Fit vs fat for showing

Lydiamae

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I currently show my trad boy inhand, aiming for ridden at the start of next season when he is a 5 yr old.

I have seen lots of different horses and ponies in shows, ridden and in hand, who do awfully well, but to me the look fat? My boy isn't fat, I am actually super pleased with his weight at the moment, he looks well but not fat. I am too paranoid about laminitis catching us! I keep him fit, he has varies light work 4 or 5 times a week and is fed saracen show improver cubes, hi fi original and general purpose supplement with adlib hay.

Please describe to me how you see show horses. Should they be fit or fat? What is the difference in a judges eyes? Can they be both?

I want to continue to do as well as we have been locally, at county, but I don't want judges comments to say he lacks condition, when he is a body score of 3 out of 5.

Thanks in advance
 

be positive

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The one here is worked 5 or 6 days a week, is fed a handful of chop, soaked hay and a few blades of grass if he can find them, he is not yet fully fit but will be fit enough to do a ode by mid season, they have to be fit enough to show themselves well in the ring, canter and gallop without falling in a heap so the best are fitter than they may seem at first glance, good muscle tone and a well built up topline is what is desirable not blubber and a decent judge can tell the difference.
 

ihatework

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Of course they should be fit and not fat. But an individuals interpretation of what constitutes those criteria vary wildly.

I can guarantee you that some top class show horses I would class as obese, but their producers will swear they are fit and in show condition!

ETA: it is possible to 'condition' a horse that is body score 3 - but that comes from laying down muscle, which does take time, and on a 5yo just think long term
 
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amandaco2

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Of course they should be fit and not fat. But an individuals interpretation of what constitutes those criteria vary wildly.

I can guarantee you that some top class show horses I would class as obese, but their producers will swear they are fit and in show condition!

ETA: it is possible to 'condition' a horse that is body score 3 - but that comes from laying down muscle, which does take time, and on a 5yo just think long term


Agreed!
 

catroo

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It is possible to be fat and fit, and in my opinion lots of hunters and cobs in the show ring are. Fit enough to do the job well but carrying more weight than I'd like to see.

Not all are like this and I do think it's getting better over time.

Concentrate on building good muscle tone and feed quality feed in proportion to the work load and horses condition.

Pop a picture up and I'm sure people would advise on weight
 

JFTDWS

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It is possible to be fat and fit, and in my opinion lots of hunters and cobs in the show ring are. Fit enough to do the job well but carrying more weight than I'd like to see.

Not all are like this and I do think it's getting better over time.

Indeed - I think many of the horses in the ring are fit enough to show well enough, but are grossly obese. It's disgraceful and I am saddened every time I see these horses winning.

That said, I am increasingly seeing ponies placing and winning in big classes and being surprised that they look really rather good. I do think the tides are turning.
 
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Ah now see your showing at local level where the majority of people think their horses just need to be as fat as possible! The higher up the showing ladder you go the more you realise that yes the horses are very well covered but there is also a good TopLine and a decent set of muscles underneath.

That's the difference between pro's and amatuers.
 

JFTDWS

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It's the lard coatings over the muscle of [some of] the pro horses I find most disappointing, EKW. They really ought to know better and set a better example...
 

ester

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Fit, because usually there is more important stuff I am doing than showing on the side and well when you plan on keeping them forever them being healthy is more important than what anyone thinks.

Fwiw no one has ever suggested my fit welsh with ribs showing needed to put on any weight and I would also say of what I have seen recently a lot is actually pretty good these days, natives have definitely improved at least. I do think people get told to add weight but if the judge actually looked at what they were looking at little more they might see that the horse actually just doesn't structurally have the depth say a good cob would have, yes you can go some way to generate it but probably best not to ;). A friends young pony is an excellent example, he looked well hench shown as a 2/3yo, as a 5yo he really is anything but!

EKW why do the decent set of muscles have to be underneath much? :p
 

JFTDWS

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I've been told to put weight on F before, ester :( I've also had other - imo better - judges who've said he's fine at a lighter weight than those who've told him to put weight on. I roll my eyes and do my own thing... And rarely stray into the show ring anyway!
 

cundlegreen

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Don't get me started on this, especially the show cobs! However, I've been doing RIHS workers this season with my little mare, who looks in perfect "show" condition, ie, plenty of fat on her. However, she is out eventing, and won her ON section inside the time recently, so is plenty fit enough. She always looks a bit of a porker!
 

only_me

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Tbh my stance has changed over the past year. Having started running to loose weight yet not as much as wanted I've become what I've always feared. A fit, fat runner!!

