Fitting saddles

[GSD Woman]

When I was able to ride, back in the dark ages, it seems like no one worried about fitting saddles, testing for Cushing's, etc. When did it become popular? We used to go out, buy a saddle that was comfy for us and use padding for the horse unless it was obvious the saddle was too wide or narrow. I'm glad that has changed but when did it start? A fellow horse person at work and we were discussing the whole changes in horse keeping stuff. As she pointed out, back then we just accepted that some horses shed more and that one saddle was as good as the next as long as we were comfortable.

 

[splashgirl45]

when i bought my first horse i got a saddle from the local saddler and he came out and fitted it, that was in 1968 so i have always tried my best to have a properly fitted saddle. ...... we knew nothing about cushings and were under the impression that older horses and particularly ponies had thicker coats and we all assumed that they needed extra warmth. also horses didnt live as long because they were put down if they couldnt be kept sound.....i remember quite a few old ponies but very few old horses..

 

[GSD Woman]

splashgirl45,

Thanks for info on early saddle fitting. I wonder if it was something that happened at the ritzier barns and such. As I never had as much money as many people I had to do what I had to do.

 

[splashgirl45]

well i didnt have money and kept my horse at a riding school..as well as my full time job, i worked 2 evenings a week and all day sunday and used my horse as lead horse for 3 hours on sundays, so we both worked for part of our livery., otherwise i couldnt have afforded to keep him. but i made sure he had the best of everything and making sure he was comfortable was very important to me even if i lived on baked beans on toast every night...which did happen sometimes

 

[Cragrat]

We didn't have much money when I was a kid in the 70's, but we got a second hand saddle fitted to the pony , with not much consideration to the rider. The pony was kept fit, his weight didn't fluctuate much, and therefore the saddle fitted pretty much the rest of his ridden life with not much adjustment needed.

 

[GSD Woman]

I was a working boarder and helped feed, bring in, turn out, stuff like that. My horse had to live out year round. This was before it was desirable in my area. Some of the fields he lived in were more dirt/mud than grass. If I had known about saddle fitting I do believe that I would have done that.

Live and learn.

 

[SEL]

Even at the RS I worked at we did our best to have saddles fitted - although we also had these odd pads (cork?) that went underneath to help their backs. The Shetland I started riding on had a crupper to stop her saddle heading down her neck and you don't see those much now.

I remember ponies with curly coats. We thought cushings was a disease old horses just got and i have zero memory of medicating so no idea when that came in.

 

[cremedemonthe]

I started fitting saddles in 1987 and Cushings certainly wasn't an issue or even thought about then.

 

[sbloom]

Saddlers had some training in fitting saddles, so you'd go to the saddler in your village or town, they'd eye you and the horse up, and make you a saddle. We kept horses in more consistent work, though most would have three months off and people knew the basics of sticking a blanket or two under the saddle to begin with.

I think breeding horses has changed massively, they tend to be more overweight (and I do think there are some environmental and genetic marker/inheritance issues going on that contribute to this) and riders in many ways can get into the sport more easily. We ride different breeds, we breed for elasticity (which I'm afraid I think is leading us down a very dangerous, injury-prone path) yet we often don't know how to help those horses be strong and the right shape to do their jobs. And they don't get time off to recover, so back issues compound over time.

A 15 year old horse in work was very aged back then, now we expect their ridden career to continue maybe another decade, 50 years ago we'd not have expected them to live much longer than that. So just as we see more disease that occurs in older people, we see increasing conditions that relate to age.

 

[Jellymoon]

A Walsall saddler chappy once told me that back in the day, saddles were made with much flatter trees and were very simple without all the bucket seats and big knee rolls we expect now. They were handmade, often with serge panels. He said they weren’t very comfy for the riders and you had to learn to balance on them, but they were better for the horses. Nowadays, saddles are factory made more for the rider in mind, with curved trees, which are actually not good for the horses at all. He said. I don’t know if it’s true.
Anyway, back in the 80s, you had a saddle fitted by a master saddler (I think he was anyway!) for your new horse, and then you never saw him again!! Poor things. Thank goodness it’s different now.

