First week into field restand Kevin is being......well Kevin....

[Sukistokes2]

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I shake my head and wonder ....what am I going to do with him?.......
Answers on a post card

 

[Asha]

Brillinat, he certainly looks very happy. Lovely paddock, my IDs would have grass envy if they saw that

 

[Casey76]

I know that PSSM isn't prevalent in British draught horses, but have you though about getting him tested? His canter is very tight behind, which was one of the reasons I got Tartine tested in the first place.

 

[scats]

He looks like he's having a fabulous time though.

Love the sloping paddocks, hopefully he will retain a bit of fitness while he's holidaying. Multiply that hi-jinx by about a hundred and you have my hooligan on a quiet day!

 

[ycbm]

I know that PSSM isn't prevalent in British draught horses, but have you though about getting him tested? His canter is very tight behind, which was one of the reasons I got Tartine tested in the first place.

I'm not sure this is correct. PSSM type one is not prevalent. I'm struggling to find it again, but I read about a study done with biopsy which found a 60% rate in Shires and Clydesdales.

'Monday morning disease' is a very old illness amongst British working horses, where they tie up on Monday because they had Sunday off work. Sounds very like PSSM to me.

I always recommend anyone with a heavy cross to test the diet. My Clyde x is as stiff as a board if he doesn't get Alcar and vitamin E.

 

[Sukistokes2]

I'm not sure this is correct. PSSM type one is not prevalent. I'm struggling to find it again, but I read about a study done with biopsy which found a 60% rate in Shires and Clydesdales.

'Monday morning disease' is a very old illness amongst British working horses, where they tie up on Monday because they had Sunday off work. Sounds very like PSSM to me.

I always recommend anyone with a heavy cross to test the diet. My Clyde x is as stiff as a board if he doesn't get Alcar and vitamin E.

I asked the vet and he did bloods and he said he would check for the G ( can't think of the word ) storage levels and Kev has tested clear. I did mention PSSM and the vet, who is a senior partner seemed clued up. He was surprised I was .

Your right he is tight behind, he had farrier today, Peter was so patient with him but he really played up. Poor Peter has only just come back in to work after being field rested himself.

I'm a bit down about him today. Peter felt around the lump and at first thought it was a sprung rib, then that Kev may have broken two ribs at some point. Peter mentioned the tumour word ( C) , it had crossed my mind. I had also thought abscess but normal white cell count.

I just want an answer, I can deal with the fall out and I will make sure his future is secure but an answer is still so far away and money is not endless as I'm redundant at the end of the school year.

Tell me more about Alcer and vet E?

Would it have made him so sore he bolted?

 

[horselady]

Someone looks very happy! I love his feathers, he is so handsome!

 

[ycbm]

I asked the vet and he did bloods and he said he would check for the G ( can't think of the word ) storage levels and Kev has tested clear. I did mention PSSM and the vet, who is a senior partner seemed clued up. He was surprised I was .

Your right he is tight behind, he had farrier today, Peter was so patient with him but he really played up. Poor Peter has only just come back in to work after being field rested himself.

I'm a bit down about him today. Peter felt around the lump and at first thought it was a sprung rib, then that Kev may have broken two ribs at some point. Peter mentioned the tumour word ( C) , it had crossed my mind. I had also thought abscess but normal white cell count.

I just want an answer, I can deal with the fall out and I will make sure his future is secure but an answer is still so far away and money is not endless as I'm redundant at the end of the school year.

Tell me more about Alcer and vet E?

Would it have made him so sore he bolted?

Yes, my Clyde ex's go-to evasion that alerted me to the fact he had grown into having issues was bolting into transitions or bolting away when work got too hard.

I don't think it's glycogen in the blood that is the issue, it's the glycogen that they are storing in their muscles. Apart from the gene test that's now been marketed, the only way I'm aware of to tell if a horse has it is a muscle biopsy.

Alcar is available on eBay at £36 a kilo. For Kevin, I would feed him 15g a day, so that would last two months. Then you need vitamin E in a high dose. I think the recommendation is to start with 12,000iu a day. But that has to be natural, the synthetic stuff also works but only at a double dose rate. The cheapest way to feed vitamin E at the moment is Equimins oil. Powder is available on eBay. I have managed to stabilise mine on 7,500 in winter and 5,000 in summer.

That, together with a low sugar diet, sorts mine out. Bolting stops, bum muscles stay soft, objecting to his girth stops and he's a happy horse.

As far as i know, the diet is harmless, and you would know in two weeks or less if it has helped.

 

[Bojingles]

I love Kevin. Especially his flares

 

[FfionWinnie]

Blood tests are inconclusive because a PSSM horse can have completely normal bloods (especially if in light or no work). High CK and AST would alert you to the fact there's likely to be an issue but the opposite isn't true.

I think it's very common in many breeds. Testing is however not common enough and leads people to think they haven't got a problem.