If you watch marathons or half marathons every runner is fit - but vary in size. Some are sticks (tbs) and some are significantly rounder (cobs).

I think majority of show cobs are just that - fit fat runners. They might be carrying a bit extra pounds but still do the distance :p
 

Nici

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Tbh my stance has changed over the past year. Having started running to loose weight yet not as much as wanted I've become what I've always feared. A fit, fat runner!!

If you watch marathons or half marathons every runner is fit - but vary in size. Some are sticks (tbs) and some are significantly rounder (cobs).

I think majority of show cobs are just that - fit fat runners. They might be carrying a bit extra pounds but still do the distance :p

That's a great comparison! It comes down to metabolism then, I guess?
 

ihatework

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That's a great comparison! It comes down to metabolism then, I guess?

Partly.
But also food, excessive rugging etc.
I would argue they are marathon runners though, maybe fit enough to lug their lard round a show ring but very few will be fit enough for a decent days work.

Now I don't have an issue with the natural fatties of the horse whose owners are aware and taking relevant management precautions. But I'm afraid in the showing world it appears much more acceptable to have a fat horse, and often encouraged.
Hopefully it's getting better.
 

conniegirl

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Partly.
But also food, excessive rugging etc.
I would argue they are marathon runners though, maybe fit enough to lug their lard round a show ring but very few will be fit enough for a decent days work.

Now I don't have an issue with the natural fatties of the horse whose owners are aware and taking relevant management precautions. But I'm afraid in the showing world it appears much more acceptable to have a fat horse, and often encouraged.
Hopefully it's getting better.

Perhaps you should look more closely at the hunting field. A lot of top show hunters and riding horses are taken hunting regularly. I know plenty of ponies who show and event (one even came second at Hoys)
 

AdorableAlice

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The one here is worked 5 or 6 days a week, is fed a handful of chop, soaked hay and a few blades of grass if he can find them, he is not yet fully fit but will be fit enough to do a ode by mid season, they have to be fit enough to show themselves well in the ring, canter and gallop without falling in a heap so the best are fitter than they may seem at first glance, good muscle tone and a well built up topline is what is desirable not blubber and a decent judge can tell the difference.

Agreed, and here is one that was kept fit throughout his career. He did medium dressage alongside his showing, loved his hacking and pleasure rides. Was always turned out daily but was a bit of a wuss if it rained and would put himself in his shelter. He was strappped almost daily and certainly April to October. He thrived on haylage, spillers pony nuts, speedibeet and a cup of linseed plus plenty of work.


I enjoy a bit of showing, but I do think many are too heavy, especially the poorer quality horses who owners get fat to try and hide faults. If the conformation is good and the movement straight they just need to be hard and topped not flabby and wheezing.

Home1-720x0_zpswaf6rs4j.jpg
 
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ihatework

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Perhaps you should look more closely at the hunting field. A lot of top show hunters and riding horses are taken hunting regularly. I know plenty of ponies who show and event (one even came second at Hoys)

Last top horses I saw out hunting managed to ponce around at the meet and puff quietly at the back for an hour before going home. One of the countries top show producers
 

ester

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Of course it was only 2 days ago there was news from the university of birmingham that fat but fit is not really a thing. I think you may be fitter/active but still with long term health issues.
quickest link that came up because I heard it.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...alth-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

I am sometimes surprised how long some show horses are able to canter round a big ring, so they must have some fitness underneath, but again it is sometimes underneath too much.
 

Lydiamae

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Thank you all so much and I am glad most of you are of the same opinion I am! As an owner, and indeed he is my great pal, I am ultimately more concerned with his long term health. He is fed a good quality and kept a healthy weight so I will just stick with what im doing and see where showing takes us!
 

conniegirl

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Last top horses I saw out hunting managed to ponce around at the meet and puff quietly at the back for an hour before going home. One of the countries top show producers

Well the ones I know will happily stay the day.

