Fly rug opinions please

[EquestrianE01]

Not going to put too much detail here and won't mention which side of the debate I'm on as would like answers to be as unbiased as possible.

Situation is as follows:
Magpies have been pecking at older donkeys backs so much that they have now drawn blood.
Manager of the establishment has requested fly rugs to be worn at all times night & day, with regular checks underneath. One also has ears that burn easily, so a fly mask is to be worn at all times.
Member of staff has stated that this is unfair and that the animals should have everything removed overnight. Their argument being that the fly rugs/masks should not be worn overnight because they are nylon.
Counter argument from manager is that the animals are being pecked raw/burned and the magpies are not going to stop just because it is evening/night time, and there is no one there to put other donkeys mask on before the sun comes up and his ears burn.
CEO of the company had a phone call from the member of staff this morning expressing their concerns for the welfare of the animals. CEO has stated that they are not knowledgeable enough to know what is best and is unsure how to proceed given they have one person saying one thing and another saying something different.
Both manager and member of staff are semi-professional horse people.

So kind, wise people of HHO what are your opinions on fly rugs and masks overnight?
Fly rugs in question:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08JX42D6N/ref=cm_sw_r_api_i_XPJZZ9ZTG9TTBX6X7C5N_0?psc=1

 

[Sussexbythesea]

My two horses wear both rugs and masks day and night. Masks are checked and refitted when they’re fed morning and evening. If they come in for the day it’s all taken off to give them a break. If the weather is windy I take them off for a few hours as they enjoy grooming each other. I wouldn’t leave on for more than 2-3 days without removing for a full check and a good brush.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

My 2 have fly rugs and full face masks 24/7 , currently out full time. Both absolutely hate the flies and practically put their own fly masks back on!! Only time they come off is when I ride one, the other is retired so just take his off every now and then to check he is OK.

 

[EquestrianE01]

Thank you both for your replies

 

[Pinkvboots]

I've left masks and rugs on overnight loads of times mine are currently only having the masks on overnight as the flies were causing sore eyes, I took the rugs off weeks ago as its been so hot here and they have coped without but mine do come in for a part of the day.

Lots of horses live all summer in sweet itch rugs and masks, I have some very light weight fly rugs they are the shires Asker very cheap as well they might work for what you need.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Mine has lived in a fly rug and fly mask 24/7 many times. If he comes in to be groomed, is being exercised, or the weather allows I took it all off for a bit, but I also wasn't battling Magpies. I didn't know that they'd do such a thing.

 

[ihatework]

Personally I’d rather they got some naked time if it were feasible.

However it’s 100% not a welfare issue to have it on 24/7.

In this case staff member would have a rollocking and should defer to manager.

I’m a bit more WTF at the magpies pecking!!
Have the donkeys got critters crawling or anything?

 

[smolmaus]

What a hideous situation. Those poor donkeys.

Even if I didn't have my mare in her SI rug and fly mask 24/7 I would still say having open wounds comes much higher up the list for welfare concerns than wearing a rug all the time. In an ideal world you could take them on and off at the perfect time every day to allow naked time and prevent magpies and sunburn but there aren't many people with the perfect flexibility to do that!

 

[EquestrianE01]

Thank you everyone your replies echo pretty much exactly what I said. Hopefully when this thread is shown to the CEO it will help her make a decision.

Re. magpies and pecking: these are very very ancient donks that are extremely placid and barley say boo to a goose. The magpies were originally just pulling the loose hair out, but the old donkeys all have varying skin conditions that, my best guess is, the magpies have got a bit that is sore and just made it worse. Then because the donkeys don't fuss about it, they think they've found some amazing dead animals to pick at! That's just my theory. Doesn't much help the poor old donks though!

 

[Ambers Echo]

An SI horse can't be out without a rug all spring/summer. It's not a welfare issues. Midges are horrendous in the early morning and Lottie is odten out overnight masked and rugged. So even without the magpie issue I don;t know why anyone would be concerned - as long as rugs are removed regularly. Add in the fact that the magpies are causing significant injury - that - to me- clearly trumps any concerns about overnight rugs.

 

[milliepops]

I used to look after some donks that got pecked too. they weren't outside full time though so got a bit of respite.
I leave masks on overnight and under these circumstances would leave sheets on too. you could alternate between different types to maximise comfort, on cooler days cotton sheets might be useful for example and might be a slightly different shape to avoid rubbing etc.

