Foal won't follow

Wagtail

Wagtail

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We are having huge problems getting the foal out of the stable. Mum is going frantic rearing and charging about if you try to lead her out of the stable and make her stand outside. Foal won't follow her out. If you go to put anything around the foal to guide him, Mum thinks you are trying to hurt him and charges back in. She has always been this way when scared and handling for vets, clipping or even the physio, but with a little foal in the way it is getting pretty worrying. Any tips?
 
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How is she if the foal is steered out of the stable right in front of her? Will she follow close behind or does she think youre trying to hurt him then too?
 
You really need a few more hands to help, try and guide the foal out of door first infront of mum, if foal was born in stable thats its comfort zone, I find when asking babies for the first time to come out onto concrete is very scary for them. they try and jump out as they are not sure what the surface us! try some bedding over the entrance on to outside and see if it will walk forward, maybe put a chain over mums nose for a little more control or a bridle is she responds to that.
If you try and collar the foal and lead if the mare is distressed then foal will react the same, you need to built a trust with baby while mum is calm. Eventually you could use a line around foal to make it walk forward once a head collar is in place, the Richard Maxwell book from bith to backing shows a good example.
Sadly its just lots a quiet gentle progress and keeping stress to minimum that works in the end.
 
a) You need to be firm with mum, she needs to learn that she can't just charge about like that.
b)Try ushering foal out first. Also need to get teh pair of them used to the idea of you handling foal with mum present anyway for the future. Always just keep foal between you and mum, shimmy him from your side out the door?
And or don't make her stand outside, lead her away from the stable, foal should follow! If she's being a tit though, I would have her on a lunge line and wear a hat!
 
lead the foal with two teatowels/scarves. Loop one round the base of the neck and the other round the bottom. Grab them both at the wither (like a figure of 8) That way you can steer and propell at the same time.

Be firm with the mare do not expect her to wait quietly and leave her baby, keep it in sight all the time. Foal often better in front. If necessary wrap the rope around the mares nose for extra control just whilst she gets to understand what the game is. Always keep the foal close by the mare. It won't take long before the mare realises you aren't stealing baby.
 
Capriole said:
How is she if the foal is steered out of the stable right in front of her? Will she follow close behind or does she think youre trying to hurt him then too?
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We are going to try again later this afternoon. Will try doing that. I expect she will charge around the stable and make it impossible to steer the foal out though. I have suggested to the owner that shhe practices this afternoon just going in and steering the foal around the stable before we try to get them out again.
 
Lol, I have almost forty years of experience with horses but this little foalie is a lot more than I bargained for! Oh the worry and the stress. Obviously I am a complete amateur when it comes to breeding!

jj1966 said:
You really need a few more hands to help, try and guide the foal out of door first infront of mum, if foal was born in stable thats its comfort zone, I find when asking babies for the first time to come out onto concrete is very scary for them. they try and jump out as they are not sure what the surface us! try some bedding over the entrance on to outside and see if it will walk forward, maybe put a chain over mums nose for a little more control or a bridle is she responds to that.
If you try and collar the foal and lead if the mare is distressed then foal will react the same, you need to built a trust with baby while mum is calm. Eventually you could use a line around foal to make it walk forward once a head collar is in place, the Richard Maxwell book from bith to backing shows a good example.
Sadly its just lots a quiet gentle progress and keeping stress to minimum that works in the end.
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Thanks. Good tips. I have the Richard Maxwell book!

SusieT said:
a) You need to be firm with mum, she needs to learn that she can't just charge about like that.
b)Try ushering foal out first. Also need to get teh pair of them used to the idea of you handling foal with mum present anyway for the future. Always just keep foal between you and mum, shimmy him from your side out the door?
And or don't make her stand outside, lead her away from the stable, foal should follow! If she's being a tit though, I would have her on a lunge line and wear a hat!
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Mum is a darling most of the time with excellent manners, but on the rare occasions she becomes stressed, she is a total nightmare to handle.She once sent me head first off the high end of the lorry ramp. I was lucky I wore a hat as I would have been dead otherwise landing on my head on the concrete!

Thanks, for your good advice.
 
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Thistle said:
lead the foal with two teatowels/scarves. Loop one round the base of the neck and the other round the bottom. Grab them both at the wither (like a figure of 8) That way you can steer and propell at the same time.

