Follow on from prev loading thread; Loading, To Big a Price for Us?

Elsbells

Elsbells

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Re my prev thread
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=545572

Well there has been a price. She falls to pieces and shakes in the trailer, she sweats and bends at the knees and as soon as I say OK, she leaps off! She's also pulled 3 shoes and banged her head in the process and all of this is on a loose rope.

I have left her for a couple of days out in the field with her firiends to recover but she still won't trust me, as soon as I bring her in from the field she starts sweating up and won't stay still or even stay in the stable/yard. She won't look at me now, let alone in the eyes and I feel I have ruined her just for the sake of a few fun rides.

I tried a little bit of ground work with her today and she didn't want to know. She is an over sensative mare and we have come a long way together since she first arrived. I have had to focus on her completely, it's been very hard work and although often I felt like just throwing in the towel as it seemed never ending, we got to a time when she would do anything I ask of her even free jumping poles with me running, jumping and sending her on alongside of her in the menage, just for the fun of it. She made me so proud.

And today I feel like crying.

I don't know what to ask you guys on here? Should I be asking for a swift kick? I guess I just want to hear from anyone this has happened to and how they dealt with it? Should I give up, sell the trailer and try to rebuild what I have lost with Elz instead or even, is this possible now? I'm wishing that I never started it all right now.:(:(
 
She's obviously frightened by the experienced; now you have to work on helping her to calm down. Try just feeding her on the trailer, even if you can get her to take a handful before letting her off it'll break her concentration enough to let her think rather than panic. Do it at least three times in a row, and do it every day.
 
joeanne said:
Is she the same in a horsebox?
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Not so much joeanne, although she will dance about and make a fuss. Basically, she hates travelling. A friend moved her once in a IW trailer and I'm sure she that sat the whole journey on the bum bar, or on the floor!

I have a buyer for the trailer and could sell it tomorrow for a profit and maybe buy a lorry next year? I'm 52 this year and don't want to hang about I guess.
 
With our mare she wasn't as scared as your girl sounds. We got her a single breast bar for the trailer so she had plenty of room, the trailer was the biggest in terms of headroom that i could get and very light and airy. My daughter found the most successful method was really just to wait her out, she had a rope halter with a long line and a bucket of lovely food and a lot of patience, we'd just literally park ourselves in the trailer and eat a packet of polos (which very much kept the mare's focus on us haha) and encourage her to come on board and then shut the back ramp when she was distracted by eating, but this made it difficult to plan things and tbh I never really had the nerve or patience for it for it myself, I would often go and do other prep stuff to keep busy and out of the way. However, sometimes she could surprise you,when she last loaded to go to her new home, after having spent about 9 months turned away, she got on so quickly I was taken short with my prep and had to deliver her stuff separately!

Hope you can work it out, loading issues are very stressful and so many different approaches all of which have their disadvantages. Good luck.
 
Some horses just do not like trailers. I had a pony who could not stand up at all in one although, bless him he always loaded. We practised with him a few times but it was very scary and we eventually got a 2 horse box (real old thing it was and still forward facing) He travelled fine in that and after that when we got a larger 7.5T wagon herringbone style. I would try her in a lorry - if possible, try a 3.5T type one and something larger and see how she does. Make sure whatever you try has decent partitions so she can't attempt to jump over (some lorries I see have such low partitions, i wouyld never travel a horse in there).

As said, load her, feed her and let her calm down and then unload her. Try this a few times but maybe not daily - don't allow her to anticipate stuff. I have a VERY sensitive pony who anticipates things and can get himself very worked up. Funnily he doesn't like travelling in a trailer either - well, he'll go in but you can't get him out the front as he panics so I used to have to reverse him. He travels in a 7.5T wagon fine - he loads himself!!!
 
Ok I know most will think I'm barking and I honestly don't know how it works.....but try this lady, she does distance work

http://www.equinebodytalk.co.uk/index.html

Mad maybe but she has got my friend's horse whose loading issues similar to your mare came from emotional trauma/bad journey when previously he was a brilliant loader and traveller. He was taking over 2 hours to load! Was fearful and if any pressure put on turned into 17hhs of lethal weapon.

Now he loads calmly, stands and travels well. The anxiety has disappeared leaving a horse that can be worked with.

Just a out there suggestion if you are desperate.
 
Your horse has developed a fear reaction to the trailer. It's the same as a human phobia (and how you describe her responding is the same way a phobic human reacts too (I'm a psychologist ;))). You can deal with it in the same way you can deal with a human phobia - you replace the feelings of fear and anxiety when faced with the trailer with pleasant associations, and you do it very gradually over a period of time. The process is called systematic desensitisation and counter conditioning, and is rather complex to describe on a short forum post, but actually quite simple, if time consuming, to do (and is enjoyable and not stressful for both you and horse).

You need a behaviourist to work out a plan for you to follow and to advise how to avoid pitfalls. A horse trainer or instructor won't work now - that's fine if you have a reluctant loader, but not when the horse actually reacts fearfully on even seeing the trailer - at this point you need a specialist.

