First saddle for 3/4yr old?

C

Corona

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Hello,

Can anyone recommend a good first saddle for a youngster? Excellent conf, although he is bound to change shape so either something easy to reflock/modify or something that will hold value and can be sold on as and when. I have considered a wintec and such, but I really don't find them too comfortable (for me ). Obviously don't want to spend a fortune, I think something a little more forward cut may be good, so I can be prepared for baby bucks and spooks lol.

Any thoughts much appreciated! x
 
I bought my 4yo a thorowgood T6 3D. Nice and adjustable and forward cut!! Doesn't fit him now as he has changed too much but just sold it and get a nice return on it
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I'm using my Ideal VSD. It's wide and so not going to pinch and can have a numnah on if he drops a size. It's also nice and secure in case of high jinks.
 
Ditto a Thorowgood. Very well designed and adjustable, including the girthing. Wouldnt use a wintec if i was given one due to the design, many faults imo.

Donklet will be along later to agree with me but i always beat her to it!
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i got a t6 thorowgood for my 3yr old, app they keep htere value well, its ideal for tall riders too with long legs, was the only saddle at the time that fit both me and the horse

but ye you can put inserts etc in when they change shape to an extent
 
whatever fits the horse really!

i would always go for second hand good quality leather over synthetic.

eBay is a great place to look and pick up a bargain.
 
[ QUOTE ]
whatever fits the horse really!

i would always go for second hand good quality leather over synthetic.

eBay is a great place to look and pick up a bargain.

[/ QUOTE ]

youve contradicted yourself there! How do you know it fits if you buy it off ebay?
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You cant always tell from a few photos the shape of the tree (especially in relation to your own horses back shape), evenness and hardness of the flocking, if its wool or synthetic flock, width of gullet, etc. And the seller might not know accurate answers to these questions either. And you HAVE to ride in a saddle to know it fits.

Also, you can buy a new synthetic saddle for £350. For the same price in leather you are looking at an older saddle. This has many pitfalls, especially if buying unseen off the internet. In particular very few horses are symetrical, hence the flocking may be odd, been adjusted or need totally re-doing if hard or lumpy. If a brand new saddle has been on an asymetrial horse even just half a dozen times the flocking will be odd too. My local saddler charges £100 for a total re-flock in wool. If the flocking just needs minor adjustments it would cost £40 for a call out and £45-£60 for the flocking. Then any girth straps needing changing are £12 each. Older leather saddles are also frequently very narrow in the gullet and so the panels will sit on the spine.

I totally agree it should be whatever fits the horse but if the budget is limited then I would much rather have a new synthetic Thorowgood than an older saddle just because its leather. The best way is to try both and have an open mind!
 
I would always go for a properly fitted leather over synthetic and treed over treeless as it minumises the chance of pressure points...

I have a lovely GFS pro event saddle which is nice and forward cut and acts as a nice GP Saddle and even new, they don't cost the earth... It fits my boy quite nicely at the mo(at 2 years old) but I think by the time I back him it will be on the small side!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whatever fits the horse really!

i would always go for second hand good quality leather over synthetic.

eBay is a great place to look and pick up a bargain.

[/ QUOTE ]

youve contradicted yourself there! How do you know it fits if you buy it off ebay?
smile.gif
You cant always tell from a few photos the shape of the tree (especially in relation to your own horses back shape), evenness and hardness of the flocking, if its wool or synthetic flock, width of gullet, etc. And the seller might not know accurate answers to these questions either. And you HAVE to ride in a saddle to know it fits.

Also, you can buy a new synthetic saddle for £350. For the same price in leather you are looking at an older saddle. This has many pitfalls, especially if buying unseen off the internet. In particular very few horses are symetrical, hence the flocking may be odd, been adjusted or need totally re-doing if hard or lumpy. If a brand new saddle has been on an asymetrial horse even just half a dozen times the flocking will be odd too. My local saddler charges £100 for a total re-flock in wool. If the flocking just needs minor adjustments it would cost £40 for a call out and £45-£60 for the flocking. Then any girth straps needing changing are £12 each. Older leather saddles are also frequently very narrow in the gullet and so the panels will sit on the spine.

I totally agree it should be whatever fits the horse but if the budget is limited then I would much rather have a new synthetic Thorowgood than an older saddle just because its leather. The best way is to try both and have an open mind!

