Following on from nightmare start to BE season...

[Austen123]

currently arranging for a pro dressage rider to come and have a sit on him and test his gears to make sure he is accurately priced along with exploring dressage sales livery as i think they would be able to show him off a lot better than me!

 

[ycbm]

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/attachments/1c8c6a50-658d-40f2-b554-c03b5478cf27-jpeg.32289/



😳

 

[ihatework]

I think you really need to decide what his market is going to be.

His advert at the moment sounds like a saintly event schoolmaster, which let’s face it is not what he is.

If you are thinking he is best suited to the dressage market then I would remove that advert pronto.

Get him assessed and readvertise as a dressage horse in dressage pages.

 

[Austen123]

i am working on it! from the dressage page i have received interest so i not your comments removing it from the Eventing-UK one.
- photos will be taken once weather clears up
- pro being arranged to come and sit on him to put him through his DR paces
- DR sales livery being explored.

 

[concorde]

I hope you are going to rethink that advert
It is really not very honest. If you think he would make a great dressage horse then advertise him as such.
Then horse and new owner could both be happy

 

[Fanatical]

I would put money on this horse being in pain somewhere. Horses generally don't misbehave on a regular basis without an underlying cause - yes, they can learn some 'naughty' habits through pain which remain after they have been dealt with, but as a general rule, most horses are trying to tell you something.

Unfortunately xraying his back would not rule back pain (or pain elsewhere) out. I have recently been through a similar situation and had back xrays which were all clear. Further down the line we had a whole body bone scan and horse was diagnosed with arthritis in his back - this would never have shown up on your typical xray machine as it is too deep down to be picked up.

Please listen to your horse and do the best by him (I have every sympathy - it isn't easy).

 

[TheMule]

I think you're going to find that being very open about your horse on a widely read Internet forum including more than enough details to easily trace him and you may well come back to bite you here!

 

[Austen123]

I think you're going to find that being very open about your horse on a widely read Internet forum including more than enough details to easily trace him and you may well come back to bite you here!

i didnt come on this forum to be witch hunted.. which is what i feel is happening

i have removed the ad from the eventing UK group. kept it on the dressage group.
had xrays done
spoken in depth with my instructors
techniques/tactics at BE events
taken him back to pure SJ and DR where he behaved impeccably.
i think if anyone looked on here they would see i tried to cross everything off my list

 

[ihatework]

i didnt come on this forum to be witch hunted.. which is what i feel is happening

i have removed the ad from the eventing UK group. kept it on the dressage group.
had xrays done
spoken in depth with my instructors
techniques/tactics at BE events
taken him back to pure SJ and DR where he behaved impeccably.
i think if anyone looked on here they would see i tried to cross everything off my list

No one is witch hunting you.
People have been completely supportive of your predicament and concerned for your safety.

It’s a shitty situation to be in, but ultimately you are now responsible for this horses future.

People on the internet can only respond asked on what you say. We don’t know the whole situation.

It it quite possible this horse has an issue that hasn’t been found. It’s also possible that he is just a sharp over excited twat that mentally isn’t suited to Eventing unless under the thumb of a pro. The only concern I have is you say he was ok last year but not this year - that to me would point to something physical.

To achieve the price you want he will need to go out and get a handful of Ele/Med tests under his belt. I think once you put him under a little pressure to do those tests you will find out one way or another if it’s physical.

Good luck, he is a smart horse. Hopefully just a change of direction is all he needs.

 

[southerncomfort]

i didnt come on this forum to be witch hunted.. which is what i feel is happening

i have removed the ad from the eventing UK group. kept it on the dressage group.
had xrays done
spoken in depth with my instructors
techniques/tactics at BE events
taken him back to pure SJ and DR where he behaved impeccably.
i think if anyone looked on here they would see i tried to cross everything off my list

I'm really sorry you feel like this but you need to know that if you aren't open about his issues it will come back to bite you further down the line.

Personally I think you need to state that he is for a confident rider only and has been known to buck. There are some people who won't be put off by that although they might question the price.

I'm afraid I agree with other posters regarding a full vet work up too. If he has previously been fine then something is very wrong somewhere and you may find he won't pass a vetting.

This isn't anyone getting at you, but trying to help you avoid an unholy mess in the future. You are obviously at your wits end and I don't blame you one bit, but you have to do right by the horse and any future buyer.

 

[chaps89]

The original ad read to me as a very good exercise for a potential buyer in reading between the lines and looking at what has been omitted!

If I read that ad looking for a nice eventer type, which is what he sounded, then enquired to be told his behaviour at events I'd feel quite frustrated - and as a seller I suspect you'd get quite fed up too.

I think removing the ad or just updating it with the reason for sale (too sharp at xc/eventing but fine pure dressage/sj) is the right thing to do.

It does sound like you have a plan, and trying him out under a pro at pure dressage sounds like a good idea - plus if he boils over then it might justify further investigation - and if not it probably indicates all is well.

 

[Frumpoon]

£12 grand for a horse that does handstands is a hell of a lot!!!!!
OP you look like an incredibly good rider, I'd question if you can't manage him, what kind of person would...?