 

[Lady Jane]

Science, research and the internet have changed the world. I have no idea when Cushings was 'identified' and I think horses had to put up with poorly fitting saddles. As others have said if there wasn't enough clearance, you just put more pads underneath. I'm sure many badly behaved horses were actually uncomfortable but we didn't know any better. Again, others have said, we are riding more highly bred horses who are more prone to injury and less tolerant of discomfort. So much has changed, some for the best and some for the worse

 

[AutumnDays]

Just musing after a friend's recent saddle fitting drama; how much of what a saddle fitter tells you is taken as gospel though? She had one saddler out to fit to her horse, the fitted saddle was duly purchased, but horse never seemed to go well under it. Another came out, checked it, said it didn't fit, so part exchanged the old for the new, same problem. Went and bought a generic adjustable saddle jobbie, horse going great! So is more differing professional opinions better, or creating more problems?

 

[Kaylum]

There are some terrible saddle fitters. My friend had an unfortunate experience of having one made. It did not fit she luckily got a physio to write a report on why it could not be used on a horse and got her money back.

All horses are different and generic saddles do not fit every horse but as a horse owner you should be able to see if there is a problem with a saddle fit which is basic BHS stage 1 material.

 

[TPO]

I think "back in the day" it was part ignorance and part lack of options.

As @sbloom has said horses tended to be of the same type and therefore shape. I would imagine at a gew decades ago there were no studies into the effects of saddle fitting. I was born the end of 82 and even I remember how common seeing horses with white withers and backs was and it appeared to be accepted as one of those things. Thankfully that seems to be hugely improved these days.

Again as @sbloom has said "back in the day" it was the norm to give horses approximately 12wks off every year. Hunters had the summer off and leisure/competition horses had thr winter off.

If you read good farrier texts like Hickmans or the more modern owners book (No foot no horse I think its called) the farrier authors all say that hooves need a break from shoes to recover. It was accepted as common knowledge that shoes comprised hooves and that 12wks out of them gave the hooves time to recover and grow out old nail holes. Hooves dont get that these days.

The Ferries are well known and respected farriers up here. They wrote an article for the horse section of The Scottish Farmer a few years ago. They wrote about the decline in hoof health related to wearing shoes year round and the lack of time oit of them. According to the article "back in the day" they didnt see half as much WLD, seedy toe, weak heels and caudal hoof pain as they do these days.

I would hazard a guess that time off helped with any niggles or tweaks picked up when in work.

Fitness and bringing back into work seems to have been taken more seriously "back in the day". The need for a gradual build up of walk work over a period of weeks appears to have been accepted and duly done. I guess a lack of arenas also help reduce the temptation to lunge and do circles at this time.

These days, both in real life and threads on here, horses are barely off box rest and they are being lunged and into faster work and schooling long before a suitable walking fitness could have been attained. I think that there is a massive lack of comprehension about the affects of box rest on horses.

Surfaces and arenas weren't as common back in the day and horses were exposed to working on more varied terrain. Nowadays there are some horses that barely leave the arena*.

*arena work can be varied and some horses are perfectly happy with this arrangement and can be dangerous /miserable to hack etc. Exceptions to every rule!

Surfaces vary so much and they can be so damaging if not of a good enough quality. I guess back in the day horses with presumed soft tissue injuries either got turned away, shot or bred from so perhaps that's why it seems like more of a modern day issue.

Having said that hacking is much more limited these days, especially road work. The roads are so much busier and in general people care less/are in more of a rush so you literally are taking your life in your hands to hack on the roads. Houses are popping up everywhere so theres not the same green spaces either. The weather is so awful and land is a premium that there often arent even fields to ride in so you are as good as forced to spend a lot of time in an arena.

I wasnt around "back, back in the day" but it seems like fashions play a bigger part these days. Training aids and various bits and nosebands are the first things that come to mind. There just wasnt the same amount of choice or options in years gone by.

It also seems fashionable to be wholly concerned with head position and a lot of bad/poor riding going into fixing the head into a certain position.

For the average Joe Bloggs back in the day I'm guessing that competitions didnt play such a large part in horse life due to money, availability, lack of transport etc? There perhaps wasnt the same pressure/rush/expectations on horse owners? Now it seems like a lot of people are, possibly subconsciously, looking for quick fixes. Be it tack choices, schooling/lunging aids, gimmicky feeds or to watch a youtube series/join a "training programme" and have that be enough.

