Flowing on from kids hacking on roads

[Wozpril]

I recently had an accident which has prevented me riding my horses at all.
One of them is a share with my daughter who is 14.
He is really well behaved, good in traffic and a sensible hack.
I was fully expecting my daughter to hack him out during the summer holidays, until I mentioned it in front of my partner, who is a cop.
He left me I no doubt that if I let a minor out on the road on a horse on her own and she was involved in an accident I could be in a lot of trouble.
The first thing police would ask is where on earth are the parents. Which would leave me wide open for a neglect type action.
Hence child and pony were grounded. Well she took him out a couple of times, but with another adult livery.
Has anyone else heard of this?
Admittedly my OH is non horsey and doesn't 'get it' I hacked out loads on my own as a child and until he said that I was happy to let my daughter.
Is it that non horsey people see the danger more than we do so sometimes we do things that are dangerous/ foolhardy without realising it as we are so used to horses it doesn't occur to us - if you know what I mean!

 

[Wozpril]

Ps not saying those who let their kids hack out are dangerous etc!!
So don't all start!!

 

[Littlelegs]

No, rubbish imo. If a 14yr old isn't competent & knowledgeable about road riding then yes, I suppose in theory you could be held responsible. But the majority of 14yr olds I know I would trust over a lot of adults. I had a teen sharer who hacked alone from 13, my insurance didn't have a problem with it.

 

[billylula]

I'd be surprised if it was actually illegal in any way as there is no actual law about how old children have to be to be left alone.

My daughter hacks out alone and she is 13, if she was involved in an accident we wouldn't be in ANY legal trouble unless she caused it.

Sorry but I think he is talking bolleaux

 

[Merrymoles]

Would your OH have felt the same if she was going out on a bicycle or is it just the horse thing that worries him? I recently took a 13-year-old out on our bikes (she hadn't ridden one for years) and I think I was more worried about her than if she'd been on a pony - and I do consider myself a responsible adult!

 

[billylula]

Ha! I absolutely HATE my kids going out on bikes and yet I am happy to let oldest dd hack alone

 

[Wozpril]

Exactely. She rides her bike everywhere and he's no problem with that!
It just really put me off when he said it cos he was really serious and I felt like I'd have seemed like a really bad parent not to take his advice!
And you can bet your bitten dollar that had I ignored him, something would have happened to them, and then we would get the 'I told you so!'
Men !

 

[Wozpril]

Bottom dollar! iPods..... As frustrating as OH's.

 

[Shay]

No disrespect to your OH - but as a legal professional I am really struggling with the idea that a parent could be held responsible for an incident involving a minor on a horse. Children are out on thier own all the time - think busses to and from school, shopping in town with friends, out on bikes etc. Even Pony Club, which is fairly conservative about a lot of things, accepts and respects the fact that kids will hack out alone or in small groups of similar ages. Both the BHS Riding and Road Safety Test and the Pony Club full test are available to take from 12 years old.

Yes the first thing the police would ask is where are the parents - but only becuase of the need to tell them of the accident. (Which is why the kids need an ICE number programmed into their mobile phone.)

The only possible way I could think of for this to be correct would be the current provision under the Animal's Act that the horse owner is legally responsible for damage caused by the horse regardless of how. So as a parent and presumeably the owner of the horse we could potentially be liable for any third party damage. But thats why we have insurance!

 

[billylula]

Shay you are totally right (and thanks for reminding me about ICE...)

 

[Wozpril]

Thank you Shay.
Good advice.
It's just so hard to convince someone who's not horsey (or any animals for that matter!) particularly if their a cop! And once the comments been made, if anything were to happen, I'd look terrible.

