Following on from hacking in hi vis in the dark...

benson21

benson21

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If you were hacking out in the dark in hi vis, as many on the said post have said they do, and, God forbid, a car hit you, who would be at fault?
 
Well, considering cyclists seem to enjoy riding on dark A roads at night with no lights or hi viz and if a driver hits them the driver is assumed at fault I would imagine the same goes for a horse and rider...
 
I wonder if you might be at fault? Nobody should be using the road after dark unless they have lights surely? High Viz doesn't count as lights if you're a cyclist, so it probably wouldn't if you are a horse rider.
 
Nothing in either law or the higway code relates to a rider wearing Hi Viz. (Obviously, and rightly, the BHS Road Rider test does!)

The most that could perhaps be said is that if you sued in civil court for injury - rather than prosecution in a criminal court - then it could be argued that you took a risk not wearing hi Viz and as such compensation could be reduced.

But morally.... if gives drivers as much as an additional 3 seconds to see you. Essential. I would rather come home whole than fight something out in a court!
 
Shay said:
Nothing in either law or the higway code relates to a rider wearing Hi Viz. (Obviously, and rightly, the BHS Road Rider test does!)

The most that could perhaps be said is that if you sued in civil court for injury - rather than prosecution in a criminal court - then it could be argued that you took a risk not wearing hi Viz and as such compensation could be reduced.

But morally.... if gives drivers as much as an additional 3 seconds to see you. Essential. I would rather come home whole than fight something out in a court!
Click to expand...

Yep, in daylight, but we're talking about in the dark. Surely it would be pretty irresponsible to hack in the dark with just high viz? Could make an interesting court case.
 
I think it would be just plain stupid to hack in the dark, with ot without hi viz.

I have one of those tabards with LED flashing lights, same as cyclists and motorcyclists wear. I never go out without it even in daylight. You never know during the winter months when you're going to be on a patch of road with very little natural light showing through. Lots of drivers have stopped and said how visible it made me.
 
I'd guess it could be seen the same as if someone has an accident involving a car with no lights. But I suppose it would depend on circumstances. I'm not saying I'd do it, but if for instance I was walking very slowly under a streetlight on the well lit local housing estate, where you are mad to drive over 15mph anyway, it could be argued on my grey I'm as visible as say a parked car, or skip or similar. Whereas trotting a black horse down a dark, high hedged national speed country road in the pitch black I don't see how any motorist would see you in time.
 
I think if you hit someone, then you are liable. Regardless of if someone has lights on, hi-viz etc. What about if you hit a pedestrian walking on the road where there is no pavement? Yes it would help if they had rear and forward facing lights and were wearing hi-viz but that's not very likely is it.

However, I think in the case if you tried to claim compensation for someone hitting you and you didn't take precautions to make yourself seen, things may not go in your favour.

I have to go down a small section of road of an evening to use a school (we just have a field). I'm out of the house from 7am to 6:30pm and so the only option for me autumn - spring is to school after work. Luckily there is a pavement so I lead the horse on the verge and I walk on the pavement then we have to cross onto a bridleway. Even though we're on the pavement I still wear tabard, hat band and head torch. Horse has leg bands, hi-vis exercise sheet and a little red flashy light on her tail.
 
It is illegal to have a horse on the road after sunset without proper lights showing white in front and red to the rear. If caught by the police or involved in an accident you could be prosecuted.

It would be very likely that any claim resulting from an accident would be reduced to reflect contributory negligence too. This could be a reduction in the claim by as little as 10% or as much as 100% if it is felt that using lights could have prevented the accident from occuring. There is significant caselaw regarding unlit vehicles on the highway and a horse would be treated very similarly.
 
Well noone should be out in the dark without the correct lighting and I don't think anyone on that thread who said that they do hack out in the dark said they didn't use lights and relied just on hivis :eek:.

