ester
Not slacking multitasking
The new advert makes him sound more saintly than the previous one.
Following on from nightmare start to BE season...
- Thread starter Austen123
- Start date
Michen
Well-Known Member
God I hate this. As a victim of a totally dishonest ad where I had to take the seller to court. Op- be warned- private sale or not (mine was), my seller had to settle out of court with me as there was so much evidence of misrepresentation.
There is about 10 x what I had on her, on this thread regarding your horse.
You should be ashamed, really.
There is about 10 x what I had on her, on this thread regarding your horse.
You should be ashamed, really.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Is there any rule that would prevent someone naming this horse? His name is on the advert and it would be good if the thread came up a on a Google search for other unwary buyers.
Would it be fair? Given the pictures earlier in the thread, he could kill someone, and this advert seems pretty dishonest given his history.
Picture from page two of this thread.
Would it be fair? Given the pictures earlier in the thread, he could kill someone, and this advert seems pretty dishonest given his history.
Picture from page two of this thread.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Seeing as he is both named in the Horsequest ad #212402 and is also readily traceable by his BE record as given by the OP on this thread:-
‘Kilconnell Bay is a striking black gelding that is genuine and always wants to please.’
‘Kilconnell Bay is a striking black gelding that is genuine and always wants to please.’
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
Can only hope that there will be full disclosure of his behavioural issues when people enquire I suppose, but that will make for a very frustrating sale process with that advert as a starting point.
The jumping looks nice enough in the vid, but it's a while since I've seen a horse kick up dust that badly at walk...he does rather slipper along
The jumping looks nice enough in the vid, but it's a while since I've seen a horse kick up dust that badly at walk...he does rather slipper along
be positive
Well-Known Member
Can only hope that there will be full disclosure of his behavioural issues when people enquire I suppose, but that will make for a very frustrating sale process with that advert as a starting point.
The jumping looks nice enough in the vid, but it's a while since I've seen a horse kick up dust that badly at walk...he does rather slipper along
I have no idea whether he has returned to the previous producer but a quick search brings up the advert from 2017 and the video is exactly the same, even then he was described as 'more suited as a dressage horse' and spooky out hacking, if it is the pro selling now she needs to update the video, if not it should not be used as a true representation of how he is now.
He may have been worth £10k having just completed 2 novices but cannot be worth that now with no record for 2 years and the tricky behaviour well established.
https://www.facebook.com/hayleypark...ented-up-to-novice-he-is-gr/1340718606040841/
Hopefully any potential buyer will do their homework and not be posting on here in a few weeks time asking for advice!
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
Absolutely goes to show how wary you need to be of what people write (and don’t write) in adverts.
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
Quoting myself! As I suspected the horse was owned by another person not the professional rider (not the current owner) in the video (which looks very much like Tweseldown IMHO). OP who's name is easily found and who has a public faceache page is not being particularly honest about this horse which has when googled has history
https://www.dlphorses.com/our-horses
https://www.facebook.com/hayleypark...ented-up-to-novice-he-is-gr/1340718606040841/
and as a 5yr old (video)
Make your own conclusions
BMWKIPP
Well-Known Member
I had a suspicion she may have used the video she bought him from. What a untrustworthy person. I hope she gets caught out an no un suspecting potential buyer is hurt
Michen
Well-Known Member
She was asking for sales livery recommendations in June. It’s possible the person selling on her behalf is totally unaware of the horses history and issues, I assume OP then thinks she will get out of any responsibility if she’s not selling her directly.
Absolutely despicable. op also searching on Facebook for an event and has a “substantial†budget. Yeah- from screwing someone else over.
Hope op gets taken through the courts and she will lose a lot more than just the selling price by the time fees, upkeep etc are added.
Stupid girl.
Edited- scrap that looks like the sales livery is previous seller. Perhaps she doesn’t know about recent explosive behaviour
Absolutely despicable. op also searching on Facebook for an event and has a “substantial†budget. Yeah- from screwing someone else over.
Hope op gets taken through the courts and she will lose a lot more than just the selling price by the time fees, upkeep etc are added.
Stupid girl.
Edited- scrap that looks like the sales livery is previous seller. Perhaps she doesn’t know about recent explosive behaviour
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TPO
Well-Known Member
I dont think the OP should be hung just yet. No one knows what's happened between this threads last update and now.
Lots of recommendations were made re work ups and sending him for schooling and or sales livery with a pro. Who's to say that hasnt happened?
People posted to stop BE for now and OP has. No one knows if horse has been out to unaffiliated and if he has how he behaved.
It could be as simple as OP overhorsed themselves and the new behaviours couldn't be fixed when the pro got in him at an event. It could have been an extreme clash of personalities or something could have been found and is now fixed/treated/managed/changed.
