Fitness at lower level eventing

jess_asterix

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
4,313
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
I was fence judging at Stafford yesterday and I was at an early fence where I could see both the start and finish.

Horses were all starting well and personally the ground on the XC wasn't TOO horrendous but as they were coming home up the hill to the 16/17/18th fence some horses looked absolutely bloody knackered?!!!

Obviously there were competitors who had got their horses more than fit enough and finished full of running but a large number looked like they would have broke to trot if the riders stopped kicking!

Now I don't know if I am being abit harsh so early on in the season but for me personally I make sure both Herbie and I are fit enough for the level we are competing at so that we BOTH finish feeling good.

Is this not what is expected? Maybe I take fitness too seriously??!

Opinions to whether I am right/wrong please!
 

ester

Not slacking multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
60,198
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
have two that event on the yard, one has an honest horse who is really not fit enough to do the job. The other is plenty fit enough.
 

tiga71

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2011
Messages
768
Visit site
I am going to do some hunter trials and ODE on my boy this year and am really paranoid about him being fit enough. I have also been fence judging and was on the last two jumps at one event and was shocked at how some of the horses were faring at the end.

I do endurance so he is very fit and can trot and canter for hours in an endurance way, but I am now doing interval training to improve his stamina at speed with the jumps.

I would never take my horse round if he wasn't fit enough as i don't want to break him. Going over solid jumps on a tired horse is too risky for me. I would expect my trainer to tell me if she thought we weren't fit enough to go round safely.
 

glamourpuss

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 January 2006
Messages
2,836
Visit site
Stafford is an event which always shows up where fitness isn't as good as it should be. It's maximum length & the hills are quite draining.
I've heard that the ground throughout the whole competition was very energy sapping (the dressage & SJ were incredibly muddy & tiring)
BUT on a horse buoyed up on adrenaline this might not have been apparent to the rider until that last hill towards home.

I'm sure there were a few horses that were desperately under prepared but I think on the whole most riders were just caught out by hard conditions at the start of the season.
 

chestnut cob

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 November 2004
Messages
14,996
Location
Shropshire
community.webshots.com
I did the 80 at Stafford on Fri. Was it the 100 yesterday?

I was pondering fitness over the weekend actually. I watched the finish of quite a few of the 80 competitors (didn't stay to watch the 90s) and I was surprised at how many horses looked totally done in. Mine turned out to be fitter than I thought he was, as once I'd walked Stafford I was a bit worried he might not be fit enough. I have almost nowhere to do proper fast work, though all of our hacking is up/down v steep hills, so he is trotted slowly around those twice a week. Clearly it has got him fitter than I realised because he didn't want to pull up after our XC. He stormed up the hills. I wanted to take it easy because of the ground but he pulled all the way around and was looking for another fence after we went through the finish line.

As GP says, the ground in the SJ and DR was horrendous. The DR warmup took more out of my horse than I expected, but I must have got him fitter than I realised because he was still full of running at the end of the XC. Also, he liked the ground, quite simply, and I'm sure a lot of horses really wouldn't have done. The take off/ landings were pretty churned up and deep by the time I went round and it did make it harder. I can only imagine how bad it was by yesterday morning, especially since they abandoned the afternoon classes.
 

Dusty M Yeti

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 February 2014
Messages
1,364
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
I think a lot also depends on the horse. I event up to novice on a half-TB who is quite difficult to get fit. I have access to flat gallops and hill gallops locally and lots of hacking from home but he gets really sour if I use them too much and totally un-motivated! I tend to use early season runs as fittening runs as, with jumps infront of him and the adrenaline of competing, he is a different horse. That said, I would never push him beyond his limit and never go for the time in early season.

Hunting is the best preparation for my boy but because i want to event over the summer I am picky about ground conditions for hunting and therefore haven't done much this winter.

I think horses fitness should always be taken seriously and prepared as much as possible but sometimes its only competition runs that'll give them the extra they need for more runs if that makes sense?
 