[/ QUOTE ]

But I did just this .... I bought one from ebay and low and behold it fitted
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It can be done, perhaps I am just lucky
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Col x
 
I dont want to appear argumentative and i mean this in the nicest possible way (and its just my opinion) but from your photo it looks like the saddle sits off the back of the horse towards the back i.e. the curve of the tree isnt quite right for your horse. the panel should meet the horse all the way along or you get a rocking horse effect and more pressure over a smaller area. if you put the saddle on without a numnah and get someone to lead the horse this might explain what i mean.

If i am wrong then yes, you are very lucky to get a saddle with decent flocking and that fits for £130, unseen and untried!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would always go for a properly fitted leather over synthetic and treed over treeless as it minumises the chance of pressure points...

... It fits my boy quite nicely at the mo(at 2 years old) but I think by the time I back him it will be on the small side!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is precisely why I back mine in good quality treeless
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as I can fit my saddles perfectly onto a changing shape.
 
I used my mums brand new Thorowgood T4 Cob for my young PB arab mare when i was backing and riding her away. It is extremely comfy for me to ride in and seems to fits her well. Im not keen on Wintecs but have been really impressed with the Thorowgood both in quality and fit and for the price you won't lose anything on it when you want to sell it on for a more expensive model.

Here's my girl wearing hers:
Evie1-1.jpg
 
Get a saddler out to fit a thorowgood (new one, with the changable gullet - most don't have so be careful!) so you know what you want then go onto ebay to find the exact same saddle but cheaper. The new Thorowgoods with the changable gullets mean it should fit for a while yet.

Wintecs are fine IF they suit your horses back (i.e fine TB type) but they don't suit many.

Colleen_Miss_tom: did you get that fitted it doesn't look a great fit on her? It looks like it will rock badly as the tree is too curved (a problem with the cheap Antill saddles). It also looks like it may be a little too narrow too.
 
It fits her fine
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Does not move in the slightest .

I've had a saddler look at the saddle, its been reflocked that was the only thing that needed doing to it, I really dont know how you can tell from that photo if its too narrow or not
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It is not too narrow, Since shes been broken, I've had a physio check her back and according to my physio...Her back is absolutely fine . If I thought for one second the saddle was doing her harm, I wouldn't be using it .

It also does not rock
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Perhaps the picture is a bad one .... I will for the benefit of yourself and teddyt.... will get a better photo
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.

I am also not trying to be arguementative
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Col x
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whatever fits the horse really!

i would always go for second hand good quality leather over synthetic.

eBay is a great place to look and pick up a bargain.

[/ QUOTE ]

youve contradicted yourself there! How do you know it fits if you buy it off ebay?
smile.gif
You cant always tell from a few photos the shape of the tree (especially in relation to your own horses back shape), evenness and hardness of the flocking, if its wool or synthetic flock, width of gullet, etc. And the seller might not know accurate answers to these questions either. And you HAVE to ride in a saddle to know it fits.

Also, you can buy a new synthetic saddle for £350. For the same price in leather you are looking at an older saddle. This has many pitfalls, especially if buying unseen off the internet. In particular very few horses are symetrical, hence the flocking may be odd, been adjusted or need totally re-doing if hard or lumpy. If a brand new saddle has been on an asymetrial horse even just half a dozen times the flocking will be odd too. My local saddler charges £100 for a total re-flock in wool. If the flocking just needs minor adjustments it would cost £40 for a call out and £45-£60 for the flocking. Then any girth straps needing changing are £12 each. Older leather saddles are also frequently very narrow in the gullet and so the panels will sit on the spine.

I totally agree it should be whatever fits the horse but if the budget is limited then I would much rather have a new synthetic Thorowgood than an older saddle just because its leather. The best way is to try both and have an open mind!

[/ QUOTE ]

please can you tell me exactly where i have contradicted myself?

you buy the saddle on eBay (or from your tackshop if they do 2nd hand).
you try it on your horse- you can get the saddler to check if you wish/need.
if it fits, great! if it doesn't you resell and buy another.

if you know a bit about horses and saddles you will know which makes of saddles fit which types/shapes of horses better and you can go from there.

buying saddles unseen is best done by people who have a bit of horsey experience.
if you are unsure you get your saddler to come out and fit the horse.

i have bought some fantastic saddles from eBay- the latest was a beautiful (older) Passier dressage saddle for £160.
it fits my 5yro TB like a glove and she goes beautifully in it.

would i rather ride in a Passier or a Thorowgood?
no contest for me
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perhaps before leaping to lecture someone, you should presume (or ask if) they know the front end of the horse from the back?
 