Who's to say what seller is telling people once they physically go to view the horse. If it's with a professional to sell then they have their rep to consider too so why would they risk jeopardising their reputation for one horse. There might not even be anything to tell other than rider ans horse didnt click and sensitive horse took full advantage of that? We dont know.
It's clear that OP and horse aren't working out so what is she supposed to do? She obviously spent a lot of money purchasing him and the costs of getting him checked by vet/schooling/sales if applicable.
We all know from being on here that the written work can be misconstrued so much better to discuss a quirky horse face to face having first gauged the experience of the potential buyer.
I'd imagine that the asking price is low for what that horse has achieved and what there is potentially capacity to go on to do. I'd also hazard a guess that you are, in general, more likely to attract a capable rider with the right experience/less daydreamers in that price bracket than you are listing him as a 1k project.
I dont know OP or their situation but if I'd spent that kind of money I couldn't afford to just write it off and we also dont know if, for example, non horsey parents helped out and they dont want to see the money just disappear. We have no idea what other factors may be at play.
We've all made mistakes and we've all posted on here when emotions have been all over the place. OP was clearly upset, stressed and worried in this thread. They took the advice on board and pulled the adverts and some time has passed when 101 things could have happened to rectify the situation and no one knows the real story of what has happened and is going on.
The horses and OPs name is out there. There were posts on a FB eventing page. It's a small world and most people know to google etc so I'm sure OP and/or sales agent are aware of that and will act accordingly. Heck for all we know and based solely on assumptions already made maybe previous owner bought him back to get him going and is selling him now. If OP no longer owns him (and on page 1 or 2 she writes that shes contacted previous owner to explain what's been happening and get advice) then nothing in this thread, apart from possibly that he got the all clear when x-rayed, is currently relevant. Bottom line is we have no clue and unless we are looking to buy that horse it's none of our business.
Heck I bought a horse and it transpired that he was known on here. Apart from the best friend of the poster no one had seen said horse in the flesh or spent any time with him yet they all thought they knew him based on threads on an internet forum written by a stranger (young teen) that they liked. Their opinions based on that were somehow more valid than YOs, vets, farriers, dentist, trainers and other experienced friends who met the horse in the flesh!
Maybe people on here who aren't directly affected and dont have the full and current story should just chill a bit. OP was in a difficult situation so maybe give her the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
Lots of recommendations were made re work ups and sending him for schooling and or sales livery with a pro. Who's to say that hasnt happened?
People posted to stop BE for now and OP has. No one knows if horse has been out to unaffiliated and if he has how he behaved.
It could be as simple as OP overhorsed themselves and the new behaviours couldn't be fixed when the pro got in him at an event. It could have been an extreme clash of personalities or something could have been found and is now fixed/treated/managed/changed.
Who's to say what seller is telling people once they physically go to view the horse. If it's with a professional to sell then they have their rep to consider too so why would they risk jeopardising their reputation for one horse. There might not even be anything to tell other than rider ans horse didnt click and sensitive horse took full advantage of that? We dont know.
It's clear that OP and horse aren't working out so what is she supposed to do? She obviously spent a lot of money purchasing him and the costs of getting him checked by vet/schooling/sales if applicable.
We all know from being on here that the written work can be misconstrued so much better to discuss a quirky horse face to face having first gauged the experience of the potential buyer.
I'd imagine that the asking price is low for what that horse has achieved and what there is potentially capacity to go on to do. I'd also hazard a guess that you are, in general, more likely to attract a capable rider with the right experience/less daydreamers in that price bracket than you are listing him as a 1k project.
I dont know OP or their situation but if I'd spent that kind of money I couldn't afford to just write it off and we also dont know if, for example, non horsey parents helped out and they dont want to see the money just disappear. We have no idea what other factors may be at play.
We've all made mistakes and we've all posted on here when emotions have been all over the place. OP was clearly upset, stressed and worried in this thread. They took the advice on board and pulled the adverts and some time has passed when 101 things could have happened to rectify the situation and no one knows the real story of what has happened and is going on.
The horses and OPs name is out there. There were posts on a FB eventing page. It's a small world and most people know to google etc so I'm sure OP and/or sales agent are aware of that and will act accordingly. Heck for all we know and based solely on assumptions already made maybe previous owner bought him back to get him going and is selling him now. If OP no longer owns him (and on page 1 or 2 she writes that shes contacted previous owner to explain what's been happening and get advice) then nothing in this thread, apart from possibly that he got the all clear when x-rayed, is currently relevant. Bottom line is we have no clue and unless we are looking to buy that horse it's none of our business.
Heck I bought a horse and it transpired that he was known on here. Apart from the best friend of the poster no one had seen said horse in the flesh or spent any time with him yet they all thought they knew him based on threads on an internet forum written by a stranger (young teen) that they liked. Their opinions based on that were somehow more valid than YOs, vets, farriers, dentist, trainers and other experienced friends who met the horse in the flesh!
