Flash nose band advice please

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HaffiesRock

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I am not one for using tack I don't need as I am lazy and don't like to clean it :)

My Haffy doesn't wear a nose band unless its for the show ring. He is very strong and runs through you giving you little control. After watching a video of us riding last week I saw that he was constantly opening his mouth and getting his tongue over the bit. (Dentist came last month so it's not a dental issue)

So I decided to try a flash nose band. Well, the difference is AMAZING! He is like a new angelic creature. Schooled beautifully on Saturday in it without being strong at all, and hacked for 3 hours yesterday including a calm CANTER where we normally gallop and I have little say in the matter!

So I am very pleased it is working well and he seems comfortable in it (He would tell me in no uncertain terms if he didn't like it)

So my question is, how long and when do I use it? Is it something I can use for a while and then eventually he won't need it, or do you think without it he will resort to mouth opening and pulling? I'm hoping he will soon realise that him keeping his mouth shut equals a happier mum who doesn't pull on him.

I'd prefer a well schooled, behaved horse rather than one where I strap his mouth closed. Ill add it isn't very tight either, I can easily get a finger in all the way around and he can still move his jaw freely.

Any advice appreciated. :)
 
Sorry dont have any advice but will be watching this thread with interest as have v much the same with my new horse. Hate gadgets and strapping mouth shut but as you say,is really helping at the minute. Good luck!
 
I use a flash for dressage and a grackle (proper one without the rings) for jumping because it gives me a chance of control. I always think going up a noseband is far better than changing to a stronger bit and kinder to. Evading the bit is usually the issue and nosebands address that without damaging your horses mouth. In my limited experience you can never go back, once they know how to evade they will carry on doing it. However if you are now able to be kinder and more effective with you hands then hopefully you wont have to escalate and tighten your flash or move to a drop or grackle. It might take somegetting used to from your POV too!
Hope that helps a little.
 
Thanks everyone, for now I am just happy I have a quieter pony that I can control!

I do worry what he will be like at our first ridden show when I put a hunter nose band on him.

Think I'll hack over in the flash and change just before the class so by the time he realises it isn't there, we will be done :)
 
There are plenty of reasons why a horse does this. He is trying to tell you he has a problem, giving you some feedback. The short cut to solving the problem is to strap his mouth shut, ignore what he is trying to tell you. Initially, this may seem like a cure, but it really isn't. Unless your horse is an extreme passive, he will be thinking up something else to try and get through to you.
What the problem is, is anyone's guess. I know you say, the dentist has been, so it cannot be that, really? Could be he is uncomfortable with the bit you use, could be your heavy handed. Whatever the reason, strapping his mouth shut isn't right. I know a lot of professional riders use flashes and similar devices, but a lot of professional riders do some pretty horrific things to horses and are not a good example. I'm not saying all, but some of the dominant crappy ones. If you can find the true reason for your horse's unhappiness you'll get a much better ride and a much better relationship.
 
I agree with Pale Rider to a large extent, although I do use flash nosebands on some horses not to "cure" a problem but to prevent the horse learning the evasion in the first place. I am obsessive about bitting the horse according to its conformation, and I get very cross when people talk about using flashes to "keep the horse's mouth closed". No, it's to discourage the horse from opening its mouth, and the flash should never be tight and should allow free movement of the jaw. As Pale Rider says, some of the professionals have their flashes so tight it's a wonder their horses go at all. You only have to look at some of the pics in H&H of certain top eventers to see that.
 
I think it's a case of use it when you need it:). If he goes better in it, then great! You might have to use it permanently, you might not. You'll just have to wait and see;). There's lots of negative thoughts surrounding the flash. You said your pony tells you when he doesn't like something, and it sounds like he wasn't too keen on how his bit felt before you used the flash, and as he's stopped doing that behaviour now, one can assume he likes the feel of the flash. I find they hold the bit in place nicely, maybe your pony likes it because it keeps the bit in a comfortable, secure position in his mouth?
Flashes (fitted correctly) don't stop a horse from opening its mouth/sticking its tongue out (pony at my riding school still managed to stick her tongue out when she was wearing a flash, that, in my opinion, was too tight), they just discourage a horse from doing that (as Rowreach said).
 
Loika said:
I use a flash for dressage and a grackle (proper one without the rings) for jumping because it gives me a chance of control. I always think going up a noseband is far better than changing to a stronger bit and kinder to. Evading the bit is usually the issue and nosebands address that without damaging your horses mouth. In my limited experience you can never go back, once they know how to evade they will carry on doing it. However if you are now able to be kinder and more effective with you hands then hopefully you wont have to escalate and tighten your flash or move to a drop or grackle. It might take somegetting used to from your POV too!
Hope that helps a little.
Click to expand...

This ^^ and I use a flash and grackle too on my Haffie.
 
Thank you everybody.

As I said at the beginning, I have tried various bits, had the dentist twice and then after a long think decided to try a flash. The flash has worked wonders and meant that I could stop him from a flat gallop in an open field last night with the flash done up very loosely. I don't want to use it as an everyday "gadget" and that is why I asked if it is something I can phase out.

He is much happier in himself and yesterday actually stopped sniffing the scrap of hay on the floor and presented his head to me to put on his bridle which was great.

I will continue with it for now as I reschool him and see how he goes without it when he working well.

Thanks for all your input. x
 
Can I ask what sort of mouth piece you have on your bit? Opening the mouth and evading the bit, is without a doubt a horse trying to get away from something uncomfortable.
My haffy can't have any bit with any form of link, so all snaffles drive him nuts, I also don't think he likes action on the lips.
I spent years trying to different bits - he now goes like a dream, with the lightest contact in a ported mouth kimblewick. There's no lip pressure and relief for his tongue, he's happy I'm happy.
I personally would never strap a horses mouth shut on the grounds I wouldn't like my mouth strapped shut.
Not having a go at all but just wondering if a different mouth piece will make your horse more comfortable in the mouth
 
snooples said:
I dont like flashes and kind of think they shouldnt be allowed for dressage, they are clearly there to stop an evasion which a well schooled horse shouldnt do

This photo makes me want to ban all flashes, I will probably get in trouble for posting this but I dont care

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...08828456.1073741831.1625251396&type=3&theater
Click to expand...

What a horrid photo, that noseband is tight to the extent of restricting the poor horse's breathing:(. Flashes are misused a lot, and maybe this is why so many people think of them negatively. But pretty much any piece of tack can be misused, just because some people don't use flashes correctly doesn't mean that they should be banned.
But something many people do not seem to consider is the possibility that some horses actually prefer being ridden in a flash (it sounds like OP's pony is one of those who do):).
 
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Sounds more to me like OP's pony used to evade an uncomfortable bit/wasn't well-schooled and has, for now at least, been forced to accept the pain/control it was trying to avoid. :-(

Sorry but would suggest getting an instructor to have a look at the way you work together (in case it is a schooling issue) and maybe going bitless for a while, in safe environment with people around, (in case it is a pain issue) before resorting to the flash again.

Good luck - haffies are lovely characters!
 
Im with Pale Rider et al

And you most certainly can 'go back' my mare put her tongue over teh 30 odd bits I tried until I learnt how to do stationary flexions and then mobile in hand work, re educating her mouth and her as to the bit and its aids.

It sounds like the OP has got herself into a tug of war with the horse, which clearly a horse is always going to win. You need to go back to basics and and re school as to what rein and weight aids mean. Id suggest using some sort of reward, whether it be a treat or a lovely rub and a few mins of just standing and letting him process things - but somewhere the communication has gone horribly wrong.
 
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