 

[Wozpril]

Also, I'm totally insured, both through 3rd party and gold bhs membership

 

[Dubsie]

My daughter hacks alone, or with me or a friend, or with me on a bike and has done so since she was 12 and passed her riding & road safety with the PC. I'm sure any accident is just as likely to happen whether I'm there or not. I insist on full hi viz like a Christmas tree and mobile phones strapped to person not pony, but I know she's sensible enough, pony is sensible enough, and they're insured. Could your daughter take her R&RS for now as they do highlight things that might not be obvious in the training, so as to reassure your OH she will be as safe as she can be by her own actions?.

Edited to add I do know exactly where she is going, and how long it willt ake her and I expect a call or text once she is at the furthest point (2 hrs away max, so far) and on her way back, she'll often call extra if she gets held up (shop) or detours. The threat if she doesn't let me know is I will come with the trailer to get her and cut her hack short!!

 

[ponypilotmum]

sadly, no matter how much us horsey people want to 'rubbish' it, it's true.

If you let your minor out alone and there is an accident, YOU are liable. Much the same as if you leave your minor at home alone, it's YOUR responsibility. A lot depends on the circumstances though.

There have been parents who have been prosecuted for leaving their 15yo's home alone.

Google it

The problem arises on HOW sensible your teen is, so an immature teen is seen as more vunerable, therefore you'd be in more trouble for neglect.

Generally allowing your 13yo to cycle to school is okay. Allowing your 13yo out on a 16hh horse on her own would be tricky ground as you're putting her life in the horses' hands so to speak.

Ad I'm just that someone legal does not know this! I would urge them to re check their facts with Social Services, as I did when I needed to leave my 14yo at home on their own for half an hour a day, and catch a public bus to and from school with no adult supervision, in the dark.


You can take a cycling proficiency test age 7, but you wouldn't let a 7yo cycle down the main road alone would you? The BHS test is NOT a green light to let your 12 year old children out alone on the roads, it's a certificate to say they're safe to BE on the roads.

 

[Wozpril]

Ponypilotmum, aargh I'm confused now! Don't know what to think.
When he first said it, I thought 'no way' but the more I thought about it, the more I wondered if I just didn't want to accept he was right because he's non horsey do what does he know!
It would be awful for my daughter to have an accident on her own with the pony, and then to be hauled up by social services too!
Plus, after my accidents out hacking, it's scary enough as an adult!

 

[Littlelegs]

Ring either bhs or your insurance & ask. At 14 she's old enough to go out & about without an adult. So no idea why including a horse is any different, assuming she's capable & horse suitable. No point asking ss cos as an organization riding isn't a required area of knowledge.

 

[Goldenstar]

IMO its no different from letting a fourteen year old walk along a pavement or cross a road or ride a bike on the road all of which children do roultine , in two years it's legal for your child to marry and have kids at fourteen I would have no issues with allowing a child to hack out.

 

[Honey08]

I would agree depending on the child, the roads and the horse.

Around us the roads are really quiet, so when my 13yr old stepson started hacking on his own, he had to stay on quiet roads, and had already done his riding and road safety at pony club. Added to this his pony was a total schoolmaster. I always make sure he has the stables mobile on him, which only has basic numbers stored in it - for us and blacksmith etc, so it would be easy for someone to work out who to call if need be..

I was actually more nervous letting him walk the last half mile to school with his friends for the first time when he was 12!

 

[ponypilotmum]

IMO its no different from letting a fourteen year old walk along a pavement or cross a road or ride a bike on the road all of which children do roultine , in two years it's legal for your child to marry and have kids at fourteen I would have no issues with allowing a child to hack out.

A bike doesn't weigh half a tonne and have a mind of it's own.

If you allowed your 14yo to ride a bike after dark from school, in SS eyes that's okay. If you allowed them to ride a bike after dark from a friends house, and there was an accident, and you could have given child a lift - that's neglect. School is a necessity, hacking out, sadly, isn't.

If your 14yo was riding a horse down the road and was involved in an RTA, most likely the police (and ss) would be asking where was the responsible adult.

There's a huge volume of traffic on the roads today.