Maybe people on here who aren't directly affected and dont have the full and current story should just chill a bit. OP was in a difficult situation so maybe give her the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
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Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
His recent and extremely dangerous behaviour is indeed relevant to an ad for a horse who is being described as a saint and easy to do, barring chucking in a couple of advisories that he is ‘not suitable for nervous or novice riders’.
Remember that Dan commented that he felt that he might be bucked off at any moment, it’s not just a clash with the OP and this horse.
There is a market for tricky but smart looking horses, but this current HQ ad is not being upfront at all, is it.
Remember that Dan commented that he felt that he might be bucked off at any moment, it’s not just a clash with the OP and this horse.
There is a market for tricky but smart looking horses, but this current HQ ad is not being upfront at all, is it.
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Michen
Well-Known Member
What TP said below but also to add- the money is irrelevant. If you purchase a horse unless insuring loss of use up to the eyeballs you have to accept that you are likely to lose the purchase price. OP is currently advertising for another horse, looking for one with a “substantial budgetâ€.
Needing the money back doesn’t give you the right to then potentially wrong someone else out of their money.
As for the horse, regardless of if he’s now suddenly a saint, his past behaviour was dangerous and there is no way in a matter of months anyone could wholeheartedly say that was “fixedâ€. Perhaps after a year of eventing with immaculate behaviour but certainly not now.
I feel for op in one sense but having been in the situation of being sold a horse with a known rearing problem, I completely accepted I had to write off my 4K (which btw, I had a bank loan for) because I certainly couldn’t re sell her. I was lucky the seller settled out of court but in my mind the money was gone and for me that meant not being able to afford another horse (hence then taking one on loan). Op is clearly not in this position when she is currently looking for another eventer.
Sorry, maybe I’m harsher than others as I’ve been on the receiving end of this, but this whole thing is wrong.
I feel for the poor horse as well.
TPO
Well-Known Member
As I said no one on here if an explanation had been found and the situation rectified. Maybe it was all rider related and he's gone to someone else and theres been no issues. Maybe OP no longer owns him; that would tie in with people stalking her on FB to see she has money available to buy another. No one knows what is being discussed with potential buyers when they call about him or go visit.
Dan rode the horse one time when OP arrived at event with it. Who's to say that the way the horse was kept, managed, ridden, fed, grazed etc wasnt a contributing factor. Dont have to look far to find threads showing completely personality changes with feed changes! Who's to say that changes and management strategies haven't been put in place to totally rectify the situation. Who's to say potential buyers arent being told chapter and verse about him.
I had a really tricky horse who was a nightmare when he arrived. I advertised him for sale when I had him going and described him in the ad as he currently was. I weeded out people when they called and refused to let three potential buyers even come out to try him because I knew they weren't suitable. Out of the people who came out I explained in more detail on the phone how he needed handled. I had 3 people out to him and told them a more thorough explanation of basically his every move since I bought him. I actually sold him unseen to a very experienced couple way down south (I had friends who knew them and it all checked out). It was because I told them every morsel about him that she was confident to buy unseen. She said my truth about him in the beginning that she couldn't imagine him managing to be worse than that and if she knew the worst scenario she was happy to believe I was being honest now.
I dont know what people expect OP to do. There is no end of threads on here with OPs being told to sell their horses at the first blip because it's not meant to be and when an OP does it they are being criticised. Anyone with half a brain can read between the lines when a horse of that standard/potential is "only" 10k, described thay way and no novices line. People who ste genuinely interested can call and get the full story. There wont be many potential buyers who won't google his name and I'm sure OP/seller is aware of that.
Bottom line is no one knows what's going on re the horses current ownership, who's selling him, his behaviour etc so maybe stop projecting what could be happening and making out that anything underhand is happening when theres ever chance that's not the case at all.
So many people on this forum cant wait to stick the knife into people
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TPO
Well-Known Member
I get that Michen but the bottom line is you dont know what the situation is with this horse.
No one knows that he is being actively mis-sold as is being implied.
OP might not even own him. If, as some people have suggested, hes back with his previous owner theres maybe a very good reason why they were happy to buy back and happy to resell after they've worked with him again. This horse might now be nothing to do with OP.
I've seen plenty of horses act up in dramatic ways with people only to go on to be saints with others. Lots of pro/not amateur horses need specialised management and is they are talented they are worth the work. He could be a bargain of a horse for a pro who can put things in place to keep him happy.
Again no one knows the situation. Although I wouldn't put it past some of the twisted folk who frequent here to phone under false pretenses just so they can prolong slandering OP on here! It wouldn't be the first time something like that had happened.
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
I don't think that's really fair. TP is being quite direct but I think it's a bit of a leap to say that her motivation is to stick the knife in.
