Fleece or memory foam girth for horse that drops when mounted

[jo_wales_86]

Hi All,

I have a new youngster that slightly drops his back end when first mounted. Only for a few strides. He don’t do this when he is lunged first only when we bring him out of the stable and get on at the block.

I’ve seen many different opinions on what girth to use.

Some say fleece, elasticated both ends
Some say memory foam elasticated both ends.

Does anyone have any advice please?

Thanks in advance

 

[Equi]

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by drops his back end..could you elaborate? And why do you think the girth might solve it?

 

[jo_wales_86]

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by drops his back end..could you elaborate? And why do you think the girth might solve it?

He’s ever so slightly cold backed ‘no medical issues been vet checked’ so when you get on him straight from the stable his back end slightly drops for a stride or two and then he walks out perfect. I’ve seen some information regarding girths and sensitivity

 

[ihatework]

Looking at the picture of your lovely boy on your other thread, then the thing that jumps out at me is the structure and muscling from the saddle back. I’d be wanting back X-rays and a SI check from a good ortho vet. Hopefully it’s just an age/strength thing but putting the picture with the symptoms I’m suspicious

 

[jo_wales_86]

Looking at the picture of your lovely boy on your other thread, then the thing that jumps out at me is the structure and muscling from the saddle back. I’d be wanting back X-rays and a SI check from a good ortho vet. Hopefully it’s just an age/strength thing but putting the picture with the symptoms I’m suspicious

He’s been checked and has nothing medical and he’s only 5 year old and has only been out of a field and ridden for 2 months. He is fine if we lunge him or walk him first just not if we girth him up and get on. No ears back or naughty behaviour.

 

[Spottyappy]

I’m not Convinced a change of girth will help with a cold backed horse. Walk the horse around for a few minutes before mounting, already proven by you saying he is ok after lunging first. I’m not sure why you’d not do this if it makes him more comfy?
However, in relation to the girth question, we use these on all of ours after having an incredibly sensitive mare:

Kieffer Preneline Girth

Durable and carefree girth made of Kiefferpren which is soft, smooth, skin-friendly and sweat absorbing. Machine washable up to 30 degrees C. All lengths are available in extensions of 5 cm, without elasticated inserts, roller buckles with elastomer band 40-80 cm.

gsequestrian.co.uk

They are wide, and soft.

 

[TPO]

He’s been checked and has nothing medical and he’s only 5 year old and has only been out of a field and ridden for 2 months. He is fine if we lunge him or walk him first just not if we girth him up and get on. No ears back or naughty behaviour.

What do you mean by "checked"?

Behind where the saddle sits should be flat, in your picture it's raised. That alone should raise an eyebrow and warrant further investigation (xray and work up by equine specialist vet)

 

[jo_wales_86]

What do you mean by "checked"?

Behind where the saddle sits should be flat, in your picture it's raised. That alone should raise an eyebrow and warrant further investigation (xray and work up by equine specialist vet)

As I have already stated twice above this has been done.

 

[jo_wales_86]

I’m not Convinced a change of girth will help with a cold backed horse. Walk the horse around for a few minutes before mounting, already proven by you saying he is ok after lunging first. I’m not sure why you’d not do this if it makes him more comfy?
However, in relation to the girth question, we use these on all of ours after having an incredibly sensitive mare:

Kieffer Preneline Girth

Durable and carefree girth made of Kiefferpren which is soft, smooth, skin-friendly and sweat absorbing. Machine washable up to 30 degrees C. All lengths are available in extensions of 5 cm, without elasticated inserts, roller buckles with elastomer band 40-80 cm.

gsequestrian.co.uk

They are wide, and soft.

As he is a baby and we are getting him used to the block, he didn’t do it the first few times mounted from the block only the last two. He’s not sensitive to tack up or girth up. I have just changed his saddle too as the other was slipping on him and gone from a monoflap to GP so not sure if the difference in girth has made a difference as now higher on his sides

 

[The Xmas Furry]

As I have already stated twice above this has been done.

Did the xrays show anything, however minor?

