Flooring for mobile stables - PLEASE HELP!

[Kathrynabuckley]

Hi all!

I am hoping someone will be able to advise me! Over the summer I was lucky enough to arrange a 5 year rent on 5 acres of land with the option to extend for a further 5 years. I have two horses in DIY livery, but with a 1 year old son, part time job and a 5 mile commute to the stables twice a day, it wasn't feasible to keep them on at livery and when this land came up 50m from my house it seemed too good to be true.
We applied for planning permission, got it (albeit in October) and it seemed my dream was coming true. We put the concrete pad down and the stables were due to be delivered. Then my dream turned into a nightmare! I got a phone call from united utilities and it seems that there is a intermediate pressure gas main running right under my stables! I can't put any structures within 15ft either side so now I have a large concrete pad. My boys were already in the field living out, and as the weather changed I made the decision to change my stable order to mobile ones, and put them on the ground...bad move! They used the first 24 x 12 as a field shelter and the ground is now so poached they are unusable.
I bought some stable mats hoping to solve the problem - they sunk into the mud. So, at the beginning of December, with my 29 year old feeling the cold, I made the decision to move them back to livery till I could sort something out. Due to the distance, they had to go into full livery and I now have my first bill of £610 (Eek!!).
So, background covered, what would you guys suggest for flooring? I've thought long and hard and searched the web, and the forums on here and best option seems to be railway sleepers with mats on top and deep bed? Has anyone used this? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME! I'm getting desperate and my pocket is definately feeling the pinch, and my other half is fed up of the cost of my beloved horses and threatening forcing me to sell them!! :-(
Thanks in advance
Kat

 

[Darkly_Dreaming_Dex]

Cheap solution for me was road planings which make a lovely base, i put them down, by hand, about 10" deep and then you can use a whacker plate ( cheap to hire) + planings are antipoaching round the front and then mats on top. RP cost £8 a ton delivered and i did it all myself (all 20 tons without killing myself..)I just moved one shelter and got the old planings scraped up,they went into a gateway and i started with fresh planings indoors.

 

[Bowen4Horses]

oh no, poor you. firstly, how mobile are they? can you move them from the poached bit to a non poached bit?

we have mobile stables, in a very very very muddy part of the world. but, when we put our mats down, they went onto dry ground. we don't have any problems at all (with the stables... the mud outside them is another matter entirely...)

do your stables have a decent overhang?
do they have like a rubber/plastic 'skirt' at the bottom to stop wind/rain?

x

 

[Shazzababs]

As a child we has stables with 'mud' floors they only had concrete around where the walls were as a foundation. Never had much trouble with them being muddy, but as someone else said we used them from dry. But that isn't going to help you much apart from give you hope for next year.

How about putting a massive load of wood chips in? Put a load in and use them to tramp the mud down and solid, and then either use your mats or some more on top. If the water is coming in around the base, how about a layer of straw bales around the base (on the outside) to stop it?

Good luck anyway.

 

[kerilli]

what kind of soil are you on? i suspect clay...
umm, as long as your shelters are facing away from prevailing winds (essential, i lost 2 shelters over the fence in high winds before working this out precisely) they should stay pretty dry inside - i have mud floors with cowmats on top and no mud inside.
wherever you put them, they'll get poached around the front anyway. guttering really helps though, if you haven't got this. fix it once they're in situ though or it will prob bend/snap as they flex as you move them...
i'd probably move them to a new, unpoached area (if pos), ideally handy for gateway and/or hay store to minimise your trekking through the mud, and put mats down on unpoached ground. if it's all poached, then grass mats the mesh stuff that can be used for car parks) would prob be ideal for keeping the rubber matting secure and out of the mud.
you could break up your concrete pad and use that, i guess, just another idea.
surely planning should have pointed out where the gas main was?

 

[Bowen4Horses]

^^^ echo what kerilli says about guttering. ours went on about a month later than the stables... and that's part of the reason we've got such a mud issue outside the front of the stables.

 

[PennyJ]

weed proof membrane,
gravel or scalpings or paving slabs
Rubber mats

 

[montygti]

As youve now bought mobile stables why dont you just put them on the concrete pad. I think your find that because they are not a fixed structure you can do that cause basically if they needed to do repairs to the gas main then you can move the stables out the way. Remember that portable stables are not permanant structure. It would be the same if there was a gas pipe in someones garden and built a shed. A shed is not permanant and can be moved to allow access to the pipe.

 

[foo]

We have mobile stables fixed to the floor just on grass. We have guttering and overhang on them and have just deep littered. We take all the straw out at the end of the winter and re bed down again. Have found this works very well.

 

[Tnavas]

Find the highest spot and remove the top soil, use a deep bed of pea gravle that continues around the outside area - guttering is a must - you can catch the water in a barrel if you can't drain it more permenantly.