 

[mrmac]

Looks like I opened a can of worms.
Something must be causing this horse to explode the way he does, be it behaviour or physically. I hope you get to the bottom of whatever it is OP. At least that way a safe future is guaranteed for him and his next owner. Good luck x

 

[cundlegreen]

Looks like I opened a can of worms.
Something must be causing this horse to explode the way he does, be it behaviour or physically. I hope you get to the bottom of whatever it is OP. At least that way a safe future is guaranteed for him and his next owner. Good luck x

OP, having gone through this post, and seen your confo photo of your horse, the first thing that I would be looking at is his front feet. It may sound daft, but looking at his lack of muscle tone, although lovely and shiny, he looks to have a pain/discomfort issue. I knew a 4 yr old who appeared wrong behind, and then started bucking in a schooling lesson.He turned out to have major degeneration of both navicular bones in front and was PTS. Not at all what you would expect to find in a 4 yr old. You may have to think outside the box on this one... I certainly would not be advertising him for that amount without ensuring you'd covered all physical issues. The last thing you want is somebody else being injured by him.

 

[SusieT]

If i bought this horse and he did handstands and injured me I'd be sueing you for everything you had. You need to include in your adverts that is is sharp- 'makes his rider feel safe' -not when he is known to be so difficult to get eliminated getting to the jumping..

 

[Red-1]

I just found his advert on an eventing page this morning, and reading it I don't think it is truthful. The line

"but is also extremely confidence giving and easy when jumping, making the rider feel safe."

is IMO deliberately misleading.

I would be rather cross if I tried him, he behaved at home, then took his somewhere and he injured me. That line in particular goes beyond simply leaving the bad bits out.



ETA- Although the line "always catching eyes when competing. " did make me laugh. I bet he does!!!!


ETA (again) - Having looked at his record I do think you may get a fair price for him. If I were looking to buy, his advert would grab the attention, then I looked at his record, and I would query why he has a different rider each season, but he has a pretty consistent record from 2016 util you bought him, it just looks like the previous rider tried him at Novice and he did not please her at that level.

If you sold him that you are simply not the rider for him, which is further evidenced by the fact that when Dan rode him he finished on a 28 (wow), and had Dan ride him at a few more events to cement that, then I d think he would sell and you could be honest that he has scared you by his antics. As a prospective owner I would need to see photo evidence that he was out and about in 2018, to satisfy myself that he was not off sick. If he then got a good few successful runs at 100 with Dan then I do think he would fetch the sum you are asking, with full disclosure.

 

[G&T]

Agree with the above - if you are going to continue advertising him for eventing then you’d be better off getting his recent record looking really impressive.
None of my business perhaps, but you do also need to be very very careful that you’re being 100% honest about him to prospective buyers, as accidents happen so easily (even with straightforward horses) and if something does go wrong for a new owner and you have been anything but dead straight about him, you could easily get into hot water. Out of interest I looked at a couple of your previous posts (sorry, day off work) and you’ve also talked about him starting to buck out hacking, broncing with ‘all four feet off the ground’. People commenting on the ad that I looked at on Facebook had asked you about him being safe to hack and you just replied ‘yes! 😊’
For me a horse needs to be competing at a higher level than grassroots eventing to put up with it trying to rodeo with me when its feet touch grass. Maybe your angle needs to be that he is an experienced ride with potential to climb the levels?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Right, so this horse doesn't just reserve his bucks for the eventing arena and behave in a saintly way elsewhere, he has form out hacking too, as shared previously by the OP.

Hi All.

this is the first winter with my horse. when we hack out there is a grass track you take to avoid a stretch of road and you join the road further up. you can take this same track home. on the other side of the hedge is the road and Podge gets a bit wound up when the cars come past at speed (not as much on the way out).
on the way home he gets a bit joggy so to stop it getting out of hand i stand him give him a pat and walk on. every time he starts to jog . i repeat.
during the week when i was riding back cars came past and he spooked and did a massive buck. i got him back. patted and we did the walk/jog/stand . Today, i did the same thing and it worked. unfortunately in the distance a gun shot/bird scarer went off and he properly launched into a buck and did a bit of a rodeo (i felt all 4 feet off the ground at once. eek!). again, i got him back gave him a pat and we did the walk/jog/stand the rest of the way.

I moved to this yard end of Dec, maybe he's still settling to this route and i just need to keep doing this route until he gets used to it. Normally on grass he is sane and sensible but normally on the way home he does get a bit het up.. but nothing this bad!

I feel like he just fizzes over and with the grass growing etc, getting fit of eventing, he is just fit and well??
he has two saddled and i rode in both on separate days so not the saddle. Back has recently been done. he is ridden 6 times a week and hacked 3 times a week so hacking soundnt be this "exciting.

Is this ad still up?



Dan, although he got a very good dressage score on the horse, commented that he felt that he might be bucked off at any moment.

This horse, if he is to be sold without further veterinary investigations, needs to be sold with full disclosure of his quirks and not presented as some equine saint. My money is still on a physical problem.