However perhaps modern life has forced us into those choices. Possibly I'm looking through rose tinted glasses but "back in the day" it appears like people (well those people that were in the position that they could own a horse) had more time. It feels like work consumes more and more of peoples life these days and with laptops & mobiles you often never switch off and are always contsctable.

There are figures out there but despite "modern times" women in relationships where both parties work full still do something like 70% of the household duties and child raising on top. Then theres an expectation to make it look easy to "have it all" and continue to "have a life" and continue with hobbies/passions like horses. Maybe I know the wrong people but people these days seem to walking a fine line on the edge of exhaustion/burn out.

It seems to have calmed down a little where every person and their horse had themselves set up on social media. No matter how fun it might have started off there is pressure and stress with putting yourself out there, getting "likes" and I guess try to get free stuff! I dont think these times of oversharing are always to the benefit of people. Invisibility is a super power after all!

I cant imagine we will ever gravitate back to pre smart phone days and social media seems to have a proper grip of us now. I just dont think it's always the healthiest and that it creates a lot of pressure and stress especially if people already feel vunerable.

I fell down an hho rabbit hole last night and was reading old threads from 2013 era and so much had changed (on here anyway) even since those days.

 

[sbloom]

I think "back in the day" it was part ignorance and part lack of options.

As @sbloom has said horses tended to be of the same type and therefore shape. I would imagine at a gew decades ago there were no studies into the effects of saddle fitting. I was born the end of 82 and even I remember how common seeing horses with white withers and backs was and it appeared to be accepted as one of those things. Thankfully that seems to be hugely improved these days.

Again as @sbloom has said "back in the day" it was the norm to give horses approximately 12wks off every year. Hunters had the summer off and leisure/competition horses had thr winter off.

If you read good farrier texts like Hickmans or the more modern owners book (No foot no horse I think its called) the farrier authors all say that hooves need a break from shoes to recover. It was accepted as common knowledge that shoes comprised hooves and that 12wks out of them gave the hooves time to recover and grow out old nail holes. Hooves dont get that these days.

The Ferries are well known and respected farriers up here. They wrote an article for the horse section of The Scottish Farmer a few years ago. They wrote about the decline in hoof health related to wearing shoes year round and the lack of time oit of them. According to the article "back in the day" they didnt see half as much WLD, seedy toe, weak heels and caudal hoof pain as they do these days.

I would hazard a guess that time off helped with any niggles or tweaks picked up when in work.

Fitness and bringing back into work seems to have been taken more seriously "back in the day". The need for a gradual build up of walk work over a period of weeks appears to have been accepted and duly done. I guess a lack of arenas also help reduce the temptation to lunge and do circles at this time.

These days, both in real life and threads on here, horses are barely off box rest and they are being lunged and into faster work and schooling long before a suitable walking fitness could have been attained. I think that there is a massive lack of comprehension about the affects of box rest on horses.

Surfaces and arenas weren't as common back in the day and horses were exposed to working on more varied terrain. Nowadays there are some horses that barely leave the arena*.

*arena work can be varied and some horses are perfectly happy with this arrangement and can be dangerous /miserable to hack etc. Exceptions to every rule!

Surfaces vary so much and they can be so damaging if not of a good enough quality. I guess back in the day horses with presumed soft tissue injuries either got turned away, shot or bred from so perhaps that's why it seems like more of a modern day issue.

Having said that hacking is much more limited these days, especially road work. The roads are so much busier and in general people care less/are in more of a rush so you literally are taking your life in your hands to hack on the roads. Houses are popping up everywhere so theres not the same green spaces either. The weather is so awful and land is a premium that there often arent even fields to ride in so you are as good as forced to spend a lot of time in an arena.

I wasnt around "back, back in the day" but it seems like fashions play a bigger part these days. Training aids and various bits and nosebands are the first things that come to mind. There just wasnt the same amount of choice or options in years gone by.

It also seems fashionable to be wholly concerned with head position and a lot of bad/poor riding going into fixing the head into a certain position.