 

[Kathrynabuckley]

Thanks for all your suggestions guys!! The small paddock where the stables are is rather muddy to say the least but other four acres is bone dry - typical!
My concern with planings is that this may be considered hardstanding and therefore need planning.
We asked the question about planning not indicating there was a gas main and apparently it's not there responsibility although they could have suggested we did a utilities search.
I asked uu about mbile stables on concrete. Answer was convoluted o say the least. They Were initially positive but then said that as the horses would be in them and if there was an emergency they would have to handle them and they weren't trained. When I mentioned that they would have to contact me to gain access through the locked gate, he said, no we would cut the lock! So my response was that the horses would get out onto the road, but he said that they have herrace fence panels and they would herd them back and contain them, well isn't that handling them! As I said,I wouldn't like their chances and as I only live a minute up the road, it would mAke more sense to contact me!!! Aghhh!
Have guttering bt was put up a couple of dats after stables and have grassmats outside stables.
I was thinking railway sleepers with mats ontop and bed? Do you think that'd work?

 

[kerilli]

sleepers get slippery, you'd have to connect the mats together imho, as horses tend to skid on the stable mats in shelters, as they sometimes enter at speed, muck around in there, exit at speed, etc. if you did this, i think they'd work well... not cheap though!

 

[montygti]

If i was you put the stables on the lovely concrete that uve had done. On my gate ive got a sign made up " in case of emergecies call this number " I would gaurantee that as soon as the workers see the sign they would ring and not cut the lock off. Just remember when you speak to uu you are chatting to some dumb ass that has probably never left the office the lads that do the job have much more common sense and you wont have an issue. To be honest it will be a very rare chance that they would ever have to touch that gas pipe and as you live so close it wouldnt matter.

 

[russianhorse]

As monty2006 has suggested, I would do exactly the same by putting the shelters on the concrete and then putting a sign on the gate.

The chances of needing access to the gas line is pretty slim, so why waste a perfectly good flooring!.and if they did, you can move the shelters

 

[Maggie2]

A medium pressure gas main that has an escape is highly volatile and they haven't time to worry about getting hold of someone to get gates unlocked. The land owners will know it is there as there will be an Easement granting the right for its presence, together with a clause saying that access is required at all times and in an emergency without notice. It was for them to have told you that the main was there.

Someone we know has a shelter facing away from the worst of the weather, this had to be 'mobile' due to LA refusing PP for permanent one, they were unable to have concrete as well. But this land, although shelter went on dry ground, seems to throw water up from underneath and there are areas that the pea gravel, topped with slabs, then mats have dipped down a long way.

I think that in fact they aren't even supposed to have the pea gravel and slabs.

 

[montygti]

Maggie your right a med gas main is volatile but for starters if there was a gas leak there they would shut the gas off at the nearest valve. They wouldnt go rushing is and smashing concrete if there was a leak there as any sparks off the concrete result in a bang so they would turn up on site and might take the gate lock off but wouldnt touch the concrete until the gas supply is switched off at the nearest valve. Like i said they do have brains.

 

[Kathrynabuckley]

Yes there is an easement on the gas main and this states that no 'permanent structure' can be placed within 30ft (15ft either side) of the main. They stated that even a garden shed is considered 'permanent' and this wouldn't be allowed. It was the landowners responsibility to tell us it was there, but he didn't, we forked out a fortune and are paying the price in money and stress, but I don't want to kick up a fuss as I don't want to lose the land!
Luckily, I've been at my livery yard for 20 years and my younster was bred there, so I have a good relationship with the owner and when I made the decision to move them back they were tucked up in warm stables within 4 hours!
I reckon, if I get crossing timbers which are 12'6 or thereabouts, but get the untreated foreign timber (which is supposed to be really resilient to rotting!? and £8 each rather than £26 each!) then it'll cost c. £500 to floor the both 12X24 units. Which is alot, but if you think its costing me between £500 and £600 a month in livery bills!! probably worth it??
Otherwise, its road planings / hardcore and run the risk of falling foul of planning OR putting them on the hardstanding with emergency cntact number etc now it has blown over with UU and seeing what happens??

Urghhh...so confused as what to do for the best!?

K

 

[montygti]

Most land has easements for access ive got several on mine. Who stated that a shed is a permanent structure. In the eyes of the law through planning a shed is a movable object that is not attached to the foundations which is why we dont need planning to put them in our back gardens same as loose boxes. they are all classed as tempory structures and as yours are on skids yours are classed as moveable temp structures which are even better. So put them on the concrete and put a sign up, i can promise that you wont have a problem.

 

[Maggie2]

And I can assure you that a concrete raft over the top of a main, any main, is considered a permanent structure.

 

[montygti]

Yes your right about the concrete raft is considered a permant structure the same as a road but you get roads built on top of pipes dont you, but not once have the asked her to remove the concrete they were more worried that they wernt trained to handle horses.

 

[Kathrynabuckley]

They've said that they're notworried about concrete now it's down. It's planning who might have the issue as we haven't complied with our planning permission and there is now just a massive lump of concrete in the corner of the field. I am thinking about reapplying for permission in another part of the field but this will cost more money!
Someone suggsted concrete sleepers but Think these will be too small. Got to get this sorted somehow in jan as we can't afford much more livery!!
Thanks for your help and keep the suggestions coming!! I'll let you know what I go for in the end!

kat

 

[Lill]

Personally i would just put the stables on the concrete. Even if it doesn't comply with planning, they will just make you remove them.... when they realise... but as they are mobile stables this shouldn't be too much of a problem!

In the meantime, perhaps fence off a corner of the field in the hope it might dry out so if/when you are required to move the stables the ground might be dry enough to put them there without too much hassle?