Flooding? Sign this to get something done!
- Thread starter Dry Rot
- Start date
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
done
Makemineacob
Well-Known Member
I have signed but I'm afraid the petition is a fruitless one, apparently......we are unable to dredge whilst members of the EU and their water framework policy!!!!!
Makes my blood boil after so many people have suffered and we came within inches of losing everything when the river behind our property reached a unprecedented 6.3m high. There was a woman from the EA on the TV the other evening who had the audacity to claim that dredging the rivers wouldn't have helped save properties!! Seems to me everyone apart from the EA and government can see that dredged rivers offer far more protection from flooding!!!!
Makes my blood boil after so many people have suffered and we came within inches of losing everything when the river behind our property reached a unprecedented 6.3m high. There was a woman from the EA on the TV the other evening who had the audacity to claim that dredging the rivers wouldn't have helped save properties!! Seems to me everyone apart from the EA and government can see that dredged rivers offer far more protection from flooding!!!!
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Yep good old EU ! Plus I think you will find the responsibility has now passed to the landowner to carry out the work . It would be partly helped if they stopped building in areas that flood and any paved area just adds to it so it is not just dredging. We have some of the lowest land in Britain 15ft below sea level but we have to pay all the drainage system maintenance cost so why are others different.
Perhaps a petition to stop the unprecedented rainfall may solve the problem as thats the real cause
Makemineacob
Well-Known Member
Yes, you're right in regards to keeping drainage ditches clear etc. We live alongside the Tidal River Ouse and even before the flooding the banks were crumbling into the river just adding to the build up, the EA don't seem to think this is an issue either. I don't mean to sound rude but what the heck do the EA actually do??
shadowboy
Well-Known Member
Dredging can work but can also cause disastrous consequences downstream. It's a tough one. My husband works for the EA and spent most of his career on the flood management team (now in water management) he moved because whatever the EA did people always slated them and said they did it wrong. After 8 years of it he got downhearted and moved departments.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
You cant win , someone is going to get flooded whatever . Dredging moves huge volumes of water en mass downstream towards residential areas . Every farmer who clears his ditches adds to the problem . Who is to Blame?
Quit the EU ,and pay farmers for things WE need , such as water catchment and holding. We cannot resolve our problems till we leave the EU.(no confusion with EA please)
Quit the EU ,and pay farmers for things WE need , such as water catchment and holding. We cannot resolve our problems till we leave the EU.(no confusion with EA please)
maisie06
Well-Known Member
Done..
madmav
Well-Known Member
Wishing all well in the floods to get safe soon. Saw this article, the Dutch know a bit about being in near sea level.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/16/flooding-netherlands#img-1
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/16/flooding-netherlands#img-1
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
It was my understanding that farmers aren't allowed to clear their ditches/waterways? Is that untrue?
Mike007
Well-Known Member
news to me!The water entering a farmers land often comes from the farm next door ,so where does it stop and who pays.
shadowboy
Well-Known Member
Technically you must apply for a licence from the EA to change any form of flood storage. So farmers who own land that is considered floodplain aren't supposed to.... But they do. Farmers who own land that isn't floodplain will be allowed to maintain their own drainage ditches as long as it does not divert water to other catchments/drainage basins
BBP
Well-Known Member
I love that people expect EA to cope with unprecedented rainfall but aren't willing to pay more taxes for the privilege. Where do you think money for dredging comes from? As for WFD, part of it is about restoring meanders and reconnecting rivers to their flood plain, slowing the rate at which water passes downstream. By continually straightening, channelising and dredging you speed the flow of water downstream, passing it to other communities further downstream, in the same way that a reduction of vegetation cover reduces the capacity to retain water. Saying all we need to do is dredge is overly simplistic when what we are talking about is phenomenal amounts of water falling from the sky. What do the EA do? They work their backsides off day in and day out to reduce pollution and minimise flood risk, making your environment a healthier place. They get slated left right and centre of their trouble. Where is the accountability for people who have purchased properties in a flood plain, what steps have they take to protect their own property instead of expecting the government to do everything for them?
Don't get me wrong, I feel desperately sorry for people there, those with land destroyed and property ruined, the vulnerable. I get that people need someone to blame. But there is so much misinformation out there it's easy to blame people who aren't at fault.
Don't get me wrong, I feel desperately sorry for people there, those with land destroyed and property ruined, the vulnerable. I get that people need someone to blame. But there is so much misinformation out there it's easy to blame people who aren't at fault.
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shadowboy
Well-Known Member
In agreement
EmmasMummy
Well-Known Member
On FB that Greg Barker guys is getting a slating from a Sab group for going hunting in 2013 and not helping the flooding that has just happened..............gotta love that logic......
Pedantic
Well-Known Member
Maybe if they didn't keep building on flood plains, greedy builders need to take "some" responsibility",they throw a pile of estates up plus all the other crap that goes with it like McDonalds etc, maybe the EA could save some money by not sticking "No Horses" signs on canal routes as well.