For the average Joe Bloggs back in the day I'm guessing that competitions didnt play such a large part in horse life due to money, availability, lack of transport etc? There perhaps wasnt the same pressure/rush/expectations on horse owners? Now it seems like a lot of people are, possibly subconsciously, looking for quick fixes. Be it tack choices, schooling/lunging aids, gimmicky feeds or to watch a youtube series/join a "training programme" and have that be enough.

However perhaps modern life has forced us into those choices. Possibly I'm looking through rose tinted glasses but "back in the day" it appears like people (well those people that were in the position that they could own a horse) had more time. It feels like work consumes more and more of peoples life these days and with laptops & mobiles you often never switch off and are always contsctable.

There are figures out there but despite "modern times" women in relationships where both parties work full still do something like 70% of the household duties and child raising on top. Then theres an expectation to make it look easy to "have it all" and continue to "have a life" and continue with hobbies/passions like horses. Maybe I know the wrong people but people these days seem to walking a fine line on the edge of exhaustion/burn out.

It seems to have calmed down a little where every person and their horse had themselves set up on social media. No matter how fun it might have started off there is pressure and stress with putting yourself out there, getting "likes" and I guess try to get free stuff! I dont think these times of oversharing are always to the benefit of people. Invisibility is a super power after all!

I cant imagine we will ever gravitate back to pre smart phone days and social media seems to have a proper grip of us now. I just dont think it's always the healthiest and that it creates a lot of pressure and stress especially if people already feel vunerable.

I fell down an hho rabbit hole last night and was reading old threads from 2013 era and so much had changed (on here anyway) even since those days.

Great post.

 

[sbloom]

Just musing after a friend's recent saddle fitting drama; how much of what a saddle fitter tells you is taken as gospel though? She had one saddler out to fit to her horse, the fitted saddle was duly purchased, but horse never seemed to go well under it. Another came out, checked it, said it didn't fit, so part exchanged the old for the new, same problem. Went and bought a generic adjustable saddle jobbie, horse going great! So is more differing professional opinions better, or creating more problems?

There is no one way to fit a saddle. There are many discussions at the moment about how to bring in standards across the industry but there are so many different ways to fit a saddle, which all can be successful, and so many VERY individual circumstances that may not benefit from a standardised approach, that it's hard for many of us to see how it can happen without getting rid of these more alternative approaches, or even the different ways that SMS fitters may approach things. And they've all had the same basic training!

If you buy a saddle make sure you're comfortable with the person you're buying it from, you need to feel comfortable to talk to them when things go wrong, as they are likely to appear to, especially down the line when few people get their saddles checked often enough. Make sure you know the terms and conditions of the purchase, whether you have a ridden trial (crucial in my mind) for a week or more, and what the remedy will be if the horse, or you, isn't happy. If he was never happy in it why did the rider not contact the fitter? I'm not saying your friend didn't take responsibility but it IS critical, to know the rider's role in all this, of knowing their horse, and to take the time to seek out the right help and a team they feel they can rely on, and who will work together.

 

[AutumnDays]

There is no one way to fit a saddle. There are many discussions at the moment about how to bring in standards across the industry but there are so many different ways to fit a saddle, which all can be successful, and so many VERY individual circumstances that may not benefit from a standardised approach, that it's hard for many of us to see how it can happen without getting rid of these more alternative approaches, or even the different ways that SMS fitters may approach things. And they've all had the same basic training!

If you buy a saddle make sure you're comfortable with the person you're buying it from, you need to feel comfortable to talk to them when things go wrong, as they are likely to appear to, especially down the line when few people get their saddles checked often enough. Make sure you know the terms and conditions of the purchase, whether you have a ridden trial (crucial in my mind) for a week or more, and what the remedy will be if the horse, or you, isn't happy. If he was never happy in it why did the rider not contact the fitter? I'm not saying your friend didn't take responsibility but it IS critical, to know the rider's role in all this, of knowing their horse, and to take the time to seek out the right help and a team they feel they can rely on, and who will work together.

I understand that completely, a crucial bit of kit that has such a big job on such a mobile, sensitive and shape shifting part of the animal cannot be fitted in one session, and that it is down to the rider to be aware of changes and feel etc when using it for the purpose intended, therefore they have more responsibility in a way, because they are with it more. I don't know why she didn't contact the original fitter, it's one of those where you don't ask too much, just nod and keep quiet!