Also there are likely to be plenty of myopathies yet to be discovered. I think they will explain performance problems in many cases because they go hand in hand with other issues - for instance if a horse is constantly saving itself because of muscle pain it ends up with SI pain and so on. How many horses have behavioural problems or quirks that are explained away as breed or whatever when in actual fact are probably down to constant low level pain which increases under the wrong situation.

 

[Leo Walker]

Blood tests are inconclusive because a PSSM horse can have completely normal bloods (especially if in light or no work). High CK and AST would alert you to the fact there's likely to be an issue but the opposite isn't true.

I think it's very common in many breeds. Testing is however not common enough and leads people to think they haven't got a problem.

Also there are likely to be plenty of myopathies yet to be discovered. I think they will explain performance problems in many cases because they go hand in hand with other issues - for instance if a horse is constantly saving itself because of muscle pain it ends up with SI pain and so on. How many horses have behavioural problems or quirks that are explained away as breed or whatever when in actual fact are probably down to constant low level pain which increases under the wrong situation.

I'm glad you commented. I commented on a previous post saying you had had a blood test done that would show muscle myopathies, but it seems its not that clear cut.

How long would you need to give high dose vitamin E for before you saw an improvement. I dont think mine has an issue, but it is something that has niggled at me from the start so I did the vitamin E thing for 2 weeks and saw no difference so ruled it out. To be fair, mine has no issues now, and has improved beyond measure, but I'd hate to think there was an issue and I'd just improved all the other stuff to the point it was sub clinical!

 

[DabDab]

Sorry to say, but even allowing for the draughty all-front-end-and-nothing-behind syndrome, the way that Kevin canters I would chew my own arm off if he didn't have pssm or some other myopathy.
Despite intending to kick up his heels and really go for it, his whole body looks almost frozen in motion - that's not just weakness, he doesn't look lame, and there's no obvious compensation (not to say that there definitely isn't one, just that it doesn't really show here)

 

[Goldenstar]

Your just trying field rest no diagnostics were done ?
It's very hard because if you are not insured it can be expensive .
He looks fairly 'not right ' to me .
If he were mine I would want to at least X-ray and scan the hocks .

 

[FfionWinnie]

I'm glad you commented. I commented on a previous post saying you had had a blood test done that would show muscle myopathies, but it seems its not that clear cut.

How long would you need to give high dose vitamin E for before you saw an improvement. I dont think mine has an issue, but it is something that has niggled at me from the start so I did the vitamin E thing for 2 weeks and saw no difference so ruled it out. To be fair, mine has no issues now, and has improved beyond measure, but I'd hate to think there was an issue and I'd just improved all the other stuff to the point it was sub clinical!

I had a blood test which suggested there could be a myopathy in a horse I vetted, but my own PSSM horse has at times had totally normal results so while it can tell you there's something to investigate, blood testing (unless it's genetic testing!) doesn't conclusively tell you either way. If the vet really does think he can simply test for glycogen in the blood I would be getting a new vet!

Impossible to say about vit e. It's something that does no harm, so worth trying for a long period and not expecting much of an obvious difference because it can take a long time to get levels up and even longer for the horse to improve. It's not a miracle and doesn't work alone without the right management along side, for these horses.

This is the time of year just before the grass is growing, that vitamin e is lowest and also, many of the types who have PSSM are also breeds which are grass restricted anyway so may never get a decent amount naturally. If feeding vit e it needs to be natural e without additives. Don't use anything like selenivite e as it's full of sugar is synthetic e and in too small a dose to actually do anything anyway (you would have to over dose to get required amount and then you are poisoning them with the selenium)

 

[Sussexbythesea]

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I shake my head and wonder ....what am I going to do with him?.......
Answers on a post card

Absolutely gorgeous - love it!

My friends horse has dropped weight similarly and blood test showed she was anaemic with a low white cell count. Vet thinks she had a virus at some point and is taking awhile to get over it. There are no other symptoms and she is full of beans. Just seen his white cell was normal.

 

[Sukistokes2]

Your just trying field rest no diagnostics were done ?
It's very hard because if you are not insured it can be expensive .
He looks fairly 'not right ' to me .
If he were mine I would want to at least X-ray and scan the hocks .

I know what you mean but he is not showing enough that the vet can pinpoint WHERE to start. Yes I am not insured but money is not stopping this happening, the vet is saying do this, before we do that and as I'm paying him and he is the expert then surely it's worth going with him and his advice? I have had an awful couple of days worrying about Kevin, lots of advice all of it contradicting , I have to choose a route, make a plan and stick to it or I will go mental. I want to x ray and scan the whole of the horse NOW but as the vet said, even if we find something it might not be the something we are looking for ******bangs head off wall*******

 

[Sukistokes2]

Absolutely gorgeous - love it!

My friends horse has dropped weight similarly and blood test showed she was anaemic with a low white cell count. Vet thinks she had a virus at some point and is taking awhile to get over it. There are no other symptoms and she is full of beans. Just seen his white cell was normal.

