Fixing a "draw reins horse"

[MissTyc]

Have acquired a new horse who has clearly been incorrectly schooled in draw reins (possibly tight side reins!). As a result his head carriage is very incorrect - his neck looks curved in the middle.

He's very tight in the poll and wither area, which we are addressing immediately with chiro and stretching.

Am thinking of schooling him long and low on the lunge in a hope to help correct his muscle structure. He goes quite short strided under saddle though as he is tense. He overbends at the slightest opportunity and generally moves tensely and what to my eyes looks like a classical misuse of draw reins case I'm sure people are familiar with what I am trying to describe!

I know a lot of people here have reschooled horses in this situation - any tips gratefully received!

 

[galaxy]

what is he like on a loose rein ridden/lunge with not gadgets. Can he balance?

I have found with some of these horses they really struggle when not being "held together", so starting back on washing lines and then progressing to gentle contact etc is the best way forward. Never "ask" for an outline as you'll get the forced one. Let it redevelope naturally.

 

[JessandCharlie]

I'd do a lot on a longish reins, encouraging them to stretch down. Lots of people dislike them, but I have found a pessoa to be very useful for this in the past Correctly fitted it shouldn't jab the horse in the mouth, which is the problem a lot of people seem to have with them.

Hope that helps

J&C

 

[MissTyc]

I have so far only lunged him "naked" and in a simple loose chambon ... Naked he was very unbalanced. In the chambon he seemed to seek downwards, but ran on the forehand, almost like he wanted to nosedive into the contact, which is pretty much what you're describing - he doesn't know what to do with himself! Maybe a pessoa would be more helpful to him. He is a very muscled at the moment, so I might let him go a little bit soft before starting new things!

Do you think just keep him completely naked until he finds a natural position that suits him and work with that?

I haven't schooled him under saddle other than trying him out. Have hacked him three times now on a long rein and he pootles happily in walk, trot and canter with his head stuck out miles in front and very very obedient to seat aids.

 

[PolarSkye]

Oh my goodness, you've just described my boy!

I bought him in early Jan 2010 . . . we had to start by getting him to be responsible for his own balance so removed all gadgets (including flash) and worked him sloooooowly. We had to be careful that he didn't lean on the rider, so lots of give/take on the rein. We lunged him many ways . . . double lunging, single with side reins, in a pessoa . . . always with the goal to get him to take responsibility for his own balance and then begin to trust and even seek a contact (I always lunged him in a bridle and preferred to lunge him in a large space so he couldn't lean on anything (like walls, etc.)). When we first bought him, he panicked as soon as he began to even seek the contact - partly we suspect b/c he lost balance, and partly b/c he remembered being pinned in by the draw reins (if he really panicked he would rear).

When he was starting to take responsibility for his own balance, we introduced poles - flat on the floor at first and then elevated. I lunged him over jumps. Then we started jumping him. My trainer has been schooling him for me too (she's a much better rider than I) . . . 8 months or so after she started he is now taking responsibility for his own balance (we couldn't get him to carry himself in trot at first unless we stayed sitting) in all three paces.

It probably depends on the horse . . . your horse may well be much stronger than Kal is (he is still very weak behind), he may/may not be more/less trusting than Kal. What I will say is that Kal has improved hugely since we bought him, but in terms of time actually addressing the problem I'd say it's taken us at least 9 months so far - and we're not out of the woods yet. That said, we've had to get inside his head and fix his brain as much as we've had to fix his way of going/muscularity.

Oh - and he's probably had at least 5 visits from physios since we bought him too . . . all have helped, but more are needed.

Good luck!

P

 

[PolarSkye]

what is he like on a loose rein ridden/lunge with not gadgets. Can he balance?

I have found with some of these horses they really struggle when not being "held together", so starting back on washing lines and then progressing to gentle contact etc is the best way forward. Never "ask" for an outline as you'll get the forced one. Let it redevelope naturally.

This.

You horse needs to learn to carry himself. Easier said than done - requires soooo much patience!

P

 

[galaxy]

I have so far only lunged him "naked" and in a simple loose chambon ... Naked he was very unbalanced. In the chambon he seemed to seek downwards, but ran on the forehand, almost like he wanted to nosedive into the contact, which is pretty much what you're describing - he doesn't know what to do with himself!

Yes, I would take everything off. Until he can learn to balance himself, he is never going to work properly. He will just be getting you to hold him there.

It's amazing how quickly they learn. Don't be disheartened! It will be worth it.

 

[JessandCharlie]

I have so far only lunged him "naked" and in a simple loose chambon ... Naked he was very unbalanced. In the chambon he seemed to seek downwards, but ran on the forehand, almost like he wanted to nosedive into the contact, which is pretty much what you're describing - he doesn't know what to do with himself! Maybe a pessoa would be more helpful to him. He is a very muscled at the moment, so I might let him go a little bit soft before starting new things!

Do you think just keep him completely naked until he finds a natural position that suits him and work with that?

