Flexee-Opinions anyone on Heather Moffat range?

sjp1

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OP- have you looked into treeless saddles? One of the makes that have been around for ages and have good rep?
Personally i have only seen a bit of what she wrote on here, but even if she were nice i just don't like the look or the concept of her saddles, for me its either with a proper tree or without one at all, a soft tree, really? so like a half baked cake, neither a cake nor cake mix, tastes diguisting and you can't do much with it. and believe me i am far from being a traditionalist, i have one of these on order :D
http://www.totalcontact.eu/en/saddle.php
How will the stirrup pressure be dispersed? Looks like a roller with stirrups?
 

cptrayes

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They are made in India - but that is only because she was approached by an Indian bloke who wanted to go into business with her. She looked into the working conditions and quality of work over very carefully before she struck a deal - at least that is her version of events.
Are they ?!?!?!

What happened to Nurseys (sheepskin coat manufacturer) who used to make them. Another broken business relationship in Heather's history?

Anyway, I wouldn't have Heather Moffet in my house but the woman can teach riders, and as treeless go hers are lovely.

My experience of Fhoenix saddles is that they are not robust and if you do enough work to make your horse sweat, it will impregnate the felt that lies inside the leather of the flaps, stiffen when it dries and is impossible to get out because it's covered with the leather.

If prolite is still being used for the panels, it squashes down permanently in use over time and the panels need replacing but they are in velcro pockets and it's easier than having a conventional saddle replaced.

Personally they made me ride leaning forwards, which I didn't do before and have not done since I stopped using them.

On one of my horses got marks under the stirrup bars. On the other one got hollow shoulders. I stopped using them because of this.

I would not recommend them if you do a lot of "robust" riding, on hills, weight in your stirrups, etc. I would not recommend them if you are heavy, they do not spread weight like a tree does. I would not jump in one if you paid me, they are not stable enough on the horse's back if you lose your own balance. I could never mount in one from the ground, I always had to find a wall or bank to stand on, or they slip.

For those having trouble fitting babies who keep changing, there are quite a few makes with changeable gullet plates now including some good ones from GFS. The ultimate, if you can get on with them, is to buy a WOW which you should never need to part-ex because it is so ajustable. You can even buy a pump and do it yourself if you have the saddle fitting expertise.
 

Oberon

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Are they ?!?!?!

What happened to Nurseys (sheepskin coat manufacturer) who used to make them. Another broken business relationship in Heather's history?
From what I understand the FlexEE is a budget saddle and the cheaper cost of production in India allows this.

I believe the Vogues and Fhoenix's are still made in the UK, which is reflected in price.

The Fhoenix I had is now at least 3rd hand but (apart from the usual stirrup leather marks) it still looks brand new.
 
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is to buy a WOW which you should never need to part-ex because it is so ajustable. You can even buy a pump and do it yourself if you have the saddle fitting expertise.
This was another option that I was wondering about. Is it better to get one of these from the off? I went through so many saddles with my mare when she came into work, I'd probably have spent less if I'd just got a WOW and had it fitted regularly.
 

cptrayes

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This was another option that I was wondering about. Is it better to get one of these from the off? I went through so many saddles with my mare when she came into work, I'd probably have spent less if I'd just got a WOW and had it fitted regularly.
They have saved me an absolute fortune over the 7 years I've had them because I always buy babies or undeveloped horses. I love them. Lots of people hate them. My horses adore them and the freedom that they get through the shoulders because of the carbon fibre jointed tree, which allows the front arch to swing.

There are always a number for sale on eBay which you can get a fitter to fit for you, but you would need to have an idea of what panel you need.
 

PingPongPony

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But are you going to don a bikini to ride in it as per the photos in your link? :p
OOh - that looks interesting.

How to they equate the stirrup bar pressure?
How will the stirrup pressure be dispersed? Looks like a roller with stirrups?

