Foals being loose jumped

georgiegirl2

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what the hell is wrong with people?!?! Some people are so stupid it baffles me. Saying that.....I saw an ad in last weeks h+h for a 3 year old which is already jumping full courses and xc, it baffles me, it really does.
 

mat

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A stud that makes horses jump loose over a small cross pole would do this to choose what stock they want to sell and what they want to keep.

Fair enough he mentions that when they get used to jumping they dont jump quite like that, but it is a snapshot of what the capabilities of the foal are, and how it might be trained to jump in the future.

It would not be something that they would do on a daily or even a weekly basis. I hardly think that this one picture shows that the foal is being pushed into a performance career too early...

I dont really understand why he has gone off on a tangent about racing in the text??


IMO as long as this IS the case that it was a one off to weed out the potential talent, then it is totally acceptable.

It is very easy to be led along to thinking the worst when reading cleverly worded (one sided) opinions and text...
 

alicep

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thats awful poor things. do people not understand that horse & ponies are not fully developed and ready to jump until prob bout 4/5 and thats still a baby. obviously people things these poor animals are born ready for anything.
 

magic104

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bbmat how many times do you think that foal was asked to jump that fence? The chances are it was not a one off, because you dont always get the photo you want. I know that PS does this with his youngsters to see which have talent. That is fair enough most of the time though they are at least 6mths if not 12mths & it is just to see the technique.
 

zizz

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I agree with bbmat, as long as it is a one off to weed out potential theres no harm in it, in fact i think lunging a two year old will have greater damage than popping a foal over a cross pole.
 
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xspiralx

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Agreed. I am very against people breaking and rushing horses too early, but the likelyhood is that this was jumped once or twice just to get an idea of capability. If thats the case, no harm done.

For those saying "you can't get a perfect picture first time" - those are video stills - very easy to pick the frame you want.
 

Hedgewitch13

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I understand what you are saying but I'm going to have to disagree there. I really don't think it's a good idea to jump foals regardless of the reasons. God knows what it's doing to their joints. I know foals frolic around in the field and that is part of helping to strenghthen their skeleton etc but jumping them really leaves me cold.
 
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xspiralx

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You seriously think popping a foal over a tiny crosspole once or twice is going to do serious future damage?

They'd do that in the field! If it was a regular occurrence I could see your point...
 

Lill

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I think it is a little mean... but then we are leaving our foals to just be that - foals, until they are weaned from their mums they will be babies and do what babies do, we make a fuss of them most days but wont put a headcollar on or lead or pick up feet or anything like that until they are 6 months old.
 
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xspiralx

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Of course. So have you got any evidence that a foal jumping a tiny crosspole once will cause serious future damage?
 

Hedgewitch13

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Have you got any evidence that it doesn't? Like I said it's before it's my opinion. I certainly wouldn't have done that with my mare when she was a foal. For a start she was pretty gangly and lord knows what would have happened if I had sent her over a fence (which I wouldn't have anyway). Any number of accidents could have happened or damage done if she's hit it. I know foals mess around in the field - I said that in my original post, I'm just not comfortable with babies being made to jump so young - regardless of the size of fence or how many times.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree???
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sleepingdragon10

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[ QUOTE ]
Of course. So have you got any evidence that a foal jumping a tiny crosspole once will cause serious future damage?

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't know that it was only once though Spiral.
 
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xspiralx

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I know that, but I am talking in general. bbmatt said it is common practice for larger studs to do this once just to see possible future potential, and hedgewitch is saying that to do it even once is going to cause major problems in future.

I would never agree with anyone doing it with foals on a regular basis, however supposing it is just the one off, I don't understand how anyone can argue that it will be a huge issue in future.
 
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xspiralx

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[ QUOTE ]
Have you got any evidence that it doesn't?

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot see how a foal popping a 6" fence in a sand school is any different from a foal playing over a little log in its field. As you yourself said, most foals will do this in the field anyway - so why is the one instance harmful, but leaping about in the field - often on rough or hard ground, perfectly fine and healthy?

I am not saying you -should- be popping a foal over a fence even if only a once off, but I don't see how you can possibly argue that a one off over a tiny fence will cause more harm than leaping and playing in the fields.
 

GinaB

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Go back a few pages and see the little foal being made to jump over a log that is almost as big as what it. Not that's really mean! (Some parelli related stunt)

Edited due to bad spelling
 

HenryandPeta

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I'm afraid this is fairly typical in America (where the blog is from) - I'm on a USA horse forum and must say some of the metality on there is shocking. Greatly stereotyping here but it is very common in the states that people break their horses young - most of them are ridden hard by the age of two. It depresses me but it's something that will never change.

I don't agree with asking foals to jump like this, yes they may well do it for fun in the field where that is on their own terms, but asking them to jump in the school is IMO not fair to them. I doubt very much whether studs would just ask a foal to jump once and leave it at that - common sense and some horse knowledge dictates that the first leap the foal makes is very likely to be huge even if the fence itself is small. So that will not inform a stud of the foals future prospects - they would be likely to ask for more jumping to establish the foals potential.
 

georgiegirl2

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can someone please tell me how seeing a foal jump a small cross will give you any idea of its future ability? I really dont understand and I really dont see the point?
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Elitemareslol

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One wonders how foals in the wild cope. If a foal in a natural herd cannot run at speed and jump and follow it's mother, it will get left behind and presumably weeded out by natural selection. One doesn't see wild herds full of crippled animals as a result of this.