 

[webble]

He’s been checked and has nothing medical and he’s only 5 year old and has only been out of a field and ridden for 2 months. He is fine if we lunge him or walk him first just not if we girth him up and get on. No ears back or naughty behaviour.

What checks has he had?

Can someone link to the pic please?

 

[blitznbobs]

This suggests to me that he doesn’t have enough
Muscle to carry what he is being asked to carry. A girth isn’t going to help, lunging over poles and long reining up hills might

 

[Zoeypxo]

A girth is unlikely to make any difference. Have you had a professional saddle fitting?

All the horses ive ever ridden that were ‘cold backed’ either had something simple like a poor fitting saddle, or something more like kissing spine, psd , neck arthritis etc. most of those were young not just old horses.

 

[nutjob]

Can someone link to the pic please

Help Name New Horse

Hi All, I’ve got a new horse who’s by Move to Strike and mum is That’s the Spirit. Need a show name for him. He’s a 17.2hh ISH and is dark brown Thanks ☺️

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

OP given that the back has been xray'd and other vet checks done with no findings then a good next step would be an experienced saddle fitter. The horse looks tricky to fit and you may need to change the position of the girth straps as well or instead of the girth but you need a good professional to see the horse. In term of vet checks, even if you've had the spine checked and xray'd it's still difficult to pick up an SI injury. My horse had a slightly stiffer gait and I had seen him fall but if I had just bought him, he didn't actually look lame. At 12yo he still has poor muscle development behind the saddle and I've had him injected twice and done a lot of rehab work.

 

[vickyb]

This suggests to me that he doesn’t have enough
Muscle to carry what he is being asked to carry. A girth isn’t going to help, lunging over poles and long reining up hills might

I would echo the first sentence here.
Other than that, have you tried getting on, but standing in the stirrups for the first few strides then gradually and gently sitting down? It used to work for me with a horse that was 'cold backed'. (This was in the days before up to date knowledge about back and other ridden problems). I would say though, that his response was, if you forgot to get on gently, to hump his back and usually buck, not sink down. The only sinking I usually see is when adults get on their kids little ponies to 'ride them in' or whatever.

 

[webble]

Help Name New Horse

Hi All, I’ve got a new horse who’s by Move to Strike and mum is That’s the Spirit. Need a show name for him. He’s a 17.2hh ISH and is dark brown Thanks ☺️

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

OP given that the back has been xray'd and other vet checks done with no findings then a good next step would be an experienced saddle fitter. The horse looks tricky to fit and you may need to change the position of the girth straps as well or instead of the girth but you need a good professional to see the horse. In term of vet checks, even if you've had the spine checked and xray'd it's still difficult to pick up an SI injury. My horse had a slightly stiffer gait and I had seen him fall but if I had just bought him, he didn't actually look lame. At 12yo he still has poor muscle development behind the saddle and I've had him injected twice and done a lot of rehab work.

Agreed, mine has SI issue amongst other things but its only the later stages we could tell. An ultrasound might tell you more

 

[Melody Grey]

Observation based on limited info: he’s big at 17.2hh and only 5 if I’ve interpreted that correctly? He hasn’t finished growing and hasn’t done a lot, at least recently?

I would be looking at strengthening and careful work now, probably without a rider. I’d be mindful of how much of that happens on a surface/ lunging too. Long reining out and about might be good if he’s safe enough?

Based on the pic, he looks weak behind. I’d want to know whether the shaping behind the saddle is skeletally influenced or unusual muscle deposition- could be symptomatic of compensatory movement somewhere else?

I see that nothing has been found from a vet perspective - have a very holistic look at the whole horse (not all vets are good at this ) I’d want to have a big look at feet and biomechanics- his size won’t be doing him any favours based on my experiences.

 

[jo_wales_86]

He has had a saddle professionally fitted. Doesn’t do it at all with a leg up, just from the mounting block. Has no issues after 2/3 strides and works well. No humping or bucking at all. X-rays are clear.

 

[jo_wales_86]

Since been shod all round and had no issues being shod.