If you google "equine behaviourist" (behaviourist with a "u" gets you UK professionals rather than US where it's spelled without the u), the first page lists behaviourists in various areas... if there isn't one near you, PM me, as I know a fair network of them. Behaviourists tend to work under veterinary referral (like a physio), and that's one way to know you are dealing with a behaviourist and not a trainer :)
 
I dealt with one some years ago that would be fine to load and travel but had to be unloaded off backwards, for some reason taking her off the front completely set her back and unsettled her. It might be worth trying that before you give up completely
 
the watcher said:
I dealt with one some years ago that would be fine to load and travel but had to be unloaded off backwards, for some reason taking her off the front completely set her back and unsettled her. It might be worth trying that before you give up completely
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Mine did this because he had an issue with narrow spaces so negotiating the front exit was too much for him. The times he ever did do it it was at 100 mph - not pleasant!! After that he would just be a quivering wreck and we decided reversing him was the best way. The OP's horse though sounds like another that cannot stand/balance in a trailer though (quite common) and it sounds like this is what is causing the fear I think. I would aways try the wagon route as i find most horses, even those who are nightmares in trailers travel better in larger wagons travelling herringbone style.
 
some horses just cant cope with travelling forward,we had a mare that just couldnt get her balance in a trailer but herringbone or backwards she was absolutley fine,maybe its just the trailer and she cant get her balance:(
 
Elsbells said:
Re my prev thread
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=545572

Well there has been a price. She falls to pieces and shakes in the trailer, she sweats and bends at the knees and as soon as I say OK, she leaps off! She's also pulled 3 shoes and banged her head in the process and all of this is on a loose rope.

I have left her for a couple of days out in the field with her firiends to recover but she still won't trust me, as soon as I bring her in from the field she starts sweating up and won't stay still or even stay in the stable/yard. She won't look at me now, let alone in the eyes and I feel I have ruined her just for the sake of a few fun rides.

I tried a little bit of ground work with her today and she didn't want to know. She is an over sensative mare and we have come a long way together since she first arrived. I have had to focus on her completely, it's been very hard work and although often I felt like just throwing in the towel as it seemed never ending, we got to a time when she would do anything I ask of her even free jumping poles with me running, jumping and sending her on alongside of her in the menage, just for the fun of it. She made me so proud.

And today I feel like crying.

I don't know what to ask you guys on here? Should I be asking for a swift kick? I guess I just want to hear from anyone this has happened to and how they dealt with it? Should I give up, sell the trailer and try to rebuild what I have lost with Elz instead or even, is this possible now? I'm wishing that I never started it all right now.:(:(
Click to expand...

I'm probably not that far from you so if you want a hand in anyway let me know (although my planter won't load either). Have you thought about trying sue palmer she lives in stafford and is natural horsemanship person.
 
You need to replace 'argh, scary!' with 'mmmm, nice.' That will mean you need to
1) find out what frightens her so much and do your best to alleviate it
2) build positive experiences and associations with the trailer.

In the past I've had horses with 'issues' loading and travelling, and have helped with those belonging to friends. One struggled with unloading as he wasn't quite balanced enough, so we put extra grippy matting down on the 'off' ramp. One needed to go for lots of VERY slow and VERY careful journeys to build confidence. One needed to be travelled solo as their companion stressed them out, and yet another needed a companion to reassure them.

One that was mine and had been thrown around in the past by a poor driver, needed feeding IN the trailer every single day for three weeks before we could even think about taking her anywhere. We started feeding her on the ramp, then half way up, then in the trailer with no partition, with partition, with ramps up etc until you could load her as normal, put the ramp up and she'd munch happily, then unload. Only then could we go for a 2 min trip around the block (still with dinner!) and progress from there. Took a while, but it worked!

Your horse is terrified. That does, indeed, need fixing. No reason why it can't though, unless she's truly claustrophobic or unable to keep her balance when travelling.
 
I feel for you.
My horse was very similar, non stressy husband walked away saying that horse is gonna kill you, this was after he tried to come through the jockey door that Id left slightly open so I could escape. He bashed my ribs freaking out, whacked his head numerous times, so in the end I gave in and bought a wagon. My horse was a dream to travel in my friends wagon but I could never afford one. His confidence is dented but he will load now (after over an hour the first time) and travel. He is scared but Im hoping the more we do it, his confidence will return. He sweats, never used to before the trailer and will not eat, used to stand munching happily before the trailer.
If you can try a wagon then I would. My horse was petrified and scrabbled all over even without a partition. I just think he coudnt cope with such an enclosed space and travelling forwards.
Good luck, I hope it works out for you. Hugs x
 
Thanks everyone of you for your helpful replies and good ideas, there's a lot here for me to consider.

I felt emotionally drained when I posted this thread this afternoon and quite simply at a loss, however, after a sleep this aftwenoon and shortly before we went out with friends(didn't want to go)we nipped up to see my girl armed with treats, I needed to see her and see if she would come to me.
Phew!! Thankfully, she did and appeared a lot happier, so it must be her anticipation that is causing her to flip out in the yard and not her distrust in me after all. I'm so relieved.

