Following on from "loaning but owner not parting with passport"

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Coldfeet!

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I didnt want to hijack that thread by asking this question but one of my horses is old enought to have a passport, one is young enough to have a passport and a microchip (ive thought about having the older one chipped at next vacc).

My question is this

If an equine passport does not prove ownership how can we ever prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that we own our horse in situations that lead to a dispute?
 
Two of my horses are passported with the AHS and there is a separate form to fill in with the change of ownership details that both the owner/seller and new owner/buyer must fill in an send back to the AHS. It's very similar to the form you fill in when you buy a car.

The AHS like to be notified when you loan a horse that it is on loan and not for sale, so they won't change the ownership.

MHOL have good advice on their website for safely loaning horses.
 
Faracat said:
Two of my horses are passported with the AHS and there is a separate form to fill in with the change of ownership details that both the owner/seller and new owner/buyer must fill in an send back to the AHS. It's very similar to the form you fill in when you buy a car.

The AHS like to be notified when you loan a horse that it is on loan and not for sale, so they won't change the ownership.

MHOL have good advice on their website for safely loaning horses.
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All passports are in my name but I have know horses to go on loan with passport in the owners name and the police to tell the owner it is a civil matter. I supposed you would have to report the horse stolen in that case

edited to say I was thinking of loaning my daughters pony when she is outgrown but I dont think I will bother there doesnt seem to be any real protection in favor of horse owners. It would be better if breed or registering authorities had good systems to back up loan agreements etc. Scary minefield.
 
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http://missinghorsesonloan.webs.com/loanadvice.htm

^ The MHOL link.

Having read a few of the awful horses stolen while on loan sagas, the key seems to be getting a crime reference number from the Police. Don't be fobbed off with 'it's a civil matter' and push for the CRN. If you go on arabianlines there are a couple of threads about a horse called Brujo which are scary reading (an equine dentist helped the loaner hide the horse from the owner etc...).

ETA - http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=53989&SearchTerms=brujo

http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=54352&SearchTerms=brujo
 
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Its a difficult one,

My friends horse was out on loan, loanee moved the horse yards without consulting the owner and even went as far as to say she had brought the horse to other people on the yard and refused to give her back, so effectively the horse was stolen.

Police were involved and although not proof of ownership, cos the owners name was on the passport and she still had it, the police accepted the horse was hers and she got her back.

she was lucky x
 
Microchipping, freeze mark, vets records, insurance, email records, and a signed bhs loan agreement would help show ownership.
I agree it's ridiculous there's no real way of proving ownership unequivocally.
 
BoolavogueDC said:
Microchipping, freeze mark, vets records, insurance, email records, and a signed bhs loan agreement would help show ownership.
I agree it's ridiculous there's no real way of proving ownership unequivocally.
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I think I may have to think on the freezebrands too, I think the more bases you cover the better so safeguard your furry family members, doesnt bare thinking about with all the horror stories floating about!
 
Some schemes include ownership papers, e.g. in Germany and France. So my German passported horse came with change of ownership papers and when all my horses were registered in France I was registered as the owner and have to fill in a form if I sell them. I am not one for extra paperwork, but in this case it's not a bad idea.

When you buy a horse in the UK you can ask for a receipt and there is usually a money trail via your bank that will show you paid for the horse, but it's not conclusive.
 
horserider said:
Keeping a paper trail of emails, loan agreement, photo's, passport, microchip and insurance etc are all things that can help to verify ownership.

Also useful is the DNA storage company that store your horses DNA from a mouth swab. Its a one off payment of £25. http://www.petgen.co.uk/shop.php#!/~/category/id=6372330&offset=0&sort=normal
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Im not sure DNA conclusively prove ownership? Im sure it just serves to prove the horse is who you say it is not who owns it? Im sure anyone could take a mouth swab and get that done while it was on loan or out of the owners sight then claim ownership? Frustrating, I think mine will be staying put on loan at home if needs be or sold if circumstances call for it.

I think yes the only thing is to cover all avenues, emailes, contracts, keeping your initial advert, etc etc, amazing you have to jump through hoops to prove you own your own horse.
 
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So I bred a filly 2 years ago, bar the passport that shows me as current owner and breeder, and on the microchip database, how could I prove ownership?
 
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