 

[jo_wales_86]

Observation based on limited info: he’s big at 17.2hh and only 5 if I’ve interpreted that correctly? He hasn’t finished growing and hasn’t done a lot, at least recently?

I would be looking at strengthening and careful work now, probably without a rider. I’d be mindful of how much of that happens on a surface/ lunging too. Long reining out and about might be good if he’s safe enough?

Based on the pic, he looks weak behind. I’d want to know whether the shaping behind the saddle is skeletally influenced or unusual muscle deposition- could be symptomatic of compensatory movement somewhere else?

I see that nothing has been found from a vet perspective - have a very holistic look at the whole horse (not all vets are good at this ) I’d want to have a big look at feet and biomechanics- his size won’t be doing him any favours based on my experiences.

He moves really well and is forwards and quite balanced for a baby horse. He is super to lunge and holds himself really well too. I know you say about his size but there are many ridden and working hunters his size that have long careers, so I don’t feel him being a big boy is an issue.

 

[jo_wales_86]

I would echo the first sentence here.
Other than that, have you tried getting on, but standing in the stirrups for the first few strides then gradually and gently sitting down? It used to work for me with a horse that was 'cold backed'. (This was in the days before up to date knowledge about back and other ridden problems). I would say though, that his response was, if you forgot to get on gently, to hump his back and usually buck, not sink down. The only sinking I usually see is when adults get on their kids little ponies to 'ride them in' or whatever.

No we haven’t tried the standing in stirrups but will do, he only does it from a block not a leg up.

 

[ihatework]

No we haven’t tried the standing in stirrups but will do, he only does it from a block not a leg up.

Does he do it if you mount from the ‘wrong’ side off a block.
I wonder if the non even mounting/momentary pressure could be the cause? Often pinching from the saddle.
Try heightening the block and stepping on without putting weight through one stirrup and see what happens.

 

[Jenko109]

A few people have asked, but I cannot see that you have answered.

What checks did the vet do?

 

[TPO]

This book might help you understand why some of us are concerned. It's a really helpful addition to any horse owner/riders bookshelf:

https://amzn.eu/d/hQUTOJt

I had an Arab that would squat like some Star Wars monster for 2-4 strides when mounted. Vet said fine, physio said fine, asked for referral to hospital for a work up and they said fine but try a made to measure saddle, said saddle was purchased and still no difference. It wasn't until I, through a random chain of events, let a McTimoney-Corely practitioner use the mare as a guinea pig for her massage qualification that a cause was found.

The pelvis was completely out of alignment, caused by a fall with previous owner. As soon as it was pointed out it became the most obvious thing ever. A change of vet practice helped too. It was a long, slow road correcting and repairing the damage.

There shouldn't be the shape that is present over the loins. His front end is overdeveloped and back end is under developed. I know that he is young and hasnt done much but that is even more of a reason why his body should be more balanced than it is.

The linked book also goes into depth about posture, the impact of Hoof balance and the "blockages" caused by sore/inflamed/damaged muscle. I really think it would help you to see the whole horse and perhaps pursue the vet further.

 

[Melody Grey]

This book might help you understand why some of us are concerned. It's a really helpful addition to any horse owner/riders bookshelf:

https://amzn.eu/d/hQUTOJt

I had an Arab that would squat like some Star Wars monster for 2-4 strides when mounted. Vet said fine, physio said fine, asked for referral to hospital for a work up and they said fine but try a made to measure saddle, said saddle was purchased and still no difference. It wasn't until I, through a random chain of events, let a McTimoney-Corely practitioner use the mare as a guinea pig for her massage qualification that a cause was found.

The pelvis was completely out of alignment, caused by a fall with previous owner. As soon as it was pointed out it became the most obvious thing ever. A change of vet practice helped too. It was a long, slow road correcting and repairing the damage.

There shouldn't be the shape that is present over the loins. His front end is overdeveloped and back end is under developed. I know that he is young and hasnt done much but that is even more of a reason why his body should be more balanced than it is.

The linked book also goes into depth about posture, the impact of Hoof balance and the "blockages" caused by sore/inflamed/damaged muscle. I really think it would help you to see the whole horse and perhaps pursue the vet further.

