Flatwork/Dressage-whats the rush?? (MORE FORWARD)

B

bu_apple

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2007
Messages
113
Visit site
I have been training with my wonderful instructors for the last god knows how many years. They describe dressgae as Ballet- it should be elegant, peaceful and look effortless. I have always trained my horses with their 'natural balance and rhythm' at the forefront of my mind. I prefer to ride from my seat and very little from my hand- if i drop the reins- the horse should remain balanced and lifted in a true way across its back-not from the front end. Many horses i see are (in my opinion) being pushed foward far too much- they look unbalanced and can barely get their legs under them quick enough. It looks rushed and for whatever reason the majority of the judges love it! This is to be said for all levels-right up to the very top in dressage.

I forever hear people saying 'more forward, move it on' and they seem to think that by doing this it is 'working from behind'.
I find this so frustrating. My horses are responsive and off the leg without trotting round at 100mph -By slowing down and gaining their own balance they can lift through the shoulder and back and all lateral becomes so much more achievable-somthing i struggle to think they can do 'correctly' at speed.

I am not knocking anyone for this way of going- i just wonder what peoples view are? I don't want to get it confused with stuffy, dead horses who are not off the leg-that is different.

Someone i have recently started having lessons with became so baffled and frustrated by the whole thing she stopped judging (at olympic level) as she did not believe the marks awarded in dressage to be a true reflection of the real meaning of the sport. I would be interested to hear your opinions?
 
I think there is something in your comments, I see a lot of horses who look very heavy in the hand, with many problems being masked by the way the rider appears.
There are also a great many horses who are correctly trained and who do work as you describe. I don't think you can make a judgement of the lot!
I know when our horses get comments like "Correct training showing through test"
it assures us that the judge can see the difference.
I've been baffled sometimes myself at events when you see horses with tight short necks, choppy strides but who by their colour (say dapple grey) are eyecatchers gettting good marks, in the end we gave up guessing what the marks would be and relied on another event rider who near enough always got a similar mark, so if he got a poor mark yet did his normal test, it didn't bother us if ours were similar.
I do think perhaps you should take into account the differing abilities of riders, not everyone has access to wonderful instructors or easy horses. Or super facilities to ride for that matter. Many like one rider I know don't have access to an arena on a regular basis yet manage to compete at 3*** level despite all that.
I haven't hear the phrase you mention, but then having been around quite a long time, phrases become fashionable then disappear..
I remember when "Yarrrrr! first came around, the Germanic training system was very much in the height and it was normal to see trainers standing at shows shouting it every few seconds!!
It's a long time since I competed in dressage, but the levels and knowledge have advanced hugely, I think perhaps you're being a bit too pessimistic about standards, they really aren't that bad and our recent results at the very top are proving that, it's filtering down but it takes time..
 
I am not doubting the standards at all- i am just keen to know why people like to see horses going so fast in their paces.
I may have made my post sound more like a dig, which it really isn't-i'm just entrigued (spelling)!
 
my trainer is the same as yours, he NEVER lets the horse be rushed out of its natural rhythm. if it is relaxed then it will swing through in its natural rhythm, and the paces improve.
maybe it's because some of these horses are tight and can't/won't release through (yet), so sending them forward is a way of trying to get them to start pushing more? i don't agree with it though, tbh, a horse working in tension, esp if it's fast, is imho more likely to break down, get stressy, etc, and doesn't have time to take a good true step.
maybe people don't realise the difference between forward (in balance, with lightness and cadence) and rushing.
frown.gif
frown.gif
 
my trainer works the same way as your's by the sounds of it, she keeps saying to slow down and find the rhythm, and then create more power but this does not mean to go any faster or more forward. Don't like to see horses rushing/hurried either or pushed out of their natural rhythm.
 
I am afraid I like them forward, straight and calm. This does not mean fast but some horses are behind the leg and they need to move on quite alot until they start to 'take you ' At riding club level I see too many riders happy with a jog with no impulsion .I tend to think of it more like gymnastics than ballet. Controlled power with elasticity.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am afraid I like them forward, straight and calm. This does not mean fast but some horses are behind the leg and they need to move on quite alot until they start to 'take you ' At riding club level I see too many riders happy with a jog with no impulsion .I tend to think of it more like gymnastics than ballet. Controlled power with elasticity.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto this...my trainer likes me to be forward but not rushing...i think the problem lies in the fact that a lot of people don't really understand stressage and think that a horse just needs its head tucked in and so they are all bunched up and short- then a trainer will say more forwards meaning that they want them taking the rider forward and down into a consistent contact but riders misinterpret this as "lets whazz off around the arena at 100 miles an hour"....perhaps some trainers need to be clearer with what they mean/are trying ti achieve....
smile.gif
 
Often something needs to slow down and rebalance before it can go correctly forwards.

I also dont understand the constant need to go up a pace- if you cant do it in halt then how on earth do you think you'll be able to do it in walk, trot or canter?!
 
i am going through this with my 5yro now.

she has been away with another rider and now she has come home i have put her in flatwork bootcamp as she likes to run on which i have found the judges are very quick to pick up on!

we are working on trot and canter making them more adjustable- so we can come back to a tiny, tiny trot, then a little bigger then back to tiny trot then bigger again etc to get her really back on her hocks and swinging.

even after 3 or 4 sessions there is a massive difference in her way of going- she is actually more reactive and in front of the leg than she was when she was going faster.
and instead of having to 'hold' her on the outline, i have a lovely light, elastic contact where i can actually hold my hands out in front of me and she will carry herself.

canter is still very much a work in progress as she has one canter and is sticking to it but i am sure she will understand soon enough- you have to be patient with a mardy flatbred tb!
 
I have seen quite a few eventing tests where it appears the horse is 'hammering' round it's test at a rate of knots, and yet still appears to get a good mark! Which confuses me, as to me it looks like the horse is rushing and therefore taking shorter steps to keep up the pace, there doesn't seem to be an elevation or cadence in the paces because of this?

I do see it less in pure dressage though...
 
If you can rifde off your seat then yes I agree with you. However so many people ride with their hands and forget the leg at all, the horses don't work from behind, and to 'repair' such a backwards horse in combination with an inexperienced rider you have to be a bit agricultural for a while.
And I think more often referrs to more cadence, rather than more forward in my experience. If you have the basics right its not a problem - but it seems most people don't!
 
And I think more importantly that before a horse comes back onto its hocks and is properly engaged, it has to be going forward. When you are teaching them, they can only sit as much as they have been going forward, they don't have the muscles to create the impulsion themselves.
I'm not disagreing that alot of people end up rushing the horse but sometimes there is a long term goal, and its so easy to get lulled into poddling about feeling safe and pretty
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top