 

[EquestrianE01]

I used to look after some donks that got pecked too. they weren't outside full time though so got a bit of respite.
I leave masks on overnight and under these circumstances would leave sheets on too. you could alternate between different types to maximise comfort, on cooler days cotton sheets might be useful for example and might be a slightly different shape to avoid rubbing etc.

That's a really good idea, perhaps they could wear them overnight. Would maybe make it feel less like they were just stuck in the same old rugs all the time. They get a good 2-3 hours grooming everyday, so plenty of rug off time, but the change of rug of an evening might make staff feel a bit happier.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I don't particularly like fly masks at night because I, probably erroneously, worry about them being able to see! ? But if I had a donk with ears burning in the sun then I'd give it a try and assuming he wasn't walking into things then I'd say he was fine. I might even doctor the fly mask so it just an ear cover for nighttime if I was really worried about it.

In winter my horses can wear rugs 24/7 though they get checked underneath and re-set/changed at least once in the 24 hours. I'm not sure why a fly rug would be any different! Other than if it rains then I'd definitely want to have two to rotate a bit, so they could have a dry one on if needed.

 

[Nasicus]

Mine are rugged and masked 24/7, they have absolutely no issues with seeing at night. I have cameras, so I often check on them before bed and they have no issues navigating, drinking, eating etc with them on.

 

[Birker2020]

Mine was having both fly rug and mask on over night but decided he didn't want either (ruined three rugs and his mask was off every morning) so I gave up putting fly sheets on in the end. He was clearly uncomfortable in the sheets so I stopped using them but felt I was going to persevere for longer with the mask because of the flies on his eyes.

Until one evening I approached his stable prior to turn out with the mask in my hand and he turned and retreated to the back with his head in the corner. He's never worn it since, and I won't ask him to. He couldn't have told me any clearer that he didn't want it on and I respect his viewpoint.

But I don't see any issue with them being worn on horses that don't mind wearing them 24/7 if necessary.

 

[EquestrianE01]

Mine was having both fly rug and mask on over night but decided he didn't want either (ruined three rugs and his mask was off every morning) so I gave up putting fly sheets on in the end. He was clearly uncomfortable in the sheets so I stopped using them but felt I was going to persevere for longer with the mask because of the flies on his eyes.

Until one evening I approached his stable prior to turn out with the mask in my hand and he turned and retreated to the back with his head in the corner. He's never worn it since, and I won't ask him to. He couldn't have told me any clearer that he didn't want it on and I respect his viewpoint.

But I don't see any issue with them being worn on horses that don't mind wearing them 24/7 if necessary.

I have one that hates his fly mask, alway runs away from me if he knows that I have it. He has other vision problems though so I've always assumed he just doesn't like the added difficulty with seeing. I unfortunately have to put one on him as otherwise his nose burns something rotten and he hates suncream more than a fly mask, but I always buy him the thinnest, clearest ones that I can.

 

[Birker2020]

I have one that hates his fly mask, alway runs away from me if he knows that I have it. He has other vision problems though so I've always assumed he just doesn't like the added difficulty with seeing. I unfortunately have to put one on him as otherwise his nose burns something rotten and he hates suncream more than a fly mask, but I always buy him the thinnest, clearest ones that I can.

I've tried two types now but its made no difference.

The time before I gave up that day in the stable, I'd forgotten to put it on him before I led him down the field, so turned him out and walked back in to get it.

I went up to him in the field and pulled the mask over his ears and he took off up the field with it half done up, flung his head in the air and it flew through the air and came off landing on the grass. So he ambled over to it cool as a cucumber and picked it up in his teeth and looked at me as if to say "don't want it on Mum" so I should have given up the idea then really! He's such a character!

The one morning one of the staff found him slapping the horse in the paddock next door around the face with it!

 

[EquestrianE01]

I've tried two types now but its made no difference.

The time before I gave up that day in the stable, I'd forgotten to put it on him before I led him down the field, so turned him out and walked back in to get it.

I went up to him in the field and pulled the mask over his ears and he took off up the field with it half done up, flung his head in the air and it flew through the air and came off landing on the grass. So he ambled over to it cool as a cucumber and picked it up in his teeth and looked at me as if to say "don't want it on Mum" so I should have given up the idea then really! He's such a character!

The one morning one of the staff found him slapping the horse in the paddock next door around the face with it!

Brilliant! My one is notorious for taking others fly masks off, obviously trying to show them what he wants them to do to him; no one's taken the hint so far thankfully ?