I haven't schooled him under saddle other than trying him out. Have hacked him three times now on a long rein and he pootles happily in walk, trot and canter with his head stuck out miles in front and very very obedient to seat aids.

This is a good idea I think Let him learn 'a balance' on his own, naturally and perhaps when this is established it will be easier to work with him to correct the problem

J&C

 

[nikCscott]

This is exactly like my boy was he was always ridden in draw reins and without them his walk was almost a tight stiff jog and he'd napp and buck so not to go down a hill and would scrabble up hill.

After 3 months just hacking in the woods up and down hills teaching him to balance and how to use his back and working with back lady I began asking him to work correctly and slowly but surely it's coming together although still would like him to engage the back end more but it'll come.

Good luck it's so nice when you can lose that horrid walk/jog!

Should have mentioned- when he came the 1st thing I did was strip the tack back to happy mouth snaffle, cavason and a running martingale (for the neck strap just in case)

 

[PolarSkye]

I have so far only lunged him "naked" and in a simple loose chambon ... Naked he was very unbalanced. In the chambon he seemed to seek downwards, but ran on the forehand, almost like he wanted to nosedive into the contact, which is pretty much what you're describing - he doesn't know what to do with himself! Maybe a pessoa would be more helpful to him. He is a very muscled at the moment, so I might let him go a little bit soft before starting new things!

Do you think just keep him completely naked until he finds a natural position that suits him and work with that?

I haven't schooled him under saddle other than trying him out. Have hacked him three times now on a long rein and he pootles happily in walk, trot and canter with his head stuck out miles in front and very very obedient to seat aids.

We spent lots of time getting Kal to a) trust that he COULD carry himself on a very loose rein; and b) work on a very loose rein and actively seek the contact . . . like your boy, we discovered that Kal was (is) very responsive to seat aids so tried to work off those to start with. Maybe try the pessoa and see how he takes to it?

I guess the problem with any incorrectly developed musculature is getting the horse to NOT rely on it . . . if, like my boy, he will give a false outline then getting him to not use those muscles is half the battle.

P

 

[MissTyc]

Thanks everyone - it's good to have reassurance he might be normal one day!

I normally start my own horses, but this chap sort of found me (you know how it happens!) ... His brain is in the right place and he's a willing, hard worker, seems keen to please for now which is a good start.

I think a lot of his schooling is not terrible - he's responsive and sensitive to hand and leg, but I reckon some misguided gadget use has led to him missing out on some important basics and left him confused. He's only 6 years old and been broken for 2 years with only two previous riders (owner who broke him in and schooled + sharer who hacked him)

 

[MissTyc]

It's been a few weeks and I am very happy with his progress!
He's had a chiro session in this time and is working much more naturally on the lunge in just a cavesson. On the left rein I think he's showing masses of potential - really swinging through from behind, going long and low for some strides then picking himself up more. Right rein he is more tense and find it harder to lift the shoulder (esp inside shoulder), so will be focussing on this rein a bit more now, still without any gadgets.
Riding wise am mostly hacking on the buckle, walk trot canter, he's an absolute poppet and am now so much more looking forward to schooling him this winter!

 

[Marydoll]

This has been such a good thread to read and has some cracking good advice on it

 

[MissTyc]

I know nobody will be too interested, but it's been a month since I've tackled this problem and

... He is like a new horse already. I can see so much potential and he's trying his little heart out. Can't wait to see what he grows into in the future! Took him to his first party and he came 5th in Prelim 18 in a big class with some nice comments on his contact and attitude - just very rushed, which is totally true and we'll get there!

Still no gadgets on him and we'll wind it down for the winter soon so he can let his little tiny brain have a rest

 

[Goldenstar]

look at the horse heroes website and see the lunging rope there is also some video on you tude. The lunging rope is a very simple thing that really helps with this sort of horse I used on a driving horse who I backed a ten years old he was so broken necked I despaired this lunging rope was our break though.

 

[MissTyc]

Two months - Not perfect by far but carrying himself sooo much better and suddenly discovered the forward button - a lovely genuine springy forward. Much less rushed than before and not "falling over" as much. Feeling very confident now that a stronger balance is imminent!

Chiro thinks topline stronger (less tension in poll and all round) and obviously that's what I wanted to hear so I'm happy to agree

On that note, we're going hunting for the rest of the winter and will only be schooling on hacks until the spring. No more lunging or circles until further notice.

Thanks for all the advice guys - always appreciated

 

[Goldenstar]

might be worth trying a lunging rope ( horseheros website) which really helped mine apart from lots of hacking ,doing uphill on a loose rein ,leading from another horse in walk.
the lunging rope really helped him but it has been a slow progression , Nothing improved quickly with mine who had that broken neck thing from driving but although when tense you can see it ,you would not know now when you see him work that it was a huge issue when I stared.
The Pessoa was not at good for mine made him much worse.

 

[MissTyc]

Thanks for the tip, Goldenstar - will look into it