Faracat - you know what i haven't tought about it but i should think that a ride on the beach in a bikini on a hot day won't actualy look that attractive, especially with a hat and all the horse hair sticking to your bum :p

Oberon & sjp1 - tbh i am not entirely sure BUT the seller has assured me that the checks have been done, and i also found one of these used and talked about it with the person that was selling it and the woman said that she rode her horses is it regularly and competed BSJA and done a few BE's on a ticket, non of her horses had any problems and her back person hasn't had to do anything last time they came. so, we'll see. i've ordered it because most of the time i ride bareback anyway, the problem i have is that i can't hack, xc or compete bareback because of insurance and health adn safety rules at comps, so i MUST have a saddle. This is as close as i have found to bareback and competition legal so i thought its worth a try. when it come i shall get my back person out and put it on a horse and see what we think, if it doesn't work then i'll sell it :)

But god i hope it works cuz it looks so cool and it would just be the best solution for me! The fact that i don't have my own horse but loan one won't matter as this is supposed to fit anything so i can just put it on whatever horse i have at the time, so fingers crossed :D i'll sure post a thread about it on here when it arrives and once i've tried it.
 

Ladydragon

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After her display of her true colours in Sospbox, I won't ever buy her stuff again.
Wouldnt touch any of her stuff after her display on here!
This...:D

In all seriousness though I was absolutely gobsmacked at the attitude and superiority complex shown in glorious technicolour... Screen shot buttons were probably in overdrive... :D I had been looking at the Flexee as my youngster should be ready to back later this year if he levels out but... But after that drama, there is no way I would put a penny of my hard saved cash in her pocket...

I'll probably pick up a Thorowgood and let Mr Saddler do his magic to fit it as appropriately as he can over the next few years until the youngster has got to his final shape... The price isn't that different and in all fairness to Thorowgood, when I picked up a second hand pony saddle that was missing some fish, they came up trumps digging some out and forwarding them...
 
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They have saved me an absolute fortune over the 7 years I've had them because I always buy babies or undeveloped horses. I love them. Lots of people hate them. My horses adore them and the freedom that they get through the shoulders because of the carbon fibre jointed tree, which allows the front arch to swing.

There are always a number for sale on eBay which you can get a fitter to fit for you, but you would need to have an idea of what panel you need.
Thanks for the feedback. I will look into WOWs more seriously. :)
 

HashRouge

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Thanks for the feedback. I will look into WOWs more seriously. :)
Make sure you find a recommended fitter if you do go down the WOW route. Everything I've heard suggests that the saddle is as good as the fitter, and a bad fitter can really, really mess things up. This is what happened with mine - it ended up being the worst saddle experience of my entire life, and I wasted a LOT of money in the process. Bear in mind that I was 17 when I got mine and had saved up for years to be able to afford a decent saddle. It was just one disaster after another.
 

intouch

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Last I heard the Flexee won't be in general production for a couple more months, but I have heard no bad reports from anyone who has had a protopype. I have 2 on order, so will update when I have had a chance to try them.
I'm disappointed with the attitude of some of the posters on this thread, but I suppose it's none of my business if you choose to cut off your nose to spite your face.
 

rhino

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I'm disappointed with the attitude of some of the posters on this thread, but I suppose it's none of my business if you choose to cut off your nose to spite your face.
There are plenty of other saddles out there, with a proven track record. I fail to see how it is some sort of magical product that doesn't have an equal or better already in place.

I'm disappointed that someone I admired continues to make defamatory comments about the users of this forum - as recently as a couple of hours ago.
 