TarrSteps

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 January 2007
Messages
10,891
Location
Surrey
Visit site
I'm always a bit surprised by these discussions. It's not that difficult to gauge fitness - books on the subject abound - and can't be a surprise that horses (and riders) need to be reasonably fit to event, so I think i assume if horses and/or riders look unfit on the day the riders either don't want to know or don't care. As said, it's easy to be caught out by particularly draining conditions but if it's happening often with no adjustments to routine or preparation, then I assume it's no surprise to the rider either.

I'm not sure it's possible to rely on an instructor either, especially if you use multiple people and don't see them often. As a source of information, definitely, but the person best placed to gauge fitness is the person doing the fitness work!
 

zaminda

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 August 2008
Messages
2,333
Location
Somerset
Visit site
I don't think it is just eventing where this is a problem. I have overtaken people walking on a hunter trial course, and seen people whose horses stop in the SJ ring, because they aren't really fit enough, and are less forgiving when tired. It is a particular bug bear of mine. I do understand some horses are harder to get fit than others, but surely you know roughly how fit your horse is.
 

kassieg

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2013
Messages
1,451
Visit site
I never understand why people dont consider fitness & think they can wing it through 3 phases

Its the most obvious thing to me tbh its more important than perfecting the dressage test etc

I'm only doing 80 & 90 this season maybe 100 at the end & she gets so much fitness work!
 

wench

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 December 2005
Messages
10,260
Visit site
I think sometimes you possibly have to give prop the Benifit of the doubt .

Few years ago I took my horse to a hunter trial. It was a longish course and he was knackered by the end, he wasn't fit enough. At the time I was only riding once in a blue moon due to work commitments.

He wasn't fit, as his sharer hadn't been riding him for about a month, nor had the person I paid to exercise him. He should have been fit, but neither of these people told me they hadn't ridden him for a while, so off I went thinking he was fit, and he wasn't...
 

LEC

Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Joined
22 July 2005
Messages
10,860
www.youtube.com
Sometimes it's not that simple. I am riding a horse which is super fit it does several very hard days hunting but it's not used to doing Xc and so it sits on your hands and the further round the course you go the more downhill it goes. It just needs to learn to sit up and it will with time and experience but it does not make a great picture, yet the horse is plenty fit enough. Same with green horses, it can really tax their minds even if their body is fit.
 

ester

Not slacking multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
60,198
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
the one I know that isn't that fit, isn't fit due to veterinary investigations/rest over the winter. Owner appears to think it was kept in work and needs minimal work to event - I'm not sure she cares so long as she can go out and event and enjoy herself. I don't understand the rush given that there is plenty of time to develop proper fitness before the end of the season.
 

paulineh

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 July 2008
Messages
2,111
Location
Hampshire / Berkshire
Visit site
-/When I was doing my Sports Therapy / Physiotherapy course the first question the lecturer asked us was to define Fitness. Each person in the class came up with the same answer as each were involved in some form of sport. The answer from the lecturer was "Fitness is defined depending on what you are doing. Example, A housewife is fit enough to be able to care for the family and a Marathon runner is fit enough to run 26 miles". "A Flat racer against a National Hunt horse". One is for speed and the other for stamina.

An Eventer's fitness is different to that of an Endurance horse or a hunter against a show horse. An Eventer doing 3DE needs a different form of fitness to that of one doing 1Day Events.

As well as the horse being fit it is essential that the rider is fit too. It is no use having a fit horse and an unfit rider.

When judging which events to do early season sometimes means that more work has to be done.

With my Endurance horses I find that they hold a basic fitness from one year to the next. My basic training is a mixture of hills (Very good for getting the horse to work under you) distance and speed , with some schooling thrown in, although I tend to do my school work while out on a hack. I find that if there is a local all-weather gallops available in your area they provide a safe to do any fast work and because they are all-Weather then can be used through out the winter too. I tend not to totally rest my horses once our season has finished. I will change what they are doing and ride less times a week.
 

chocolategirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 June 2012
Messages
1,292
Visit site
I was fence judging at Stafford yesterday and I was at an early fence where I could see both the start and finish. Horses were all starting well and personally the ground on the XC wasn't TOO horrendous but as they were coming home up the hill to the 16/17/18th fence some horses looked absolutely bloody knackered?!!! Obviously there were competitors who had got their horses more than fit enough and finished full of running but a large number looked like they would have broke to trot if the riders stopped kicking! Now I don't know if I am being abit harsh so early on in the season but for me personally I make sure both Herbie and I are fit enough for the level we are competing at so that we BOTH finish feeling good. Is this not what is expected? Maybe I take fitness too seriously??! Opinions to whether I am right/wrong please!
i take fitness extremely seriously when it comes to getting my daughters pony fit for eventing as I am worried that if he isn't fit enough he will get tired and make mistakes which could potentially be catastrophic. But I don't think it's just fitness, the right feeding regime plays a big part too. Sometimes horse finish badly due to lack of energy as well as lack of fitness don't you think?? My daughter take a our pony cantering in the fields at least 3 times a week when preparing for an event, he is hacked at least twice a week and she will have a weekly flat work/jumping lesson as well. If I am not happy with his fitness I wouldn't let him run. We chose to withdraw after the stressage at stafford, as it would have taken a Herculean effort to get round the show jumping and cross country sections and so early on the season we didn't want to risk him. Personally I don't think you can take fitness TOO seriously! Last season he finished full of running at every event we competed at and the temperatures at some were very high. We knew our regime had worked very well 😊
 

Honey08

Waffled a lot!
Joined
7 June 2010
Messages
19,005
Location
north west
Visit site
Even without the deep going (and the xc sounded the best bit re ground), Stafford is always an event that shows up lack of fitness. Its quite hilly and quite long for a 90, and I think a good few people who are not used to hills stand out.

I agree with LEC too, the couple of times that my horse had finished a bit tired has been because she has been leaning and fighting too much on the way round. If I can get her into a good forward pace and not have to check too much she is much better (Stafford was always a good course for that, and she is a hill monster due to living in the Pennines).
 

MadisonBelle

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 July 2007
Messages
571
Visit site
Same with green horses, it can really tax their minds even if their body is fit.

This happened to me at our first few events. Her body was fit enough but bring on the fences judges and cars which you only get out competing and her brain couldn't cope and she just died on me 2 fences from home..not literally I hasten to add!!!!.. I was mortified and wanted to explain why to everyone in case they thought I was an idiot who hadn't got a fit enough horse :(
 

TarrSteps

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 January 2007
Messages
10,891
Location
Surrey
Visit site
This happened to me at our first few events. Her body was fit enough but bring on the fences judges and cars which you only get out competing and her brain couldn't cope and she just died on me 2 fences from home..not literally I hasten to add!!!!.. I was mortified and wanted to explain why to everyone in case they thought I was an idiot who hadn't got a fit enough horse :(

That sort of thing happens to everyone, so you just nurse the horse along or pull up and live to fight another day. It does horses no harm at all to be tired once and awhile and for people to learn how to ride a tired horse. The concern is more when it's pretty clear from the outset that fitness is an issue and/or the rider seems unaware the horse is struggling. It's more often in these situations that riders say they 'meant' to ride more or that their horse is an exception to the rules.
 

Darremi

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 April 2012
Messages
650
Location
Wonderland
Visit site
I think fitness problems are getting worse generally because people are taking more native/draught/heavy cross horses round 80/90/100. Obviously they struggle physically to gallop for a couple of miles and if they are not given a lot of work at home they will be tired going round the XC.
My horse is near full WB and events at Intermediate. He goes cantering 2 x per week.

I think cantering 2 x per week (obviously lower intensity cantering for these levels) for a chunky type of eventer would be fine.

I always like to compare eventing to hunting. Lots of heavier horses go hunting twice a week and they are super fit. They can do it with the work. But people are not doing enough at lower levels.
 

Mike007

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2009
Messages
8,222
Visit site
There is more to it than simply fitness. Being able to read the going is as important as looking at the fences. The ability to know how hard you can push a horse at any point only comes with experience . Once a horse "blows up " you cannot do much about it. Stopping is usualy best. A combination of trickey fences and heavy going can simply push even a fit horse beyond aerobic work and into the anaerobic zone.The problem is more obvious at lower levels because rider experience is also generaly lower. Someone here refered dismissively to a rider walking during a hunter trial . I would say ,good for them ,why is a rosette worth caneing ones horse.If the horse needs a gentle ride and the rider is happy to compete and simply take part ,well good for them . Eventing is obviously a lot more serious ,if only from the safety point of view a fit horse is essential, but rider knowlege can only come from experience.
 