Yes, it is , red count is low, I'm looking for some beetroots for him

 

[Sukistokes2]

Ok, I've been reading up, I'm now more confused then ever, so much contradiction on this subject. No wonder the vets confused , i sure am.

Let's say Kev is PSSM , what do I do now?

He is fed Fibre only
He is on good grass( I can't work out if that's good. ) he is out
How do you guys manage your horses?
Tell me what I NEED to do
Tell what I MIGHT do
Tell me what I MUST NOT do

HELP!

 

[Sukistokes2]

Please can I have a link to the Alcar power please, not sure what I'm looking for......can I take it to.....will it make me lose weight and burn fat?

 

[ycbm]

Please can I have a link to the Alcar power please, not sure what I'm looking for......can I take it to.....will it make me lose weight and burn fat?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201402419972


It might make you bulk up muscle! It tastes quite nice, like sherbet.

 

[ycbm]

Ok, I've been reading up, I'm now more confused then ever, so much contradiction on this subject. No wonder the vets confused , i sure am.

Let's say Kev is PSSM , what do I do now?

He is fed Fibre only
He is on good grass( I can't work out if that's good. ) he is out
How do you guys manage your horses?
Tell me what I NEED to do
Tell what I MIGHT do
Tell me what I MUST NOT do

HELP!

Out is good. Grass might not be, you would need to play that by ear. He needs vitamin E too.

I have two type two. One copes very well with very intermittent work, the other doesn't.

Must not box rest.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Mine tied up once last year.
Both parents are type one negative as to be registered breeding Appaloosas they have to be tested.
You can do the tail test for type one and it's about £30 ish.

With mine as both parents are type one negative vet didn't do the muscle biopsy as it's very invasive and he has only tied up once so we put him on high does vit e.
I have a fussy eater so I can't feed him oil as he doesn't like the texture.
He gets dengie meadow grass, speedi beet and 10,000 iu of vit e a day and I use the natural vit e that's in a powered form from progressive earth.
He has improved no end on this, with in three weeks I started noticing a difference.
I also make sure he has a very good warm up and warm down, lots of rests in his main work and he is kept warm.

I will also have a look at the alcar link ycmb put up as have been thinking about adding it.


Also slightly hi jacking, ymcb would a pssm horse he hyper sensitive over his skin?

 

[ycbm]

I would say that neither of mine are hyper sensitive and but it's a documented symptom if you Google it.

 

[Leo Walker]

I take Alcar as its good for diabetics. It tastes like sherbet! Sharp and sweet at the same time

 

[Goldenstar]

Your just trying field rest no diagnostics were done ?
It's very hard because if you are not insured it can be expensive .
He looks fairly 'not right ' to me .
If he were mine I would want to at least X-ray and scan the hocks .

What's he had done in the way of flexion tests and nerve blocking?

 

[ycbm]

I take Alcar as its good for diabetics. It tastes like sherbet! Sharp and sweet at the same time

I didn't know that I only taste it to make sure it's the real deal if I use a new supplier.

 

[Sukistokes2]

What's he had done in the way of flexion tests and nerve blocking?

The vet came out and spent over an hour with us. He spent time going over the horse including flexion tests , thehirse was fine. I didn't know Kev's leg could go that high, horse was trotted out. The horse was then lunged both without and then with tack , the horse was then ridden.
I showed vet the lump, I talked about PSSM,

Vet had a think and decided horse was injured and needed 3/4 weeks rest in field. If not sound by then further investigation would be needed.
Chiro vet sent emails detailing work she'd done.
He has not replied to her , she of course will not speak about him, although she recommended him in the first place.

 

[Sukistokes2]

I didn't know that I only taste it to make sure it's the real deal if I use a new supplier.

Mmmmm sounds lovely, it's on its way,

Now which equiminis oil am I buying?

I know I'm a pain but it's very confusing

Thank you for your help.

 

[Goldenstar]

The vet came out and spent over an hour with us. He spent time going over the horse including flexion tests , thehirse was fine. I didn't know Kev's leg could go that high, horse was trotted out. The horse was then lunged both without and then with tack , the horse was then ridden.
I showed vet the lump, I talked about PSSM,

Vet had a think and decided horse was injured and needed 3/4 weeks rest in field. If not sound by then further investigation would be needed.
Chiro vet sent emails detailing work she'd done.
He has not replied to her , she of course will not speak about him, although she recommended him in the first place.

Ok if he's not right after the rest and the PSSM route goes no where I would start by scanning the suspensories in the hocks .
I have seen horses who turnout to have psd trotting way from flexions ok .
And there's still the lump to consider .

 

[Sukistokes2]

Ok if he's not right after the rest and the PSSM route goes no where I would start by scanning the suspensories in the hocks .
I have seen horses who turnout to have psd trotting way from flexions ok .
And there's still the lump to consider .

Your very right.....there is always the lump!!