 

[Birker2020]

I remember the riding school my friend and I rode at and volunteered at, at the weekends. They had saddles for each horse, it was very well organised and they got adjusted once a year.

I had a wintec for many years and got by with it so was delighted when my Dad went halves with me and I bought a nice Jefferies Falcon Event saddle. I used it for dressage as well as SJ and it served its purpose well, my horse went well in it and we achieved decent enough Novice and Elementary scores.

Eventually after winning a saddle in a competition and it being a fiasco I part exchanged it for a dressage saddle and loved riding in that but then not long after my horse started playing up in it so I went back to the event saddle again.

Saddle fit is so important to get right especially with young horses.

 

[MereChristmas]

In 1969 my pony needed a saddle. The only second hand saddles available were at the horse auctions and I did not know enough to buy there.
I went to the local ( 20 miles away ) saddler. The shop was in the centre of the nearest big town. The journey was walk, bus, train, bus, walk.
I described my pony. He said I have only 2 saddles in the shop they are both new and they will fit.
One, a dark brown Barnsby, I think, was £38. It had full panels. I wanted it desperately but did not have enough money.
The saddler had probably made the other. This was a London tan halfpanel with flat seat. It cost £23.
I bought the unbranded one.
It was used on that pony unchecked for 14 years without any visible problems.
I moved house to a completely different area of the UK and joined my children who were then old enough to Pony Club. I do not blame anyone for this but meeting many new people I was influenced that the saddle did not fit. A local saddler fitted the pony. I sold the half panel.
I never found another saddle I was happy with for that pony again.

 

[ApacheWarrior1]

Even at the RS I worked at we did our best to have saddles fitted - although we also had these odd pads (cork?) that went underneath to help their backs. The Shetland I started riding on had a crupper to stop her saddle heading down her neck and you don't see those much now.

I remember ponies with curly coats. We thought cushings was a disease old horses just got and i have zero memory of medicating so no idea when that came in.

 

[ApacheWarrior1]

Wow - cork pads - they are like hens teeth now and very expensive - they are still used on some saddles - Heather Moffett treeless Phoenix ones used to have them - brilliant for horses backs.

 

[onemoretime]

I think "back in the day" it was part ignorance and part lack of options.

As @sbloom has said horses tended to be of the same type and therefore shape. I would imagine at a gew decades ago there were no studies into the effects of saddle fitting. I was born the end of 82 and even I remember how common seeing horses with white withers and backs was and it appeared to be accepted as one of those things. Thankfully that seems to be hugely improved these days.

Again as @sbloom has said "back in the day" it was the norm to give horses approximately 12wks off every year. Hunters had the summer off and leisure/competition horses had thr winter off.

If you read good farrier texts like Hickmans or the more modern owners book (No foot no horse I think its called) the farrier authors all say that hooves need a break from shoes to recover. It was accepted as common knowledge that shoes comprised hooves and that 12wks out of them gave the hooves time to recover and grow out old nail holes. Hooves dont get that these days.

The Ferries are well known and respected farriers up here. They wrote an article for the horse section of The Scottish Farmer a few years ago. They wrote about the decline in hoof health related to wearing shoes year round and the lack of time oit of them. According to the article "back in the day" they didnt see half as much WLD, seedy toe, weak heels and caudal hoof pain as they do these days.

I would hazard a guess that time off helped with any niggles or tweaks picked up when in work.

Fitness and bringing back into work seems to have been taken more seriously "back in the day". The need for a gradual build up of walk work over a period of weeks appears to have been accepted and duly done. I guess a lack of arenas also help reduce the temptation to lunge and do circles at this time.

These days, both in real life and threads on here, horses are barely off box rest and they are being lunged and into faster work and schooling long before a suitable walking fitness could have been attained. I think that there is a massive lack of comprehension about the affects of box rest on horses.

Surfaces and arenas weren't as common back in the day and horses were exposed to working on more varied terrain. Nowadays there are some horses that barely leave the arena*.

*arena work can be varied and some horses are perfectly happy with this arrangement and can be dangerous /miserable to hack etc. Exceptions to every rule!