Laafet

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 June 2006
Messages
4,592
Location
Suffolk
adventuresinblackandwhite.co.uk
It's not just a horse fitness problem but a rider fitness problem. My horse is very fit at the moment, think hunting fit. My fitness however is not all that great, I blew up at Isleham (apart from the sight issue I had that day too), once I was struggling to breath then I felt like I was hindering my horse. I have seen a lot of other very unfit riders too.
 

Mike007

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2009
Messages
8,222
Visit site
It's not just a horse fitness problem but a rider fitness problem. My horse is very fit at the moment, think hunting fit. My fitness however is not all that great, I blew up at Isleham (apart from the sight issue I had that day too), once I was struggling to breath then I felt like I was hindering my horse. I have seen a lot of other very unfit riders too.
This was my point ,in a nutshell. You probably have plenty of stamina ,yet it counts for nothing once your blood oxygen level falls and the muscles start converting carbs to lactic acid. It would be an education to wire up a rider to study respiration rates and blood oxygen levels whilst going xc. I am only too well aware of how using ones core inhibits breathing. My right half of my diaphragm is paralysed due to a fall. I have to use my intercostal muscles to breathe from that lung . On a horse , strenuous riding simply blocks those muscles and i get into trouble pretty quick from lack of oxygen. This is of course an extreme case ,but it indicates to me that a lot of riders will be unwittingly restricting their breathing while jumping.
 

AliceCrail

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 March 2011
Messages
236
Location
Newmarket
Visit site
My personal take on it is that affiliated eventing is now open to everyone. This means that someone riding a native x, or heavy horse x, or whatever can compete. This is great, but I think the cost of a BE event means people want to get their money's worth.

If you do just UA events, you tend to stick to local ones, meaning you and your horse are used to the going. When people do BE, they tend to travel further, meaning they may meet going that they weren't expecting - heavy ground, hills etc. And at the lower levels, the horse is very much a hobby, and the rider more often a first generation horse owner. Which means everything is still being learnt.

My feed supplier and I were having a chat, and it seems terrifying how many make the mistake of thinking their horse is in hard work because they get ridden 5 days a week, not realising that 45mins quiet hacking, 30 mins easy schooling and doing a 2'6" showjumping is still light work. So I think it is easy to understand why people struggle with getting their horses fit. Lack of knowledge.

Perhaps some courses on this at local Riding Clubs, or run by BE would be beneficial?
 

zaminda

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 August 2008
Messages
2,333
Location
Somerset
Visit site
Yep, that would be me referring dismissively to someone walking on the XC course. The course in question is a VERY short easy hunter trial course, and they were local. The horse was simply not prepared, and to be quite honest shouldn't have been there. Oh, and they weren't even half way round and the going was perfect. On that occasion it really was a case of under preparation, which I find to be honest, verging on dangerous. I would like to say they were the only combination on the day to be like this, but there were a large number finishing looking absolutely done in.
 

TarrSteps

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 January 2007
Messages
10,891
Location
Surrey
Visit site
Yep, that would be me referring dismissively to someone walking on the XC course. The course in question is a VERY short easy hunter trial course, and they were local. The horse was simply not prepared, and to be quite honest shouldn't have been there. Oh, and they weren't even half way round and the going was perfect. On that occasion it really was a case of under preparation, which I find to be honest, verging on dangerous. I would like to say they were the only combination on the day to be like this, but there were a large number finishing looking absolutely done in.

Fair enough, but I think the point was, at that moment, better to walk than be still hammering the horse around. I agree, the rider putting his/her hand up might have been a better choice but there is such an emphasis at things like that on letting people complete, regardless, you can't really blame them. If they were walking jumps that's another matter but, again, whose job would it be to stop someone in that instance? If you're going to work on the libertarian principle of letting people make their own mistakes, you have to expect not everyone will make the right ones
 

MS123

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 September 2013
Messages
424
Visit site
My feed supplier and I were having a chat, and it seems terrifying how many make the mistake of thinking their horse is in hard work because they get ridden 5 days a week, not realising that 45mins quiet hacking, 30 mins easy schooling and doing a 2'6" showjumping is still light work. So I think it is easy to understand why people struggle with getting their horses fit. Lack of knowledge.