It's not illegal or anything, you just have to understand that you could be in hot water if something happened.

Technically, if I wanted to stay squeaky clean and not take a risk I wouldn't ever leave my teenager at home alone, but I accept the risk. Teenager knows what to do in event of fire, never answer door etc. I have taken all precautions and covered all eventualities. Teenager is an excellent rider (doesn't like horses sadly) but I would NEVER let them hack out alone, not even on our safe as houses pony. Why? because I cannot ensure the safety of teenager and pony, because the pony is a living creature and has a brain, because NO horse or pony is 100% bombproof. My choice is more through protection of my child than worry of what the police or SS would say though If my children go out hacking, I join them on horseback, push bike or foot.

Yes, I used to hack alone as a child and teenager, but there wasn't as much traffic then.

 

[Littlelegs]

Allowing your children independence does not come under the heading of neglect if there's an accident, assuming its a reasonable level of freedom. To say you could be done for neglect for letting them cycle safely from a friends when you could have picked them up is just not how it works. Under that logic, pretty much every accident a child has could result in neglect charges.

 

[Goldenstar]

A bike doesn't weigh half a tonne and have a mind of it's own.

If you allowed your 14yo to ride a bike after dark from school, in SS eyes that's okay. If you allowed them to ride a bike after dark from a friends house, and there was an accident, and you could have given child a lift - that's neglect. School is a necessity, hacking out, sadly, isn't.

If your 14yo was riding a horse down the road and was involved in an RTA, most likely the police (and ss) would be asking where was the responsible adult.

There's a huge volume of traffic on the roads today.

It's not illegal or anything, you just have to understand that you could be in hot water if something happened.

Technically, if I wanted to stay squeaky clean and not take a risk I wouldn't ever leave my teenager at home alone, but I accept the risk. Teenager knows what to do in event of fire, never answer door etc. I have taken all precautions and covered all eventualities. Teenager is an excellent rider (doesn't like horses sadly) but I would NEVER let them hack out alone, not even on our safe as houses pony. Why? because I cannot ensure the safety of teenager and pony, because the pony is a living creature and has a brain, because NO horse or pony is 100% bombproof. My choice is more through protection of my child than worry of what the police or SS would say though If my children go out hacking, I join them on horseback, push bike or foot.

Yes, I used to hack alone as a child and teenager, but there wasn't as much traffic then.

Well how much traffic there is depends on where you live.
If its not illegal that's that .
There is no more or less risk than with many things children are allowed to do skiing useing a shot gun riding a quad bike thingy playing cricket playing rugby .
A fourteen year old can in two years set up home so I think they ought to be able to manage a hack .
Of course accidents happen that's life I am so glad my mum was kicking us out at ten to do our own thing .

 

[Pedantic]

So on a bike anyone of any age can wobble about all over the road on the path no lights no helmet no insurance no viz, but a sensible teenager can't hack a horse on the road unless they have bad parents, what utter bolloks.

I do wonder where some coppers have their brains, I phoned up the cop shop one day to ask the legal requirements for fitting fog lights to the front of my vehicle, he didn't know, so I said I won't expect to get pulled up then if there wrong, as you lot don't know.

 

[Maesfen]

Generally allowing your 13yo to cycle to school is okay. Allowing your 13yo out on a 16hh horse on her own would be tricky ground as you're putting her life in the horses' hands so to speak.

Ad I'm just that someone legal does not know this! I would urge them to re check their facts with Social Services, as I did when I needed to leave my 14yo at home on their own for half an hour a day, and catch a public bus to and from school with no adult supervision, in the dark.

Poor kids today can't do anything, feel sorry for them - sometimes!

When I was seven I used to walk to school crossing main roads and always alone; I'd do it four times a day as I went home for lunch; I also used to bike to school, same roads (think Purley Way into centre of Croydon) When I changed to senior school at 11, I had to get myself up in the morning and off to school as dad and step mum were already at work and would be back at night at least an hour before they were; it was the norm and there are still a lot like that.