Ladydragon

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I'm disappointed with the attitude of some of the posters on this thread, but I suppose it's none of my business if you choose to cut off your nose to spite your face.
I think that was managed quite successfully by the person who has lost out on potential business... Unless customers are no longer required...
 

horsemad32

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Last I heard the Flexee won't be in general production for a couple more months, but I have heard no bad reports from anyone who has had a protopype. I have 2 on order, so will update when I have had a chance to try them.
I'm disappointed with the attitude of some of the posters on this thread, but I suppose it's none of my business if you choose to cut off your nose to spite your face.
So you're buying a saddle you haven't tried and don't know will suit your horse, for which there is no pressure data and that hasn't yet gone beyond the prototype. And this despite the experiences of people on this thread and others, where previous hm saddles have damaged their horses backs. Do you even know how this flexible tree will distribute weight? If you press down on something flexible there is no pressure distribution just cushioning. Now why would i want to join you? I have a torsion that is about ten years old and has never caused a day's trouble. I can jump in it and ride for twenty miles in it without fear of damage to my horse. I Also have treed saddles that fit when i want to use them.
 

HashRouge

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And this despite the experiences of people on this thread and others, where previous hm saddles have damaged their horses backs.
In all fairness, and not trying to start an argument about the pros or cons of HM saddles, this could be said about every saddle, ever. We all know that certain saddles just don't suit certain horses. My own mare got muscle wastage from a WOW saddle but I don't go around rubbishing them to other people because that was our specific experience. A lot of other people love them. It is exactly the same with HM's saddles.
 

Parker79

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Thanks everyone - lots to think about.

Intouch - Its not that I have a particular problem with HM - Its simply that my saddler soes not fit her products and I am not confident to fit it myself, I do not know the local fitter of these....I would rather use my own saddler.
I wanted to look at a flexee as I had 'hoped' that finally the 'one saddle fits everything' was actually true!

I get the impression from what is being said that these saddles are probably amazing with a very balanced, light rider doing dressage...provided they fit the particular horse....pretty much the same as any saddle except that some saddles possibly take on more impact that others and can distribute the riders weight slightly better.

I will be going down the changeable gullet route...the thing is, I already have a Bates Cair...but I cannot see that fitting him even when changed, I think he needs VSD. My friend is on her 2nd expensive changeable saddle...she is still having trouble due to her mare being ...well....a nightmare to fit!!

I like the thorowgoods, will ask saddler her opinion.

You have all helped so much...thank you :):)
 

intouch

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Parker79, I wasn't implying that you had a problem with HM, but it's interesting that so many people have come on here condemning the Flexee when evidently they haven't had the opportunity to try it, and that's what you were particularly asking about.

I'm possibly lucky in that I've had no bad experiences with HM products, so am confident that they will live up to expectations. Like any other product, if there is any likelyhood of them being less than comfortable for my horses, they will be returned with feedback.

If you haven't already, check them out on http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/flexee_intro.htm
 

PolarSkye

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Parker79, I wasn't implying that you had a problem with HM, but it's interesting that so many people have come on here condemning the Flexee when evidently they haven't had the opportunity to try it, and that's what you were particularly asking about.

I'm possibly lucky in that I've had no bad experiences with HM products, so am confident that they will live up to expectations. Like any other product, if there is any likelyhood of them being less than comfortable for my horses, they will be returned with feedback.

If you haven't already, check them out on http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/flexee_intro.htm
My response had nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the producer. IMHO, someone who can proactively be as petulant and petty as she was on this forum isn't someone I particularly want to give my money to . . . no matter how good (or not) her products are. She isn't the only saddler and therefore doesn't corner the market. Horses for courses, as they say.

I also seconded what Cedars said about Thorowgood and/or Kent & Masters - I have a K&M saddle, it fits my horse nicely, looks smart, is comfy and is easy for my saddler to change the gullet as and when Kal changes shape.

I have had no experience with HM's products at all (unless you count a couple of her books), but I have had a negative experience with HM herself. Put me right off.

P
 

TigerTail

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Well personally I think its bonkers not to try a HM saddle based on an over heated thread on the internet. Especially with the minefield that saddles are!

I have a vogue and love it, now have a very spoilt derriere that is unhappy on anything else :p I know lots of people with them who have nothing but good to say about them, also know a few who didnt get on with them. At the end of the day not every saddle will suit every horse, however these to my mind have the least likelihood of doing actual damage.