No one wants to tackle the bigger picture, so it's all a sticky plaster approach to everything by the powers that be, as they know in 6 years time it's some other vacuum in a suit and ties problem, meanwhile we all are stuck with the result.
No one wants to tackle the bigger picture, so it's all a sticky plaster approach to everything by the powers that be, as they know in 6 years time it's some other vacuum in a suit and ties problem, meanwhile we all are stuck with the result.
Kaylum
Well-Known Member
Yes stop building next to rivers we have a village near us (York) and it's built by the river and has been expanded over the years. The whole village is ruined by flooding year after year. They want flood defences to stop their village flooding but hang on you live by the river putting up flood defences stops you getting flooded but does not help others as it just pushes the water elsewhere. It is also for some reason a very expensive village to live in.
Makemineacob
Well-Known Member
I agree that building on flood plains needs to be stopped, however there are many old properties (ours being one) that have been here for over 100yrs (and we are not classified as being on a flood plain as many of other properties aren't) and photographic evidence shows how dramatically the landscape of the river has changed and how the banks are widening and the base of the river is getting higher. We have some huge boulders that the EA put in many years ago and when the river is at it's lowest level many of them are sitting at the bottom of the river, rather than sitting in the banks of the river as they are supposed to.
Yes it is about climate change, increased rainfall but maintenance also needs to be kept up on existing banks and dredging to return the rivers to the levels that they are supposed to be.
Agree with Kaylum, know the village you mention and yes, agree building new flood defences moves the problem elsewhere.
Yes it is about climate change, increased rainfall but maintenance also needs to be kept up on existing banks and dredging to return the rivers to the levels that they are supposed to be.
Agree with Kaylum, know the village you mention and yes, agree building new flood defences moves the problem elsewhere.
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
Over 3,000 signatures now.
Not my petition but I cut-and-pasted it here from another forum because out of an ocean of stupidity and ignorance, there is hope some sense may emerge if there is enough discussion. Floods usually get forgotten once the water has gone down -- until the next time.
Never happened before? Unprecedented?
Just Google 'The Great Flood" with the filter on for a UK search!
Not my petition but I cut-and-pasted it here from another forum because out of an ocean of stupidity and ignorance, there is hope some sense may emerge if there is enough discussion. Floods usually get forgotten once the water has gone down -- until the next time.
Never happened before? Unprecedented?
Just Google 'The Great Flood" with the filter on for a UK search!
Deltaflyer
Well-Known Member
Thank goodness someone else out there understands the real issue here. It's incredible how EVERYONE they talk to on the news programmes totally skirt around this citing every other reason EXCEPT the real one.
There's a few acres near to where I work right next to the river. Currently it's home to about 20 odd gypsy cobs who've lived there happily for years. Currently there are plans afoot to build hundreds of pokey little dwellings on it. Of course, if this goes ahead the chances flooding in that area will immediately become a reality. But, shortsightedness and greed certainly do override common sense in this day and age.
BBP
Well-Known Member
Yes, 378mm of rain in 34 hours is unprecedented rainfall. No-one is saying there haven't been floods before but I said an unprecedented rainfall event. And the historical floods haven't suffered the same extent of devegetation, channelisation and over development of the environment that we have now. (Im about to go off on my obsessive rant on overpopulation and how we need a good ice age to wipe out a good chunk of the human race...so I probably had better shut up as I'm a miserable people hating hermit!)
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
The great flood was not the same cause ,that was caused by the north sea tidal surge which is mainly brought about by a certain weather and tide occurrence and hits the east coast around the wash funnily enough the last time it happened a couple of years ago people in the north didnt give a stuff either!!! Also it may surprise you it didnt even rain with that one!!
So if the rain is not unprecedented how come the weather stations in Wales and Cumbria have all recorded record 24hr rainfall figures on 3 days so far this winter. Afraid my philosophy is if you dont want to be flooded live further up a hill . All these people moaning that its only x years since they were flooded didnt learn from the first time, move it will happen again.
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atlantis
Well-Known Member
I agree. However that's pretty hard to do. My house technically isn't in a flood plane. We can't register for flood warnings etc. It still flooded 3 years ago. We have a large mortgage and at present cannot afford to move. I would love to but would you buy a house that flooded 3 years ago? When we do move I will never again buy a house in a village with 'ford' in its title lol.
We have been to many village meetings about the flooding. People were demanding flood defences built... Walls, underground reservoirs etc. It doesn't solve our problem when we are at the bottom of a bowl, which essentially we are. The water will find its way round and bs k into the village. We were told that the land owner has to maintain the river. They will not dredge, but we are not allowed to organise brook clearing for health and safety reasons.
What they have done is offer protection on a property level for the houses at risk of flooding or who did flood. So new front doors, barriers, non-return valves etc. It helps.
We haven't flooded yet this year (we're in the Midlands). Im not looking forward to this weekend with the rain forecast but forewarned is forearmed. Id rather not test the new doors though!!!
case895
Well-Known Member
Overdevelopment on land which used which used to be flood plain is a large factor. I used to live in a town where one new low-lying estate had a road named "Watermeadow Lane". It amazed me that anyone would buy a house there.