Be firm with the mare do not expect her to wait quietly and leave her baby, keep it in sight all the time. Foal often better in front. If necessary wrap the rope around the mares nose for extra control just whilst she gets to understand what the game is. Always keep the foal close by the mare. It won't take long before the mare realises you aren't stealing baby.
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Thanks. We are going to five her a bit of sedalin the vet left for her and yes, will try easing him out in front of her. Thanks so much for all your help and advice.
 
You must not allow the mare to walk all over you, yes she's a concerned mum but concerned mum needs to realise that baby is fine when people are near, if that requires a chain round the nose then so be it until a routine is established or someone is going to get hurt.
 
Wagtail said:
Lol, I have almost forty years of experience with horses but this little foalie is a lot more than I bargained for! Oh the worry and the stress. Obviously I am a complete amateur when it comes to breeding!
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Me too! This week has been a terrifyingly steep learning curve. What I will say is that my mare was frantically (and I mean frantic!) protective for the first couple of days. I'd been warned about mares so it didn't surprise or upset me, it was fascinating to watch, to be honest. But we're now on day 6 and there are signs of my docile little friend returning. Today I was able to stroke her neck without any ear-flattening.

It will pass and she will settle. But I'm guessing you NEED to get in and muck out, especially if bubs has got to stay in for a few days.... you'll find a way. Persevere xx
 
Thanks, Domane. You are making good progress with yours. Please she seems to be calming down now.

We have decided to leave it for today as heavy rain has set in. Will try again in the morning.
 
I've had foals do that when born indoors - they don't like moving from a dark space that they are familiar with to a light one ie. outside - too much for their tiny brain to cope with! If we get this, and it often happens with those that foal in!, get two people in stable - one to lead mare and the other to push foal in front of her - that way she can see it at all times and still maintain physical contact with it.
For a total tit of a mare that is very foal proud in a normal size stable, that is hard to get 2 people in without getting smushed - safety first!, we just leave the door open spread loads of straw about in the doorway so there is no discernable line between in and out which is what throws them the most - they will often jump out over the line of the doorway!, and either the foal or the mare will come out - even if the mare goes first she isn't going to be as panicky as when lead as she can keep going in and out to her hearts content until it wears off and she calms down - they do so don't worry!! Once they've done it a few times they'll be fine and the mare is not going to go anywhere without baby so isn't going to run off - once they are both out just calmly catch the mare.
 
Wagtail said:
We are going to try again later this afternoon. Will try doing that. I expect she will charge around the stable and make it impossible to steer the foal out though. I have suggested to the owner that she practices this afternoon just going in and steering the foal around the stable before we try to get them out again.
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Get a bridle on the mare, and tell her to get over herself. Do guide the foal out first - never out of mums sight, and just have an arm around it's bum and a hand on it's chest.

But as the weather is so pants I guess you can at least practice in the stable for the next day or so until it stops raining.....
 
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We got him out this morning. Just opened stable door and waited. Foal came charging out, followed more quietly by mother. Caught Mum and then led them out to the arena. The fields are too water-logged right now unfortunately. He had a good gallop and jump around and thoroughly enjoyed himself. :)
 
The thing I'd say is if you have limited turnout the mare and foal really need to move somewhere with 24/7 turnout as foals should be out with good shelter to promote healthy growth.
 
SusieT said:
The thing I'd say is if you have limited turnout the mare and foal really need to move somewhere with 24/7 turnout as foals should be out with good shelter to promote healthy growth.
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Not in this weather they don't. Foals aren't waterproof, and the last thing they need is a good soaking and getting cold. You can't guarantee that the mare will take them under shelter when it starts raining......

Being out 24/7 doesn't promote healthy growth. Good management does.
 
amymay said:
Not in this weather they don't. Foals aren't waterproof, and the last thing they need is a good soaking and getting cold. You can't guarantee that the mare will take them under shelter when it starts raining......

Being out 24/7 doesn't promote healthy growth. Good management does.
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Completely agree. This mare hates the field shelter and won't ever use it no matter how bad the weather is. She is the ONLY one that won't use it! :rolleyes:

Also the vet said the foal had to stay in for a few days and then have limited turnout as he had one hind foot that was turned up (it's fine now but has to take it easy for a couple of weeks.)