Rider style and weight do play a part with these saddles too, if you are one sided/insecure it will show up quickly!

For the person who said soft treed is like half baked cake - what a weird way to look at it! For me its the best of both worlds! Its not got the rigid parts which in so many cases cause atrophy, shortened stride and back pain but it does have layer upon layer of shock absorbing materials to support the rider and spread the weight, rather than a thin pad with stirrup bars attached like the cheaper treeless saddles!
 

JFTDWS

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Oh dear, another thread in which I agree with rhino and dafthoss (and others, inc PS)... I don't buy into magic fixes at the best of times, I would have reservations about the design of these, and I certainly wouldn't be inclined to offer money to the likes of HM after the display on here, when there are alternatives out there which suit my horses fine.
 

touchstone

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My response had nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the producer. IMHO, someone who can proactively be as petulant and petty as she was on this forum isn't someone I particularly want to give my money to . . . no matter how good (or not) her products are. She isn't the only saddler and therefore doesn't corner the market. Horses for courses, as they say.

I also seconded what Cedars said about Thorowgood and/or Kent & Masters - I have a K&M saddle, it fits my horse nicely, looks smart, is comfy and is easy for my saddler to change the gullet as and when Kal changes shape.

I have had no experience with HM's products at all (unless you count a couple of her books), but I have had a negative experience with HM herself. Put me right off.

P



I'd tend to agree with this, even if her saddle is good, with the attitude that was displayed here and several other forums that I've seen, then I'm afraid I'd be wary of the outcome if I or my horse had problems with the saddle.
 

Littlelegs

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I must be yet another member of the rhino, Dafthoss, polarskye etc clique, I wouldn't want to in any way support her business after the arrogant, rude & self important attitude she portrayed on here. It's not like her saddle is a unique product, so my business would go elsewhere. Likewise if I wanted a classical instructor there's plenty more to choose from.
 

cptrayes

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There are plenty of other saddles out there, with a proven track record. I fail to see how it is some sort of magical product that doesn't have an equal or better already in place.

I'm disappointed that someone I admired continues to make defamatory comments about the users of this forum - as recently as a couple of hours ago.
There is no love lost between me and Heather Rhino, but there really is no other treeless saddle on the market with the level of padding inbuilt that hers have, the ability to shim in velcro pockets as required coupled with a conventional enough look to ride BD in them. All the others seen to be unconventional in looks and/or require external pads to be used for protection.

The leather used is gorgeous beyond belief and the seat has an inbuilt seatsaver which is also unique, I believe.

As treeless go, they are good, but I would echo that my experience of customer service from Heather was difficult to say the least, but from Tim Nursey, the sheepskin coat manufacturer who makes the expensive ones, exemplary. If anyone has problems, go direct to Tim.
 

rhino

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There is no love lost between me and Heather Rhino, but there really is no other treeless saddle on the market with the level of padding inbuilt that hers have, the ability to shim in velcro pockets as required coupled with a conventional enough look to ride BD in them. All the others seen to be unconventional in looks and/or require external pads to be used for protection.
I thought you were all about function over form? ;) :D Actually I have ridden in quite a few of her saddles, and have seen the prototype of the new one. Personally I don't like the look of them, and I don't like riding in them. Most of our classical beasties are either in Bates or Wows :)
 

Orangehorse

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Treeless should be absolutely fine for dressage, but I would have doubts about using one where a rider is going to be standing up in the stirrups for a long time, like hunting or endurance, or simply hacking at a fast pace over a day.

There are plenty of people who have treeless saddles and they are very pleased with them.
It might be worthwhile going onto an Endurance site to find out experiences there.
 

cptrayes

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I thought you were all about function over form? ;) :D
You got me right :D

Unfortunately, there are plenty of treeless's on the market that are so unconventional in looks that they will not pass the rules for riding a BD test. That's function over form I can't accept :D

They didn't work for me and I only have WOWs now. Love 'em. Just off to ride on two. One at a time, you understand, I'm not that clever ;)
 
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