First season, bitches fighting

JennBags

JennBags

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We think Juno has started her first season for the last few days, Suzie has been more aggressive towards Juno than usual. We were blaming it on Christmas with more people being around etc, but now I'm wondering if it's because of the season. Would this be normal?
 
She's been reacting and fighting back, usually she just backs away. It's when we interact with one or the other of them, so we just have to be careful I think.
 
Will she be spayed? Pen has been a dominant little madam and we only don't have fights because the older two ignore her bad behaviour - thats not going to happen with a terrier! I hope Pen will stop throwing her tiny weight around after spaying.
 
Yep! There's an old saying: Dogs fight for breeding rights; bitches fight for breathing rights.

My advice to you right now would be to separate totally and then once season is over re-introduce with NOTHING in the way that could be deemed to be high value and therefore worthy of fighting over. This may sound extreme BUT I know many people (experienced dog owners) who have had to re=home a bitch once the fighting has started.

Just to give the flip side, there are also many who have bitches that co-habit amicably. I think a lot comes down to; the breed, the age difference between the dogs, the personalities of the individual dogs, the facilities and the owner (experience, body language etc).

As you say above, things kick off when you interact.....YOU are a prized resource! :)
 
Thanks, that does sound good advice but I'm not sure it's going to be practical for us. If it gets worse, we'll have to work it out.

They've never got on particularly well, Juno is very submissive but Suzie is the boss and tells her off a lot. She doesn't normally go for her, except over food, and it's still only occasionally. We're going to have to just be very careful.
 
I appreciate that not everyone is set up to cope with all the adversities that dogs throw at us, but I would most certainly NOT leave these two dogs home alone at the moment without human supervision. If they are, or even one of them is, crate trained that may help you if the going gets tough.

What breed are they and what ages? Is the older one spayed or not?
 
gunnergundog said:
I appreciate that not everyone is set up to cope with all the adversities that dogs throw at us, but I would most certainly NOT leave these two dogs home alone at the moment without human supervision. If they are, or even one of them is, crate trained that may help you if the going gets tough.

What breed are they and what ages? Is the older one spayed or not?
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Oh we definitely won't leave them at home alone together, we rarely do anyway. I thought you meant keep them separate at all times.

Suzie is a 12yo Westie, she has been spayed. Juno is a 9mo old border collie, they're both crate trained so that's not a problem.
 
JennBags said:
Oh we definitely won't leave them at home alone together, we rarely do anyway. I thought you meant keep them separate at all times. {QUOTE]

Ideally, I did, yes! :)

I don't know you, you don't know me, so thought it best to emphasise the ' not home alone' message as have known a dog to be killed in such circumstance.

If they are crate trained then that makes life so much simpler - one in, one out.
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gunnergundog said:
I don't know you, you don't know me, so thought it best to emphasise the ' not home alone' message as have known a dog to be killed in such circumstance. If they are crate trained then that makes life so much simpler - one in, one out.
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Absolutely, and I very much appreciate the advice, better to spell it out I agree.
 
I agree, it can be normal for some. "Dogs fight for breeding rights; bitches fight for breathing rights" is accurate. I have one bitch who used to be an absolute monster to the other bitches during her season (she's now speyed). I considered keeping them separate during her season but decided it may make it more difficult to introduce her back into the pack, so instead i muzzled her when they were together (& obviously they were never left alone). She seemed to know she was disadvantaged & it brought her down a peg or two.
 
Hope you can work through it without incident JB.
Mabel gets INCREDIBLY moody when she is in season, and she is due soon, so I will have to watch her carefully with young Peggy, but she would never dare take it out on Daisy who is definitely boss! She will be spayed between this season and her next!
 
Chiffy said:
Just a word in defence of bitches. I have had them all my life and never had any aggression in any of them and absolutely no trouble when in season. I suppose I must be the exception that proves the rule.
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Well if you are, so are we. We have had bitches and mixed groups and have very rarely seen a cross word between them. There was one memorable occasion when 2 bitches (10 yr old litter sisters) were following each other through a narrow hallway, the one in front was in season, the one behind bumped into her and all hell let loose. However because they were not alone, order was soon restored and they never fell out again.
I think a lot of the problem in some cases is that the bitches think that they are in charge of the household. Ours know that they are not.
 
Chiffy said:
Just a word in defence of bitches. I have had them all my life and never had any aggression in any of them and absolutely no trouble when in season. I suppose I must be the exception that proves the rule.
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Chiffy, I have always had bitches, but never had any agresion issues either, like you, but as Mabel gets SO moody I will just be ultra watchfull.
 
Never any problems with my bitches (five at one time) but I’ve always had a castrated dog who seemed to keep things civil. Any rare sign of snipeyness (sic) between the bitches and I’ve come down on them hard. Two dominant bitches might be harder to control though and if there is a serious altercation between them life together could be very problematic.
 
Sprout said:
Chiffy, I have always had bitches, but never had any agresion issues either, like you, but as Mabel gets SO moody I will just be ultra watchfull.
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I think that is the 'secret', the owner needs to be aware of everything that happens between their dogs/bitches and be ready to intervene before anything happens. Just as with horses, the owner can't afford to remain oblivious, whilst expecting everything to go smoothly. Having said that I'm sure that there will be some bitches, especially, that do not gel with others for various reasons. Maybe one reason that we don't have problems is that we almost invariably have litter sisters, then we have brought younger pairs into the pack with no trouble. We have also occasionally brought younger singletons in without problems.
 
I don't really do bitches but even with the boys I keep a close eye on interactions. First season and Christmas though so lots going on, am sure JB will have a handle on it.

As an aside, a vet nurse friend moved in with her vet bf-she had a lakeland terrier and he two working lab bitches-mother and daughter. The terrier was spayed, the labs were not. They had one nasty fight (the first and last one due to management) whereby the terrier was blamed and came off far worse-needing surgery. In all the interactions I saw afterwards, the terrier was constantly blamed for trying to start something but I have to say I had a different POV, it was the youngest lab bitch imho. I've had entire males (not mine) go off on my neutered males and I do think it 'upsets' (for lack of a better term) some animals.
 
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