The pony that was 2nd at HOYS won a local ODE 2 weeks later, another pony I know came reserve champion at HOYS but 3 months earlier had done a 200 mile ride for charity!
 

honetpot

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I sometimes show my Connemara young stock, just for the outing. M&M are notorious for placing fat ponies which are carrying far to much weight for their age. I had for more success in sport pony classes, I have been last in the breed class and first in a huge young stock class on the same day.
I went to a R of R study day, one of the slides was a joint of beef with a layer of fat, to demonstrate the different the difference between muscle and fat. The fat covers the muscle, any one who has seen a rare breed pig after slaughter would see that if you over feed you can have an inch and a half of fat covering its back, feeding more doesn't make muscle.
 

cundlegreen

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Of course it was only 2 days ago there was news from the university of birmingham that fat but fit is not really a thing. I think you may be fitter/active but still with long term health issues.
quickest link that came up because I heard it.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...alth-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

I am sometimes surprised how long some show horses are able to canter round a big ring, so they must have some fitness underneath, but again it is sometimes underneath too much.

Interestingly, when stripped off at a recent RIHS workers class, mine was the only one not to be sweating under her saddle, and this was on a chilly day. says it all really.....
 

Nici

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Agreed, and here is one that was kept fit throughout his career. He did medium dressage alongside his showing, loved his hacking and pleasure rides. Was always turned out daily but was a bit of a wuss if it rained and would put himself in his shelter. He was strappped almost daily and certainly April to October. He thrived on haylage, spillers pony nuts, speedibeet and a cup of linseed plus plenty of work.


I enjoy a bit of showing, but I do think many are too heavy, especially the poorer quality horses who owners get fat to try and hide faults. If the conformation is good and the movement straight they just need to be hard and topped not flabby and wheezing.

Home1-720x0_zpswaf6rs4j.jpg

They both look great! Is yours the one on the right?
 
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Interestingly, when stripped off at a recent RIHS workers class, mine was the only one not to be sweating under her saddle, and this was on a chilly day. says it all really.....

That proves nothing really. I took a fully fit, running on Sunday, racehorse out for an hour's walking hack yesterday and he came back with sweat under his saddle and girth. Some horses are naturally warmer than others, some naturally colder.
 

AdorableAlice

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They both look great! Is yours the one on the right?

Yes the bright bay middle weight. The heavy is Robert Oliver's Loughern Dancing Lord and for the person that mentioned size, he is over 18 hands, mine looks tiny stood next him but is actually 17.2.

The lack of or excess of sweating mentioned can't really be used as a judge of fitness in my view. Mental state has a lot to do with it as does way of going. The horse in the picture was Mr.Cool throughout his career. He might have a warm girth area on a hot day after he had done 10 laps of a big ring like the Royal, and the only time he ever got hot was when bag pipes were playing in a bandstand alongside the ring, and even that was mental stress not physical.

As EKW says you can have a mega fit horse without a pinch of fat on him that will be awash with sweat and perhaps EKW can answer this one - why do some horses get so white with sweat when others who are just as hot not get lathered ? My guess would be something to do with amounts of salts being lost ?
 

honetpot

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Agreed, and here is one that was kept fit throughout his career. He did medium dressage alongside his showing, loved his hacking and pleasure rides. Was always turned out daily but was a bit of a wuss if it rained and would put himself in his shelter. He was strappped almost daily and certainly April to October. He thrived on haylage, spillers pony nuts, speedibeet and a cup of linseed plus plenty of work.


I enjoy a bit of showing, but I do think many are too heavy, especially the poorer quality horses who owners get fat to try and hide faults. If the conformation is good and the movement straight they just need to be hard and topped not flabby and wheezing.

Home1-720x0_zpswaf6rs4j.jpg
I hope my yearling ends up half as good as one of these.
 

AdorableAlice

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I hope my yearling ends up half as good as one of these.

Of course your yearling will, because you will raise him properly with good manners and educated nicely. Good luck for the future, there is nothing nicer than raising your own and not having to try to rectify other peoples mistakes.

ps, you have a good eye, the big horse is by the very best ID stallion that Ireland has produced in decades (the now late Crosstown Dancer) and the smaller one has very successful blood on the sire line (I Love You/ Alme Z). Sadly the mould has gone for both of these horses.
 
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