I'd really like to ride her, but until Wednesday when my farrier comes off holiday, she is missing shoes and her feet are dreadful, so I can't.

I am sure though, that she has been frightened off of trailers, she hates to even to get close to one out on a hack. Maybe I'll sell mine, forget about this year and buy a small lorry next year instead?
 
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I just accepted mine is terrified of traveling. He was heading in the direction yours has gone with his fear reaction. I decided that just because he's well mannered and will (reluctantly) load, its unfair to take advantage of his nice nature. I stopped travelling him, deciding fun rides weren't worth traumatizing him. He was getting worse with each journey not better, despite good drivers, and would be so distressed at the venue surrounded by boxes and trailers.

It took 3yrs before he stopped pooing himself and planting, through fear, at the sight of any horsebox or trailer that wasn't obviously parked up in a parking space. He even panicked if one drove past him out hacking and he's not scared of noises busses etc it was that he didn't want to be anywhere near a horsebox.

He gradually got to the point, after many years, where he would approach a box or trailer on the yard, to pass it. Now he'll walk right up close, sniff the ramp and walk past with nothing more than a worried look. This is because he knows now that there's no chance he has to go on it. It took about 7 or 8 years to get to this stage, though I wasn't putting any effort in to practicing or desensitising, it was just as and when situations arose.
 
horsemad32 said:
You need to replace 'argh, scary!' with 'mmmm, nice.' That will mean you need to
1) find out what frightens her so much and do your best to alleviate it
2) build positive experiences and associations with the trailer.

In the past I've had horses with 'issues' loading and travelling, and have helped with those belonging to friends. One struggled with unloading as he wasn't quite balanced enough, so we put extra grippy matting down on the 'off' ramp. One needed to go for lots of VERY slow and VERY careful journeys to build confidence. One needed to be travelled solo as their companion stressed them out, and yet another needed a companion to reassure them.

One that was mine and had been thrown around in the past by a poor driver, needed feeding IN the trailer every single day for three weeks before we could even think about taking her anywhere. We started feeding her on the ramp, then half way up, then in the trailer with no partition, with partition, with ramps up etc until you could load her as normal, put the ramp up and she'd munch happily, then unload. Only then could we go for a 2 min trip around the block (still with dinner!) and progress from there. Took a while, but it worked!

Your horse is terrified. That does, indeed, need fixing. No reason why it can't though, unless she's truly claustrophobic or unable to keep her balance when travelling.
Click to expand...

Some good psychology there. The fear needs to be gradually eroded over a period which might take weeks.

I was faced with a similar problem with two bought in mares. One would not go within 25 yards of a trailer and the other would rear, either going over onto her side or right over backwards if any force was tried. Both were eventually taught to self-load on command.

The first stage was feeding nearer and nearer a stationary trailer, until finally they will enter and pull at a hay net. Obviously, a horse must be hungry to do this and a routine established so this is meal time, preferably several times a day. Leaving the trailer in a bare field helps, also having both ramps down.

Next, I positioned the trailer in a gateway with a bare field on one side and a field strip grazed on the other. Fortunately, I have a couple of good loaders who have no fear of trailers. The horses were encouraged to go up the rear ramp and down the front to get to fresh grass every morning. In the evening, they were put back into the bare paddock. At first, the bad loaders galloped through! But, by the end of the week, they'd linger to pull at a hay net in the trailer.

The next stage involved parking the trailer next to the round pen. The "bad loader" was worked in the round pen but rested when it got near the trailer. Gradually, it was asked to do a bit more every day until it was self loading on command. Basically, the message you are putting across is that being outside the trailer means work, inside is rest and food. The horse is in charge and being given a choice. If it goes in but immediately wants to come out (with a mouthful of hay), that's fine too -- but the price is more work. No such thing as a free lunch. Simples!

It does work, but you have to be prepared to accept very small improvements over time and have lots of patience. Using treats etc. may work, but only when the horse is hungry -- and it might not be the next time you want to get it loaded in a hurry.

For bad travellers I'd suggest short journeys culminating in something the horse likes. For example, travel the horse a few hundred yards to a new field of fresh grass, allow to graze for an hour or thirty minutes, load up (if you can!) or lead back to the regular field. Repeat regularly, preferably changing locations and gradually increasing the time travelling. No sticks, no shouting, no forcing head collars, and no buckets of feed.
 
I had a real problem loader/traveller - I used two different NH instructors over a about 12 months ( my finances and time constraints the reason for the long period), and my horse went from something difficult to load and liable to panic and injure himself (threw himself down in the float in a panic twice), to a pretty reliable and decent traveller. I cannot reccomend the PNH instructors enough - however, it was not an overnight fix, it took time. i even used to load him up on the float and leave the ramp bar off/ doors open/him untyed, and go have a cup of tea and he would be waiting for me to come back and ask him off - before we even attempted to travel anywhere. That took months to get him to that point, and then more time to be able to close the door, and more time to travel a few metres. I really made sure he was ok with each step in the process, but the end result is a horse that trusts me not to ask him to do something he cannot do.
 
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