As soon as we get some nice dry weather he will have all the turnout he wants. :)
 
Out 24/7 or in 23/7 neither is good for a new foal and mum.
They should be out 2 or 3 hours twice a day depending on weather and in over night for first week. Then out day in night again dependant on weather.
But they do need plenty of turnout and a warm dry bed to rest.
Obviously I don't know what your foals foot is like but most new born oddities benefit from being turned out and you say he was whizzing round the school.
Have to say it doesn't sound like your in the ideal place for breeding. Mares and foals need fresh air and grass, lots of both.
 
most new born oddities benefit from being turned out
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Do they? An awful lot benefit from restricted exercise too.

Rest assured Wagtail will do an exemplary job of looking after mum and foal.
 
He will get plenty of that as soon as it is safe for him to go in the field. They were all out the whole of March, but I'm not going to risk him in muddy fields and out in the pouring rain. He has been out four hours today, which is the maximum the vet said he could go out for the first two weeks. His owner had the choice of going to the stud but wanted to keep her mare here where she was happy and settled, and where she was also able to stay 24/7 whilst on foal watch. Also, he gets handled much more and already picks up all four of his feet when asked. He will be out 24/7 as soon as the weather is suitable. The only thing I think that he would miss out on here is company of his own age. But that is up to his owner. I did suggest she might want to send him to the stud after weaning, but she wants to keep him here.
 
Yes they do. And I did say oddities not serious problems. And I did say I obviously didn't know the seriousness of the foot problem from the post. And it was said foal was ok to whiz round the school. I'm sure wagtail will do a superb job with the facilities she has. But I stand by my statement, foal and new mums do not do best stuck in a stable endlessly, they need to be out yet protected from bad weather. The proof shows in those foals, not now so much as years down the line.
 
Foals are often shy of coming out we always used a towel to nudge the foal out first followed by mum in a bridle if necessary .
I agree with the previous posts be very firm with mum about being protective of the foal with humans it can be a disaster if an accident or illness occurs and you have to do nasty things to the foal.
We always used three people until we had the turning out routine established .
Has the foal got his foal slip on yet we always did this on the the morning after birth it does make things easily they need to learn to let you touch them young it makes life much easier later .
How I miss the breeding side when I read things like this .
 
ribbons said:
Yes they do. And I did say oddities not serious problems. And I did say I obviously didn't know the seriousness of the foot problem from the post. And it was said foal was ok to whiz round the school. I'm sure wagtail will do a superb job with the facilities she has. But I stand by my statement, foal and new mums do not do best stuck in a stable endlessly, they need to be out yet protected from bad weather. The proof shows in those foals, not now so much as years down the line.
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Would you have gone against the vet's advice? Would you turn a three day old foal out in the pouring rain when you knew the Mum would not use a field shelter?

There is not a yard around here that does not have very wet fields at the moment and where it hasn't rained every single day for over two weeks. So unless I was able to magically change the weather and the ground conditions, there is no way I would turn this young foal out in the fields at the moment. Rest assured he will go out in the fields when I think it is safe for him to do so.
 
Also meant to say too much exercise can be really bad if they grow there bones quicker in response to the concussion than they grow there tendons etc, one of upr mares did her foals far to well and spent most of every summer on restricted movement watch for this carefully if you catch it starting its easy to fix by restricting movement.
 
ribbons said:
But I stand by my statement, foal and new mums do not do best stuck in a stable endlessly, they need to be out yet protected from bad weather.
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I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But you need to be aware of the weather - and if it's hammering down with rain, you don't put it out.
 
Goldenstar said:
Foals are often shy of coming out we always used a towel to nudge the foal out first followed by mum in a bridle if necessary .
I agree with the previous posts be very firm with mum about being protective of the foal with humans it can be a disaster if an accident or illness occurs and you have to do nasty things to the foal.
We always used three people until we had the turning out routine established .
Has the foal got his foal slip on yet we always did this on the the morning after birth it does make things easily they need to learn to let you touch them young it makes life much easier later .
How I miss the breeding side when I read things like this .
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Thanks, yes the foal has had his foal slip on and off him a few times now. Thankfully we got them out fine today. Hopefully it will get easier by the day, though I do need to be able to do it alone at some time.
 
Goldenstar said:
Also meant to say too much exercise can be really bad if they grow there bones quicker in response to the concussion than they grow there tendons etc, one of upr mares did her foals far to well and spent most of every summer on restricted movement watch for this carefully if you catch it starting its easy to fix by restricting movement.
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It must be similar to dogs then. You have to restrict large breed dogs exercise for the first year or so or they can get OCD. I have heard about this with horses too.
 
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