I'm legal.. white to the front, red to the rear, it is the one thing that my flashing tabard annoys me about as it is red allround (although they are great in low visibility generally. I should think I am more visible on my horse than I am when I go out on my bicycle and really don't see the difference tbh.

Plenty of pedestrians on roads in the dark without lights but you would still be liable. I can remember a police programme where a young lady thought she had hit an animal.. turned out it was a cyclist (she phoned the police to report) and they did visit her etc but iirc she wasn't prosecuted as he was on a fast a road in the dark with no lights or reflectors on his bike.
 
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I ride the lanes in the dark with 4 x leg bands, exercise sheet, bridle kit, tail light, me full hi viz jacket, trousers, hat plus head torch front and back and a waist coat which flashes really bright and lights on my stirrups. Iv had less trouble with traffic than during the day and actually perfer it as nobody will come close as they can't work out what I am. Iv actually had a car stop and tell me how effective it was. As to who's fault it would be if I had a accident well, they would be blind to miss me even miles away.
 
I do often think that I am more visible in the dark than I am on a sunny winters afternoon with no sun.

and I do always state that it is completely dependent on your location, some lend themselves to it more than others. I tend to go about 1/4 mile down the road to offroad hacking then come back in the daylight. Very rare that I even meet a car but I like to dress in case
 
There is a livery yard on a lane near here, which is a cut through to an industrial estate, so morning and evening the lane is quite busy, although quiet at other times as there is a weight restriction.

The local policeman called in to see the Livery Manager and said that he didn't want anyone riding on the lane at dusk/when visibility was bad and the traffic was busy - he said he would prosecute anyone he found, and since he was up and down the lane all the time as he lived at the end the chances of being caught were quite high. The yard has an arena so I think he thought that anyone who wanted to ride at those times could ride in the arena. It was from a road safety point of view, he had been a rider and he didn't want to see an accident.
 
You beat me to it ester... what would you prosecute on.Why not prosecute the drivers presumably using it as a "rat run"!
 
Ester it does depend on your roads etc I feel. I would never go on main roads even dressed as I do nor would I go on busy country lanes plus u have to be carefull and use your common sence and watch for cars, and clear all corners etc if u spot headlights.
Down to common sence really.
 
The Highway Code Rule 51 states: ‘At night. It is safer not to ride on the road at night or in poor visibility, but if you do, make sure you wear reflective clothing and your horse has reflective bands above the fetlock joints. A light which shows white to the front and red to the rear should be fitted, with a band, to the riders right arm and/or leg/riding boot. If you are leading a horse at night, carry a light in your right hand, showing white to the front and red to the rear, and wear reflective clothing on both you and your horse. It is strongly recommended that a fluorescent/reflective tail guard is also worn.’

The BHS also strongly recommend avoiding riding on the road at night or in poor visibility, but of course we appreciate that not everyone can do this. However, there are many ways in which you can make yourself more visible.

Fluorescent clothing alone does not offer the highest visibility in these conditions, although it is much better than wearing dark clothing and riding a dark horse. However it is the reflective part of a garment (not the fluorescent aspect) which assists drivers in seeing you as it picks up the light from the vehicle and reflects back to the driver, highlighting your presence.
 
Thanks BHS for your post, as I said earlier I didn't see anyone say they relied on fluoresecence alone for riding in these conditions, and I do think it is very much a case of individual risk assessments and situations. There are roads I would use in the daylight near me that I would certainly not use in the dark.. and don't use in poor light and on sunny winter days either.

For the record when riding in the dark/at first light I wear:

fluorescent hat cover with a reflective strip
fluorescent and reflective tabard or coat
fluorescent and reflective gloves
reflective LED tabard
a reflective +LED band on each leg.
A headlamp
and rear bicycle clip on light.

Horse wears:

fluorescent reflective noseband
fluorsecent reflective breastplate
reflective bands on all 4 legs (they started off fluorescent but got a bit brown with mud over time!)
a fluorescent exercise sheet which by virtue of the way it fits him shows reflective strips behnd.
 
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