This is a really good point! And I think many assume that a routine like the one above should be classed as medium-hard work, when in fact, as AC said, is only light work. My girl follows a routine like this at the moment (crazy work hours), and I would like to get her eventing fit to start some ODE', aiming for 3 day too (low level), but I know she's nowhere near fit enough. I'd rather her be too fit than not fit enough, so if this means delaying our eventing debut, then so be it.
 

Darremi

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 April 2012
Messages
650
Location
Wonderland
Visit site
Fair enough, but I think the point was, at that moment, better to walk than be still hammering the horse around. I agree, the rider putting his/her hand up might have been a better choice but there is such an emphasis at things like that on letting people complete, regardless, you can't really blame them. If they were walking jumps that's another matter but, again, whose job would it be to stop someone in that instance? If you're going to work on the libertarian principle of letting people make their own mistakes, you have to expect not everyone will make the right ones

The reality is you should not be be entering in the first place if you have to walk round part of the course.

It is dangerous for the horse and rider as XC requires a good forward going canter, and it also disrupts the horses behind who have to negotiate a passing point.

If you have a baby who is remotely nappy at a lower level event, passing another horse half way round the course is not ideal and to be honest not very fair if the only reason you are passing is because the other is horse is not fit enough.
 

zaminda

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 August 2008
Messages
2,333
Location
Somerset
Visit site
There is also a horse welfare issue. My vet has said 80% of lameness cases they see (massive clinic) are at least partly due to the horse being overweight/not fit enough for what it is being asked to do. I was once at the clinic when someone came in, I thought the horse had been off for months, but it turned out it had been eventing that weekend, and been found to be lame on the Monday. Really not surprising given its weight. Im afraid this is something of a soapbox for me, and while I understand that people want to have fun, and should be allowed to wherever possible, I do think the horse must come first.
For what its worth, one of the people tried to refuse to let me past, but his horse stopped at the next fence. My horse carried on, but if I had been on a youngster I would have been very cross at the persons attitude!!
 

glamourpuss

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 January 2006
Messages
2,836
Visit site
It's interesting what the poster said above about affiliated events & riders going further afield, encountering terrain/going they just weren't prepared for.

My horse is fit. After a recent XC schooling session with an Olympic eventer I was warned not to push his fitness any more (he can be difficult to ride in the dressage & SJ ) HOWEVER having heard about the conditions at Stafford I think he would've struggled. Firstly being from East Angular he's not used to hills - I do try but there is very little around here. Also he's crap in mud.....but then that is why I didn't run at Stafford :D
 

TarrSteps

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 January 2007
Messages
10,891
Location
Surrey
Visit site
The reality is you should not be be entering in the first place if you have to walk round part of the course.

It is dangerous for the horse and rider as XC requires a good forward going canter, and it also disrupts the horses behind who have to negotiate a passing point.

If you have a baby who is remotely nappy at a lower level event, passing another horse half way round the course is not ideal and to be honest not very fair if the only reason you are passing is because the other is horse is not fit enough.

Well yes, of course. You know that and I know that. But it still doesn't answer the question of what to do with the person actually having that experience, especially if the rider is a grown up and competing in the sort of event where people expect to be allowed to continue, even if they have multiple refusals etc
 

Darremi

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 April 2012
Messages
650
Location
Wonderland
Visit site
Well yes, of course. You know that and I know that. But it still doesn't answer the question of what to do with the person actually having that experience, especially if the rider is a grown up and competing in the sort of event where people expect to be allowed to continue, even if they have multiple refusals etc

For the horse's sake a person in that situation should retire. Frankly it would be unfair and dangerous to continue with an exhausted horse. People have to remember animals are involved. They should not be allowed to push a tired horse simply because they want to finish.

Be Stewards have the power to pull somebody up who is on an exhausted horse.
 
Top