even syringed calmer prior to a viewing. A five stage vetting , with an independent vet ie not the sales agent, is important in my opinion and your insurance company will want one to verify the starting point. It appears that the horse is BS registered, is it jumping now? When you view make sure someone else rides first and jumps it and watch it leave the yard on its own as if going for a hack. Look at the sales photos ..is it in martingales, what bit. Has your daughter ridden more complex character horses than those at a riding school? Forgive me for this but being the “best” rider in the class at a riding school is quite different from managing a competing show jumper on your own in an arena or out and about.
Your daughter is 13 and about to embark upon the exam years, will you all have time and energy for a DIY kept horse? I mention this as I was able to take over daughters horses through her exam years alongside mine and had my own business so could tailor the hours worked.
If you could give more information about the horse I, or much more experienced folk who come later, might point out questions to ask etc.
I know it’s a fabulous feeling to be able to gift a horse to a child but the reality in time and money can be extremely sobering.
 
Sire unknown isn't a biggie to me.

Price depends on what the horse is. It's like saying what is a 3 bedroom house worth? There are so many factors involved.

I would be suspicious of no record since 2023. It may be that the horse was lame. Teen lost interest is a common cover up.

The agent thing means that the sale will be essentially a private sale, so no come-back if the horse is unsuitable, unless you can prove they were lying. It is sometimes used to cover up an issue such as lameness where, if you went to the horse's usual yard, you would hear that the horse has been off work. In this case, I would like the vet records released, so you can see the vaccinations and any other exams. This isn't fool proof as some people use 2 vets (one for routine and other for stuff they want to 'hide') but is a step.


I would look at the passport and check how long the horse was with the previous owner. I'd also want to speak with the previous owner direct. 1st hand conversation ois far more revealing than an agent saying, "as far as I know..."

However, I have sold twice through a sales livery, it is simply easier for me and the horse has better facilities to be shown. But, I have always spoken with prospective buyers myself as I have nothing to hide.

It is a 5 stage vetting. There are 5 distinct stages that the vet goes through. A 3 stage vetting is a shorter procedure where 2 of the stages are missed. The cost isn't significantly different, so I would always go for the complete 5 stage one, for a ridden horse.
 
Why does your 13 year old daughter need a 16.1hh TB? What does she want to do and how likely is she to grow more than 4 inches in the next three years? What you need as a first horse is a been there / done that type that she can have fun on and grow in confidence. A first horse is always worrying because you’ll be unsure what’s what even if she’s been riding regularly. Why does she want to show jump - other than it’s an aspiration for many. 13 year olds. I’d go for a part bred or registered native breed that will do a bit of everything. Either a coloured cob or a large M&M would be suitable and she could do WH, dressage, jumping, Trec etc. and they’d be much easier to look afte4 and less likely to do wrong.
 
Sire unknown either means that it is not a registered TB or that it has been repassported. It can't be registered as a TB without the sire's name in the passport. If the latter be aware that age in particular might be wrong on the replacement passport. If the passport is the original (dated within months of birth) and it isnt a registered TB then there's no guarantee it's aTB at all, in fact it's more likely that it's not.
.
 
She is 13, 5' 6" but presumably not much weight.

Why do you want a 16.1 TB? A horse - as opposed to a pony, or pony type - can take quite a lot of riding, i.e. in keeping them balanced and together.

Have you thought of what you will actually want to be doing - just riding at the livery yard, schooling, hacking, or will you want to go to shows, Pony Club?

A pony tends to look after their rider, a horse will want its rider to look after him. (Ok a generalisation, but it's mostly true). On the other hand a good pony will be a lot of money because too many haven't been produced that well. A horse will probably have been correctly schooled and ridden and may well be an easier ride.

It depends on what you want to do with the horse. If competitions you are going to be against adult riders.
 
Midlifecrisis said:
Nagblagger is right but I couldn’t find if you have reposted so am responding here. Price is dependent upon so many factors…is this a schoolmaster who will “teach/look after” your daughter in her chosen discipline? Is it a youngster, green and needing to be brought on? Or is it been there done that type towards the end of a career and is needing a quieter life. Whilst looking to purchase for my daughter prices ranged from £6k to £15k and if I had a bigger budget I could ve spent much more, depending on what was wanted.
I must be honest I would want to buy from the owner or from a dealer…the sales agent scenario can be tricky should you have any issues with the horse immediately after purchase. I have known horses being calmed by withholding water or even syringed calmer prior to a viewing. A five stage vetting , with an independent vet ie not the sales agent, is important in my opinion and your insurance company will want one to verify the starting point. It appears that the horse is BS registered, is it jumping now? When you view make sure someone else rides first and jumps it and watch it leave the yard on its own as if going for a hack. Look at the sales photos ..is it in martingales, what bit. Has your daughter ridden more complex character horses than those at a riding school? Forgive me for this but being the “best” rider in the class at a riding school is quite different from managing a competing show jumper on your own in an arena or out and about.
Your daughter is 13 and about to embark upon the exam years, will you all have time and energy for a DIY kept horse? I mention this as I was able to take over daughters horses through her exam years alongside mine and had my own business so could tailor the hours worked.
If you could give more information about the horse I, or much more experienced folk who come later, might point out questions to ask etc.
I know it’s a fabulous feeling to be able to gift a horse to a child but the reality in time and money can be extremely sobering.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for your candid and helpful response - it’s exactly what I’m looking for and I very much appreciate your honesty. The BS record shows last jumped in late 23 so I need to get to the bottom of that. He seemed a very kind and sensible horse when my daughter rode and jumped it. I am a little concerned about the agent scenario. It’s a lot to think about but very helpful to get feedback from experienced people. Thank you.
 
Red-1 said:
Sire unknown isn't a biggie to me.