 

[smolmaus]

The one morning one of the staff found him slapping the horse in the paddock next door around the face with it!

Lari is so good ?

 

[Birker2020]

Lari is so good ?

I know, he's such a cool dude, I do love him. I've had horses with character but not ones that talk back to you by sticking their tongues out when you tick them off!

 

[lamlyn2012]

All I will say is, fly masks do restrict vision and because of that, for me, I wouldn't leave one on overnight.
Having said that you have to consider what is best for your circumstances.
I also wouldn't leave a fly rug on at night as I know a poor horse who lost his life by being tangled up in one. The thing with fly rugs is the flimsy fabric can snag and tear but the binding doesn't and that's how they can get caught up.

 

[EquestrianE01]

All I will say is, fly masks do restrict vision and because of that, for me, I wouldn't leave one on overnight.
Having said that you have to consider what is best for your circumstances.
I also wouldn't leave a fly rug on at night as I know a poor horse who lost his life by being tangled up in one. The thing with fly rugs is the flimsy fabric can snag and tear but the binding doesn't and that's how they can get caught up.

Thank you for your reply. It's always interesting to hear the other side, especially as this thread does seem to be so unanimous on the side of leaving them on.
Would you say that these are mitigating circumstances for keeping the fly rugs/masks on overnight? If it makes any difference, there are cameras on site and the animals are monitored.

 

[Squeak]

I've left fly rugs and masks on horses 24/7 for years and never had a problem. At the moment I'm not having to rug but they still have masks on.

If you're wanting a cotton type sheet for overnight, what about something like the Aussie all rounder? They're almost a cotton fly sheet.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I've left fly rugs and masks on horses 24/7 for years and never had a problem. At the moment I'm not having to rug but they still have masks on.

If you're wanting a cotton type sheet for overnight, what about something like the Aussie all rounder? They're almost a cotton fly sheet.

My boys are in the aussie all rounder. I've had loads of different makes over the years and I really really rate these!!

 

[EquestrianE01]

I've left fly rugs and masks on horses 24/7 for years and never had a problem. At the moment I'm not having to rug but they still have masks on.

If you're wanting a cotton type sheet for overnight, what about something like the Aussie all rounder? They're almost a cotton fly sheet.

My boys are in the aussie all rounder. I've had loads of different makes over the years and I really really rate these!!

Thank you both, sounds like a brilliant idea. I will forward that on so they can look into them.

 

[Jellymoon]

Thank you both, sounds like a brilliant idea. I will forward that on so they can look into them.

I also really rate the Aussie Allrounder - I have one who wears it 24/7 as he gets really bothered by fly bites, and I find it fits better and doesn’t drag on his shoulders like the nylon ones do. I think he stays cooler in it too as I never find him sweating under it like he used to in the nylon ones. Would also offer more protection from those barstward magpies.

I don’t think any of us particularly like the idea of them living in fLy rugs and masks 24/7, but being pecked alive and getting burnt ears are probably the best justification I’ve ever heard for keeping them covered.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Mine has them on at day and overnight, she gets hives otherwise , never had a problem

 

[EquestrianE01]

I also really rate the Aussie Allrounder - I have one who wears it 24/7 as he gets really bothered by fly bites, and I find it fits better and doesn’t drag on his shoulders like the nylon ones do. I think he stays cooler in it too as I never find him sweating under it like he used to in the nylon ones. Would also offer more protection from those barstward magpies.

I don’t think any of us particularly like the idea of them living in fLy rugs and masks 24/7, but being pecked alive and getting burnt ears are probably the best justification I’ve ever heard for keeping them covered.

Totally agree, I've got one with sweet itch and I hate seeing him wrapped up all summer (has to have his legs covered too) but it's better than the alternative ?‍

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I also really rate the Aussie Allrounder - I have one who wears it 24/7 as he gets really bothered by fly bites, and I find it fits better and doesn’t drag on his shoulders like the nylon ones do. I think he stays cooler in it too as I never find him sweating under it like he used to in the nylon ones. Would also offer more protection from those barstward magpies.

I don’t think any of us particularly like the idea of them living in fLy rugs and masks 24/7, but being pecked alive and getting burnt ears are probably the best justification I’ve ever heard for keeping them covered.

Even in the 40 degree heat we had my boys didn't sweat under the aussie all-rounder.

 

[irishdraft]

My horses have their fly masks on 24/7 and the itchy horse used to have his rug on 24/7. I've never had a problem with it.