Surfaces vary so much and they can be so damaging if not of a good enough quality. I guess back in the day horses with presumed soft tissue injuries either got turned away, shot or bred from so perhaps that's why it seems like more of a modern day issue.

Having said that hacking is much more limited these days, especially road work. The roads are so much busier and in general people care less/are in more of a rush so you literally are taking your life in your hands to hack on the roads. Houses are popping up everywhere so theres not the same green spaces either. The weather is so awful and land is a premium that there often arent even fields to ride in so you are as good as forced to spend a lot of time in an arena.

I wasnt around "back, back in the day" but it seems like fashions play a bigger part these days. Training aids and various bits and nosebands are the first things that come to mind. There just wasnt the same amount of choice or options in years gone by.

It also seems fashionable to be wholly concerned with head position and a lot of bad/poor riding going into fixing the head into a certain position.

For the average Joe Bloggs back in the day I'm guessing that competitions didnt play such a large part in horse life due to money, availability, lack of transport etc? There perhaps wasnt the same pressure/rush/expectations on horse owners? Now it seems like a lot of people are, possibly subconsciously, looking for quick fixes. Be it tack choices, schooling/lunging aids, gimmicky feeds or to watch a youtube series/join a "training programme" and have that be enough.

However perhaps modern life has forced us into those choices. Possibly I'm looking through rose tinted glasses but "back in the day" it appears like people (well those people that were in the position that they could own a horse) had more time. It feels like work consumes more and more of peoples life these days and with laptops & mobiles you often never switch off and are always contsctable.

There are figures out there but despite "modern times" women in relationships where both parties work full still do something like 70% of the household duties and child raising on top. Then theres an expectation to make it look easy to "have it all" and continue to "have a life" and continue with hobbies/passions like horses. Maybe I know the wrong people but people these days seem to walking a fine line on the edge of exhaustion/burn out.

It seems to have calmed down a little where every person and their horse had themselves set up on social media. No matter how fun it might have started off there is pressure and stress with putting yourself out there, getting "likes" and I guess try to get free stuff! I dont think these times of oversharing are always to the benefit of people. Invisibility is a super power after all!

I cant imagine we will ever gravitate back to pre smart phone days and social media seems to have a proper grip of us now. I just dont think it's always the healthiest and that it creates a lot of pressure and stress especially if people already feel vunerable.

I fell down an hho rabbit hole last night and was reading old threads from 2013 era and so much had changed (on here anyway) even since those days.

This is so so true. I was born in 1954 so am very old but I can remember when keeping horses was somehow much easier. A lot of horses lived out had hay and oats and bran sometimes a few nuts in the winter. We couldn't ride much in the winter only sometimes at the weekends so the ponies or horses had time off. They all seemed very healthy and were seldom lame or ill.

My horses always have a couple of months off in the winter with their shoes off. They are still fed and brought in at night but they have some wind down time. Then end of January they are shod up again and start their road work and then we gradually incorporate some schooling and we carry on like this until the competition season starts again and by that time they are reasonably fit.

I appreciate that many people are frightened to ride on the roads today as there is so much fast traffic nowadays but I do think it helps to build muscle slowly and carefully, but I am old school and this is the way I and my family before me have always done it.

 

[splashgirl45]

well i was born in 1946 so a bit older, and road work at walk was classed as essential to get horses fit after a lay off. my horse had a holiday out at grass for about 6 weeks every year as we had no grazing at the yard. we took hind shoes off for safety and some had fronts off as well. mine was half tb with flat feet and struggled without fronts and six weeks wasnt really long enough for feet to recover so he kept fronts on.... if any of the RS horses were not quite sound we would have to cold hose them as the first treatment and give them a couple of days off. the vet was summoned very rarely and most of them seemed to be fine without the way we wrap them in cotton wool thesedays, i must admit i am guilty of being a fanatic about soundness and wouldnt hesitate to get the vet if i was worried...

 

[GSD Woman]

our school ponies all had their own saddles and bridles. Maybe because back in the day so many horses in my neck of the woods were either Quarter horse type or thoroughbred types that our saddles either fit or they didn't.

I also understand about the lack of safe hacking. Where I kept my horse we used to be able to cross a few country roads and then have miles of hacking. Now it is mostly subdivisions. It makes me sad..