 

[ycbm]

i didnt come on this forum to be witch hunted.. which is what i feel is happening

I'm not sure it's a witch hunt when you are on Facebook in the last couple of days saying the horse is good to hack when you posted this thread in January:

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/horse-has-found-a-new-gear-bucking-eek.771533/


I would put money on this horse being in pain.

I feel really sorry for you being in this situation. I completely understand you wanting rid of a horse which has made you feel a failure and who frightens you to ride. I absolutely understand that you feel that if a buyer has a five stage vetting and he passes that it would absolve you off any responsibility for what he does in future. But I think you need to ask yourself how you will feel if he kills or paralyses an over confident teenager who falls on love with hos looks and thinks they can handle his 'quirks'. And if that doesn't do it for you, maybe ask yourself how you will feel if you lose everything you own if they sue you for failing to disclose the full history of this horse.

I'm really sorry, I'm sure you feel like absolute shite right now, but you need to rethink this sale. If you sell him as he stands, then for me he's a two or three thousand pound project. If he was mine I would be putting him through a scintigraph scan.



..

 

[ester]

From the advert on here he sounds like he would be a good prospect for a 'step up horse' for someone like me. The reality is that we'd be a thoroughly dangerous combination.

 

[Michen]

The advert is appallingly inaccurate and makes my blood boil, given I was misold a horse and had to go through a horrendous time to recoup my money.

Op, if you sold me that horse and I discovered his “quirks” I’d take you straight to court. And make no mistake, private sellers can still be taken to court- it’s called misrepresentation and there’s certainly enough to prove with the forum posts etc that you’ve done exactly that.

 

[Austen123]

His advert has been taken down from social media. I am rethinking lines of approach . Thanks for all comments of support .

 

[Velcrobum]

Having followed this thread I looked at his eventing history and he had been through the hands/yards of 3 what look like professional riders. The person who had him before you riding at the old 3* level. I hate to say this but he is far to difficult/sharp a horse for you and you are right to sell him. I very much doubt you will get anything near £12k as he has a patchy BE record with pro riders and has no BD record. You have posted that he does handstands out hacking as well and I agree with others on the thread if this really is a recent onset behaviour he probably needs a bone scan to eliminate any hot spots aka sites of potential pain. If you paid £12k I am sorry you were ripped off as his BE record does not support that sort of money.

 

[Tiddlypom]

His advert has been taken down from social media. I am rethinking lines of approach . Thanks for all comments of support .

Very wise. Take stock and have a full rethink.
Was the ad you posted on FB a re run of the ad you bought him from? It mentions that the current owner has had him from a 4yo, but in reality he’s fairly new to you.

 

[Velcrobum]

Very wise. Take stock and have a full rethink.
Was the ad you posted on FB a re run of the ad you bought him from? It mentions that the current owner has had him from a 4yo, but in reality he’s fairly new to you.

I saw that as well and thought it a little strange given the posts made about the horse thus far. I do wonder if he was owned by "an owner" who sent him to a series of pro-riders who handed him back. Then the decision was made to pass him on to an unsuspecting new person who is now stuck with an unsuitable horse for them whether due to pain or temperament?

 

[FabioandFreddy]

I'm so glad I read this forum!! Currently looking for a new horse for my hubby as his horse has half retired and just hacking now. Scrolling through ads to find the 'perfect' sounding horse for him....however the name rung a bell and on checking BE record realised why. Was this chap who would be totally unsuitable for us! Why can't people be honest in ads?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well done for being on the ball.

What is he currently being advertised as? An eventer?

ETA Though maybe the OP feels that she has now found and dealt with the cause of all the behaviour problems?

 

[Red-1]

I'm so glad I read this forum!! Currently looking for a new horse for my hubby as his horse has half retired and just hacking now. Scrolling through ads to find the 'perfect' sounding horse for him....however the name rung a bell and on checking BE record realised why. Was this chap who would be totally unsuitable for us! Why can't people be honest in ads?

I had a look, didn't take long to find the advert. At least this time it says not suitable for nervous or novice. However I am not sure I would describe him as "easy to take to events on his own and is a very forgiving ride."

The video looks nice too, although looking at the video I am not sure it is the owner who has posted it. Maybe he is on sales livery?

Maybe the horse has had some schooling since this thread was last active? I did look at BE and he has not been out eventing. His flat work and jumping looks FAB. Maybe he has been out BD and BS, I have not looked them up. Looks worth his money from the advert if he has had some schooling and is going in a more settled way.

AH, ETA - It looks like his sales video was put up by his previous, professional owner/rider who sold him to OP. Maybe she has ironed out his difficulties. Sometimes an owner/horse mis-match can make the nicest horse go off the rails. I would need to see some recent form at competition to be convinced though.

 

[FabioandFreddy]

Horsequest ad 212402
Being aimed as an allrounder. Appreciate it says no nervous/novice but aside from that sounds like a saint. (Neither me or hubby are either but equally think this horse would be totally not suitable)

 

[SusieT]

Advert is still utterly misleading - makes him sound like a nice sharp competition horse, not one who is described in this thread.