The foal in this picture is not being forced to jump that high, but has chosen to jump that high and that means that it is within it's own capabilities and is presumably not causing damage.

I personally wouldn't do this, but I have never bought top class competition horses and know nothing of the world of horses worth > £5K.
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TarrSteps

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Henry, you're on COTH, no? That's the land of the crazy people.
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I'm admittedly not American but I've had a fair bit to do with them and I wouldn't say it's common practice to jump foals or ride two year olds hard outside of the racing industry and the Quarter Horse world. I would say they are more inclined to back horses at two, which I think is a bad idea, but aside from the two disciplines I mentioned it's not common practice to do more than ride a few times and turn them away. In fact when people occaisionally do show up on bulletin boards claiming to be riding their two year olds there's usually a colossal outcry. Trust me, there are bad horsemen everywhere but there are good ones too.

I'm sure there are crazy people everywhere doing stupid things with their foals. Personally I think they should be out with their mothers and their buddies on the side of a hill somewhere, end of story. But so many people have foals as pets now and AI has led to a huge increase of "only foals" who live in limited circumstances even I have to accept that's not a realistic expectation anymore.

The only incidence I've seen of jumping foals in any sort of a system is in continental Europe. I've seen a couple of sales tapes and advertising photo sheets. Honestly, together with what I've been reading about life-and soundness expectations in modern sport horses it does not give me the warm fuzzies. I guess they worry about footing and have experienced people doing the work, which helps - I'd hate to see people just giving it a try any old way. *shudder*

I also wonder how much it actually shows, especially to the inexperienced buyers. As with movement, foals have less relative body mass and therefore move and jump with more "spring" than they will as adults. I think experienced people might be able to judge form but that's about it. But you know that's all about business. Nothing new there and thankfully not something the rest of us have to concern ourselves with.

Keep in mind too, with that blog, that woman is on a mission. Personally I think she's a riot and I agree with most of what she says but even I realise she's looking for the worst case scenerios to prove her point.
 

Tia

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I wouldn't say that it is very common for people to ride their horses hard at 2 over here. Yes they make be lightly backed at 2, but Cruiser is right it is really only the QH and racing people who do this - most English riders are looking more to 3 or 4 to back their horses. I am a QH person and as a producer and seller of QH's, yes I lightly back my horses at 2, ready to sell at 3 or 4 years old.

I do agree, however, that there is never a reason for foals this young to be jumping - yes I hear what you are saying bbmat, but I still find it not right......of course you will find what I do with 2 year olds not right
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I have to say that this lady's blog has to be one of the best blogs out there! She is a terrific writer and I honestly think that if she had this published she'd make a small fortune!
 

shadowboy

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Doing it once off is okay, but the likely hood if the picture is whats selling the foal, then people coming to view the animal will also want to see it jumped, etc etc, in knowing hands it can be quite acceptable but if it becomes habit, of if someone without the knowledge sees images like this and thinks its acceptable, that when problems arrise.
 

Fahrenheit

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[ QUOTE ]
can someone please tell me how seeing a foal jump a small cross will give you any idea of its future ability? I really dont understand and I really dont see the point?
confused.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

they are looking for the foals that show a natural 'flair' for jumping, they are looking at its technique if it jumps clean, tucks well and is good behind, its very hard to describe in words but its an aid to selecting which foals to keep.

If its done properly and only the once or twice, the foal isn't abused into doing it, the surface is good (ie a manege) and the fence is very small, I don't see the harm. My mares and foals came hairing down the field the other day and we have shallow drainage channels in the field and because we are still drying out from the floods they have water in the bottom and quite a few of the foals jumped the channels, some very impressively I must say, I don't see the difference, they were clearing an obstacle in their way.

Nearly every show jumping stud ive been on in this country has loose jumped its foals, infact I have a stud card infront of me from one of the big studs with a pic of a foal loose jumping, was trying to find it on the net to do a link but can't find it and I can't copy the card because of copyright.
 

christine48

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I think you'd be less likely to do damage if it was a one off to assess jumping potential as at that age they haven't got a huge body mass. It's common practice at big studs to do this especially on the continant. I wouldn't do it as I'd be worried about the foal hitting a heavy pole and damaging itself. I believe you potentially do more damage when people jump horses at 2 or 3 yr old.
 

Navalgem

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[ QUOTE ]
You seriously think popping a foal over a tiny crosspole once or twice is going to do serious future damage?

They'd do that in the field! If it was a regular occurrence I could see your point...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - I have heard of a foal jumping a 3ft3 fence and being seperated from her's mother - eventually she jumped back. Think she was about 3 months old, that couldn't be prevented. Plus I saw an ad in Horse and Hound for a well-known stud who showed pics of 2007 foals plaited and loose jumping over a crosspole. Surely they wouldn't risk damaging them, how would they make their money?
 
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