It is a combination of developers, local planners and central government over 50 years which has got us to the position where we are today with respect to flooding. It may well not be affordable or practicable to defend some areas and they have to be allowed to flood periodically.
It is a combination of developers, local planners and central government over 50 years which has got us to the position where we are today with respect to flooding. It may well not be affordable or practicable to defend some areas and they have to be allowed to flood periodically.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Whilst flood plains can be expected to flood and it is not sensible to allow the level of building that has been allowed recently on many flood plains, we should remember that much historical development was around rivers for ease of transport etc. Rather than trying to build barriers to stop flooding perhaps we should be concentrating on what happens upstream. If there was more vegetation, in particular trees and hedging, to take up the water, there would be less to descend on the habitations lower down. There has been more rainfall but the effects have been exacerbated by modern living, with paved gardens, enormous fields with no hedges etc and since the water companies were privatised their responsibility for managing watercourses has been passed onto EA, which doesn't seem to be up to the task. I am afraid that TV pics of them standing around with clipboards while the locals are using their own machinery to dig out fallen bridges does not give a good impression.
Makemineacob
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, this isn't a solution and isn't an option for everyone. There was a very interesting programme on recently that highlighted the risk of ground water flooding which affects a massive area. They showed a group of properties that were two miles away from any river etc and they regularly flooded, so it isn't just people who live near to large areas of water that face the risk.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I live very close to the top of the Pennines, there are buildings well above the bottom of the local valleys, which have had water runnning through them on its way down the hills and others which have been affected by landslips . A lot of the problem locally is caused by past planning decisions where developers have been allowed to build over springs. Many of our roads have water coming up through them atm. Yes, this is partly due to the amount of rainfall but it is also due to the lack of maintenance of culverts and even simple drain/gutter clearing. There are lots of eaasy, reasonably cheap measures wgich if done routinely would help to avoid some of the problems.
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
The cure for flooding really isn't rocket science. The problem is putting it into practice.
If more water comes into the top of a water system than comes out the bottom, there is a flood. The rate of flow is important so that water is not entering the system faster than it can drain out. Various things will help. Like keeping the drains working all year round so the water table is kept low. A low water table means there is more porous soil to absorb rainfall that can then be released slowly at a rate that the system can cope with. That is also good for farming.
At least, if we get this petition (not mine, btw, it was cut-and-pasted from another forum!) off the ground, it will force further discussion and thinking. That usually stops when the flood waters go down!
If more water comes into the top of a water system than comes out the bottom, there is a flood. The rate of flow is important so that water is not entering the system faster than it can drain out. Various things will help. Like keeping the drains working all year round so the water table is kept low. A low water table means there is more porous soil to absorb rainfall that can then be released slowly at a rate that the system can cope with. That is also good for farming.
At least, if we get this petition (not mine, btw, it was cut-and-pasted from another forum!) off the ground, it will force further discussion and thinking. That usually stops when the flood waters go down!
rachk89
Well-Known Member
These floods are why i refuse to buy a house that isn't on a hill. Haven't bought one yet but when I do I am gonna make sure it's far enough away from a river that might flood. Just couldn't go through what everyone else is having to.
It's greedy builders and councils that are to blame for building in stupid areas. Despite a local city here flooding really badly in 1995 they built housing estates in the area that flooded. Where's the sense there? Can blame the builders but the council's also gave them permission to build there.
It's greedy builders and councils that are to blame for building in stupid areas. Despite a local city here flooding really badly in 1995 they built housing estates in the area that flooded. Where's the sense there? Can blame the builders but the council's also gave them permission to build there.
shadowboy
Well-Known Member
Flood management is incredibly complicated due to the number of player involved. The EA will assess the flood risk of a river and pass that information to the councils involved. They then can choose to accept the information and prevent building development taking place or disregard it due to the 'measures' put in place by the developer. So developments may state that they are using SUDS or planting a collection of trees or whatever and the income from the development and the 'solutions' posed by the development and government building targets often 'persuade' councils to override the advice from the EA. the solutions are difficult to implement. The rate of infiltration needs to be improved; this can be assisted by grater rates of interception- mixed woodlands are the best option. Encouraging farmers to leave stalks in fields can help but all this is limited in impact due to the increase in impermeable surfaces and storm drains- the best way to prevent floods is slow the movement of water down- slower moving water will be more likely to percolate through rock and soil and groundwater flows are slower than surface water flows so the rivers don't reach bankfull discharge (flood) as easily or as quickly. Dredging a river doesn't deal with the problem it simply allows the river to have a higher capacity at that particular point- so water moves quicker at that point- but further downstream where the river is shallower that mass of water from the dredged river further upstream will suddenly arrive and will quickly cause flooding. and then the residents of that town/village etc complain about flooding that has never happened there before..... And the cycle continues...