I wasn't leaping anywhere and i certainly wasn't lecturing. Maybe you shoud be a little less defensive and see that putting your point of view across isnt always lecturing? I will try and explain further and please dont see this as a lecture! I may ramble but i am trying to clarify my opinion.

I felt you contradicted yourself because you said whatever fits the horse then suggested buying unseen and untried off ebay. I tried to explain this by saying you have to ride in an individual saddle to know it fits, as no two second hand saddles are the same. For example, just one years difference in manufacturing date (and many saddles ages are unknown) can mean a difference in actual width of a tree named wide. And the whole flocking issue as i said before.

The thing i read on here many times is get the saddler out to fit the saddle to the horse. There lies another problem, a saddler can only fine tune the fit - he/she cant make a saddle fit. The tree width, tree profile, panel depth, panel width, panel type, gullet width, gusset depth and tree length all need to be right for the horse. Then the saddler can make minor adjustments to the flocking for the individual horse. That is a hell of a lot to get right from just a couple of photos. Granted, you may have experience of that particular saddle but as mentioned there are variations between models depending on the individual person who made the saddle and the year it was made. This basically makes it a huge risk.

Ok, so you could re-sell if it doesnt fit. But what hassle if you do this with several and also expense, paying for a second opinion several times, postage, etc? Most 4 year olds need 2+ saddles in their first year of work anyway (one of mine needed 4), so added to that, any you buy off the interenet that dont fit and you are wasting alot of time and money uneccessarily.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/G-Passier-Sohn-Dre...=item25582ecd77

Here is an older passier saddle. It may be lovely to ride in for the rider but i personally would never put this on any horse for the following reasons- 1) if you look at the first photo and imagine tilting the saddle to make the seat line level, the rear of the saddle will be up in the air off the horses back. If the seat is level the width is right but the saddle pressure would be concentrated over a smaller area and it would lift at the back, which is disasterous for a horse. 2) The girthing is very narrow, about 3 inches. That again concentrates pressure over a very small area. 3) The panels are bulbous, not flat (rear photo). That means that there is a much smaller surface area in contact with the horse, again increasing pressure. 4) It has no rear gusset, which adds to problems 1 & 3 and reduces the surface area. Many, many horses have to have a rear gusset, the depth depending on the horse. Few can get away without one without compromising on fit

So say i got this saddle for £170 and for arguments sake it does fit (which it wont as explained!), i would then have to pay £40 to get my saddler to check it and £100 for a total re-flock to sort out the bulbous panel (may still not sort it) and fine tune it. So thats £310 for a saddle that might not last my 4yo 6 months and still compromising because of the girthing. Only £40 more and i could get a brand new adjustable synthetic with better girthing, tree shape, etc. so i might not be in my element but at least the horse is better off! so iknow what i would choose.

As i said, if budget is limited then the best thing is try both second hand and synthetic and see what is best for the horse. Dont just rule out synthetic because you prefer leather, as the horse might not agree. Design has moved on and most older saddles for similar cost have the problems that the above passier have.

I have no idea if the passier example is like your saddle, dont take it personally. i am just using that to explain my point!

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my goodness you like to make it personal and like ramming your point home!

as i explained in my second post- if you are not sure about fit, you can get a saddler to check!

i would only be contradicting myself if every saddle bought on eBay did not fit the horse.

obviously you are not confident in your own abilities to check saddle fit and therefore would not buy unseen- i have no issue wth that.

i am happy to do it as i am confident i can tell what fits and what doesn't.
i can check the tree, i can check the panels etc etc.
my saddler checks all of my saddles during the year and he seems happy with my choices as well.

my horses are happy, i am happy, my equine osteopath is happy and so it my McTimoney practitioner.
if the only person unhappy with the arrangement is an anonymous person on an internet chatroom who for all i know has never been near a horse before, i can probably live with that.

the OP asked for opinions, i was giving my opinion which includes the fact i don't like synthetic saddles- so sue me!

i actually disagree in principle with the adjustable synthetic saddles as they only change the gullet width at the front- but again that is my personal opinion and i won't be ramming it down anyone's throat.
 
Blimey! My last sentence said dont take it personally, just trying to clarify my opinion. I also said that i may ramble. There was me thinking that forums are where you discuss things and give your opinion and learn from others. I am amazed that you are so defensive.
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I dont flock but am quite confident in fitting saddles (including to two badminton competitors and a HOYS placed pony last year, who are equally confident in my ability), hence why i personally would never buy a saddle from ebay!

Maybe you got out of bed the wrong side this morning but you have certainly taken me and what i was trying to say the wrong way.
 
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