You've got to let them grow up and take responsibility for themselves, sooner the better.

Sorry OP, if you and daughter are happy, I'd tell him so.

 

[tinap]

Bit of a hard one for me. I don't let my 16yr old go out on her own. I always go on my bike with her. It's not that I dont trust her or her pony, I do - she has her riding & road safety & is very sensible, but all the hacking around us is only accessible from a main road. Although it isn't a busy road, the cars that we do encounter will not ever slow down & will not think twice about squeezing past when there are cars coming in both directions. Almost every time we go out we encounter speeding idiots.

She has been bugging me to let her go on her own but I'm just not sure. If we were stabled elsewhere though, I wouldn't think twice about letting her go alone.

 

[Wozpril]

"I do wonder where some coppers have their brains"
Pedantic! Brilliant

 

[Ibblebibble]

sadly, no matter how much us horsey people want to 'rubbish' it, it's true.

If you let your minor out alone and there is an accident, YOU are liable. Much the same as if you leave your minor at home alone, it's YOUR responsibility. A lot depends on the circumstances though.

There have been parents who have been prosecuted for leaving their 15yo's home alone.

Google it

The problem arises on HOW sensible your teen is, so an immature teen is seen as more vunerable, therefore you'd be in more trouble for neglect.

Generally allowing your 13yo to cycle to school is okay. Allowing your 13yo out on a 16hh horse on her own would be tricky ground as you're putting her life in the horses' hands so to speak.

Ad I'm just that someone legal does not know this! I would urge them to re check their facts with Social Services, as I did when I needed to leave my 14yo at home on their own for half an hour a day, and catch a public bus to and from school with no adult supervision, in the dark.


You can take a cycling proficiency test age 7, but you wouldn't let a 7yo cycle down the main road alone would you? The BHS test is NOT a green light to let your 12 year old children out alone on the roads, it's a certificate to say they're safe to BE on the roads.

you'd seriously trust the social services over a legal person?? there is no legal minimum age at which a child can be left alone, there is no minimum age at which a child can ride a bike or horse unaccompanied on a road, only legal requirement is children under 14 must wear a hat (when riding a horse).

 

[Maesfen]

Ad I'm just that someone legal does not know this! I would urge them to re check their facts with Social Services, as I did when I needed to leave my 14yo at home on their own for half an hour a day, and catch a public bus to and from school with no adult supervision, in the dark.

I'm just that a parent with a teenager can't just use their common sense without calling on the authorities TBH.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Of course a 14 yr old can hack out on the roads. However, it is the parents responsibility to ensure that the child has enough commonsense, is road-aware, the horse is sane and the route acceptable.




Any responsible parent can assess how capable their child is, age is not the deciding factor. Needing to ask social services if its ok to leave a 14 yr old for 30 minutes is worrying.

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

Pretty sure when I was 14 I was hacking alone walking home from school and looking after my younger sister until parents got in from work. I don't think I was an unusually capable teenager. Think I would have gone mad if my parents never left me alone for half an hour!
From a medical point of view a child that age is entitled to make decisions about medical issues etc. if deemed to have capacity to understand. (not quite the same situation I know)
I think if they are capable and the area safe then why not I was a much more capable jockey at 14 then now

 

[cremedemonthe]

Poor kids today can't do anything, feel sorry for them - sometimes!

When I was seven I used to walk to school crossing main roads and always alone; I'd do it four times a day as I went home for lunch; I also used to bike to school, same roads (think Purley Way into centre of Croydon) When I changed to senior school at 11, I had to get myself up in the morning and off to school as dad and step mum were already at work and would be back at night at least an hour before they were; it was the norm and there are still a lot like that.

You've got to let them grow up and take responsibility for themselves, sooner the better.

Sorry OP, if you and daughter are happy, I'd tell him so.

You were brave, bet you wouldn't do that now!!
Oz