Price depends on what the horse is. It's like saying what is a 3 bedroom house worth? There are so many factors involved.

I would be suspicious of no record since 2023. It may be that the horse was lame. Teen lost interest is a common cover up.

The agent thing means that the sale will be essentially a private sale, so no come-back if the horse is unsuitable, unless you can prove they were lying. It is sometimes used to cover up an issue such as lameness where, if you went to the horse's usual yard, you would hear that the horse has been off work. In this case, I would like the vet records released, so you can see the vaccinations and any other exams. This isn't fool proof as some people use 2 vets (one for routine and other for stuff they want to 'hide') but is a step.


I would look at the passport and check how long the horse was with the previous owner. I'd also want to speak with the previous owner direct. 1st hand conversation ois far more revealing than an agent saying, "as far as I know..."

However, I have sold twice through a sales livery, it is simply easier for me and the horse has better facilities to be shown. But, I have always spoken with prospective buyers myself as I have nothing to hide.

It is a 5 stage vetting. There are 5 distinct stages that the vet goes through. A 3 stage vetting is a shorter procedure where 2 of the stages are missed. The cost isn't significantly different, so I would always go for the complete 5 stage one, for a ridden horse.
Click to expand...
Thank you - all very helpful advice and I will definitely talk to the previous owners. Also really interesting about the potential for lameness - hoping the yard manager can pick up on this before the vetting stage. Great advice re vet records and previous yard (apparently there are the previous 3 years’ records available). Thank you again.
 
gallopingby said:
Why does your 13 year old daughter need a 16.1hh TB? What does she want to do and how likely is she to grow more than 4 inches in the next three years? What you need as a first horse is a been there / done that type that she can have fun on and grow in confidence. A first horse is always worrying because you’ll be unsure what’s what even if she’s been riding regularly. Why does she want to show jump - other than it’s an aspiration for many. 13 year olds. I’d go for a part bred or registered native breed that will do a bit of everything. Either a coloured cob or a large M&M would be suitable and she could do WH, dressage, jumping, Trec etc. and they’d be much easier to look afte4 and less likely to do wrong.
Click to expand...
She definitely doesn’t *need* a 16’1 TB however this was what we went to see on the advice of the agent who is known to the yard who thought it might be a good fit as it’s not a typical TB in terms of temperament and knows his onions so to speak. I think my daughter wants to do a bit of show jumping as it’s the only discipline she has tried and has really enjoyed it as the yard she rides at does unaffiliated competitions - she also wants to hack as well though. I don’t think we will be touring the country every weekend put it that way!
 
ycbm said:
Sire unknown either means that it is not a registered TB or that it has been repassported. It can't be registered as a TB without the sire's name in the passport. If the latter be aware that age in particular might be wrong on the replacement passport. If the passport is the original (dated within months of birth) and it isnt a registered TB then there's no guarantee it's aTB at all, in fact it's more likely that it's not.
.
Click to expand...
That’s really interesting and very informative. Thank you.
 
Orangehorse said:
She is 13, 5' 6" but presumably not much weight.

Why do you want a 16.1 TB? A horse - as opposed to a pony, or pony type - can take quite a lot of riding, i.e. in keeping them balanced and together.

Have you thought of what you will actually want to be doing - just riding at the livery yard, schooling, hacking, or will you want to go to shows, Pony Club?

A pony tends to look after their rider, a horse will want its rider to look after him. (Ok a generalisation, but it's mostly true). On the other hand a good pony will be a lot of money because too many haven't been produced that well. A horse will probably have been correctly schooled and ridden and may well be an easier ride.

It depends on what you want to do with the horse. If competitions you are going to be against adult riders.
Click to expand...
I don’t necessarily *want* a 16’1. TB This is the first horse we have seen on a recommendation. That’s interesting information. I think Pony Club may be something we would do although we are a wee bit away from the meet ups.
 
ycbm said:
Sire unknown either means that it is not a registered TB or that it has been repassported. It can't be registered as a TB without the sire's name in the passport. If the latter be aware that age in particular might be wrong on the replacement passport. If the passport is the original (dated within months of birth) and it isnt a registered TB then there's no guarantee it's aTB at all, in fact it's more likely that it's not.
.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Sorry to be a pain but can you you explain the repassporting please and how/why the age might wrong? Why would it be described as a TB if it isn’t ? Thank you!
 
BitforBrains said:
Hi,

Sorry to be a pain but can you you explain the repassporting please and how/why the age might wrong? Why would it be described as a TB if it isn’t ? Thank you!
Click to expand...
Putting it simply, people can, and do, lie if it is not the original passport with both parents listed, they always lose a few years.
Who is the passport agency it is registered with?
 
BitforBrains said:
Hi,

Sorry to be a pain but can you you explain the repassporting please and how/why the age might wrong? Why would it be described as a TB if it isn’t ? Thank you!
Click to expand...

It would be a bit odd to claim that a horse is thoroughbred if it's not, even though they have become more popular, they're still often cheaper than other breeds. If he's not registered then he can't have raced and also wouldn't be eligible for RoR etc.

A thoroughbred is a bit of an unusual breed to not be registered and even more odd for the sire to be unknown. Often if a horse hasn't got it's original passport, especially if it's lost it's breeding etc there's a good chance it's been done for disingenuous reasons such as hiding it's history or age etc. You might get lucky and find it has a microchip in it that can be linked to a weatherbys passport. I have had a horse that had lost it's passport and was able to trace it back to weatherbys thanks to the chip and also had a horse that had two microchips, one linked to the current passport with no recorded breeding and one linked to the stud book and his previous name. The previous name linked him to a history with multiple riders in hospital and various issues, getting him a new passport had meant that history was no longer linked to him.
 
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