I have seen pelvis alignment issues from falls too that haven’t been diagnosed by a vet until quite far down the line. Also a horse who had one femur formed longer than the other which caused no end of issues and wasn’t picked up until several referrals down the line. I’d keep looking, I suspect there’s an answer but it hasn’t been found yet.

 

[sbloom]

OP given that the back has been xray'd and other vet checks done with no findings then a good next step would be an experienced saddle fitter.

And if that was me I'd be saying that he has visible signs of postural issues and would likely be better with a bit of groundwork than being ridden, and that any saddle fitted now shouldn't fit in a few weeks/months of you get the work right.

see that nothing has been found from a vet perspective - have a very holistic look at the whole horse (not all vets are good at this ) I’d want to have a big look at feet and biomechanics-

Yep, posture/movement/biomechanics, vets aren't trained to judge much beyond lameness, by their own admission. So many minor issues leadz down the line, to lameness. Recognise and sort it now and you'll avoid that heartache and expense.

Have a look at the resources on equitopiacenter.com for topline etc. He has little muscle under the saddle, it's flat instead of plumped up,.and hollows either side of the wither. He is camped under in the photo so worth monitoring this, it's usually combined postural and hoof balance/function interviews.

Then behind my current best understanding is he's struggling to control his pelvis and so has slightly funky stuff going on as already commented on. The pelvis is critical in helping horse avoid "falling forwards" which is basically how they move, made worse when carrying us. It means they overortate their ribcage, often counter rotating (dropping it to the outside instead of the inside causing saddle slip, on one rein). These are all signs that they are compensating.

They can still feel great, especially do you rider with a reasonably strong contact. Going this route doesn't cost much more than time. Give it a go.

For posture I'm currently recommending a new course from Annie Dillon Horsemanship, set up well for visual learners in particular. Most horses would benefit from it, in fact most horses have at least mild postural issues, were so used to their compensations we don't see the dysfunction any more.

 

[Cortez]

It’s not possible to comment with any solutions without seeing the horse in the flesh, but there’s a lot going on with the hind end of this horse.

 

[jo_wales_86]

It’s not possible to comment with any solutions without seeing the horse in the flesh, but there’s a lot going on with the hind end of this horse.

Actually there isn’t, he’s had a vet look at him.

 

[jo_wales_86]

Does he do it if you mount from the ‘wrong’ side off a block.
I wonder if the non even mounting/momentary pressure could be the cause? Often pinching from the saddle.
Try heightening the block and stepping on without putting weight through one stirrup and see what happens.

Thank you shall try this

 

[jo_wales_86]

And if that was me I'd be saying that he has visible signs of postural issues and would likely be better with a bit of groundwork than being ridden, and that any saddle fitted now shouldn't fit in a few weeks/months of you get the work right.



Yep, posture/movement/biomechanics, vets aren't trained to judge much beyond lameness, by their own admission. So many minor issues leadz down the line, to lameness. Recognise and sort it now and you'll avoid that heartache and expense.

Have a look at the resources on equitopiacenter.com for topline etc. He has little muscle under the saddle, it's flat instead of plumped up,.and hollows either side of the wither. He is camped under in the photo so worth monitoring this, it's usually combined postural and hoof balance/function interviews.

Then behind my current best understanding is he's struggling to control his pelvis and so has slightly funky stuff going on as already commented on. The pelvis is critical in helping horse avoid "falling forwards" which is basically how they move, made worse when carrying us. It means they overortate their ribcage, often counter rotating (dropping it to the outside instead of the inside causing saddle slip, on one rein). These are all signs that they are compensating.

They can still feel great, especially do you rider with a reasonably strong contact. Going this route doesn't cost much more than time. Give it a go.

For posture I'm currently recommending a new course from Annie Dillon Horsemanship, set up well for visual learners in particular. Most horses would benefit from it, in fact most horses have at least mild postural issues, were so used to their compensations we don't see the dysfunction any more.

Thank you, I shall have a look at this.