TPO
Well-Known Member
It wasn't aimed at any particular individual it was a general statement based on 15yrs experience of this forum
be positive
Well-Known Member
I think one point is being missed, this horse does not have a good BE record, not a solid one that shows much talent other than he can complete with low placings up to novice, he was advertised at the 'low' price of £10k just after his novice runs which implies he will not go up the grades or there was an underlying issue, the ad then said more likely to make a dressage horse/ spooky hack, if he had the potential/ record to go on up the levels BE he would have been at least twice the price 2 years ago.
He has now proved he is tricky, has no recent record and the price is the same, it may not be about money but unless something has changed in the past month or so he is not worth £10k now and the ad is misleading on every level, especially using the videos that are over 2 years old as a representation of what he can do, whether he is now with the original pro or not the information should be recent if it is to be an honest sale .
He has now proved he is tricky, has no recent record and the price is the same, it may not be about money but unless something has changed in the past month or so he is not worth £10k now and the ad is misleading on every level, especially using the videos that are over 2 years old as a representation of what he can do, whether he is now with the original pro or not the information should be recent if it is to be an honest sale .
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Personally I think there is enough on this thread for an astute buyer to pick up off a google search and make their own mind up. And a non astute buyer won’t see this thread anyway.
I don’t like the advert. But TPO has a very valid point.
Personally I think the HHO mob culture could drop this one now.
I don’t like the advert. But TPO has a very valid point.
Personally I think the HHO mob culture could drop this one now.
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
Then I think that's even more unfair, and I would wonder why you wish to still participate in this community...?
I absolutely agree with you that the OP should not be judged harshly based on this situation or advert, because it is not known to any of us on here what the true situation is. And I think it is highly likely that the OP doesn't actually own the horse anymore. But posters that do speak in a fairly forthright manner about this situation I assume that they feel passionately about the sale of horses with an undisclosed history for one reason or another....I don't assume (nor in any way think it is correct) that posters are lurking about on line waiting for an opportunity to stick the knife in.
I'm very sorry that you had a bad experience with people on here when you bought your previous horse. I've had bad experiences on here, but not because anyone had been obscenely horrible, mainly just because of my own personal sometimes painful baggage that I (and most people) bring with me on certain subjects.
I, like you and like a lot of other people on here, have sold a horse with current or recent behavioural issues. It's not rocket science, you put it for a reduced price, state that this is due to some recent behavioural problems because the previous owner was overhorsed. And in my experience you will generally get a lot of calls from an ad like that. It takes considerably more effort to write an ad skirting around the truth and then having to explain it all to a prospective buyer.
littlefluffball
Well-Known Member
Reading this with interest as someone who is starting to dip my toe into the water for buying....
I was reading a few adverts with the OH at the weekend who just kept saying "I wouldn't believe what anyone says in any of the adverts....."
Reading stuff like this does worry me tbh. I would want to know of any previous "quirks" even if they had been ironed out at the time of advertising. There is a significant cost involved in buying horses (even the ones with a "low" price tag) in terms of money, time, safety etc
I hope there is a happy ending here....
I was reading a few adverts with the OH at the weekend who just kept saying "I wouldn't believe what anyone says in any of the adverts....."
Reading stuff like this does worry me tbh. I would want to know of any previous "quirks" even if they had been ironed out at the time of advertising. There is a significant cost involved in buying horses (even the ones with a "low" price tag) in terms of money, time, safety etc
I hope there is a happy ending here....
littlefluffball
Well-Known Member
It's a good thing we can do that now..... I shudder at the thought of pre googling times where all information was not there for all and sundry to see online.... scary how many horses may have been mis sold. Thankfully before my time!
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
I agree with this. Max was 'fixed' according to the rehab livery people - physical issues sorted out. Behaviour impeccable. I could have put him up for sale then. But I wanted him well behaved in full work for 6 months before I would sell on hence the loan agreement that ran till October. That was to protect him from ending up being passed from pillar to post and to protect future buyers. Then the old behaviour very suddenly reappeared and he reared repeatedly and went over with a pro on board who said she would never get on him again and nor should anyone else. Cost me a lot to wait and see - and now I am stuck with him! - but I am bl00dy glad I did. I could not live with myself if I got a call and he had done that and severely injured or killed someone I had sold him to, knowing his potential for dangerous behaviour. This horse was described 2 years ago as best suited to dressage and spooky. This does not sound to be like a short term, uncharacteristic episode with an over-horsed owner but a very tricky horse.
I do appreciate all that TPO is saying and I agree OP is doing the right thing selling on and I think there s a market for a horse like this. But it is at best wishful thinking to describe him as genuine and always wanting to please so soon after putting his rider in hospital! Perhaps there is full disclosure when people ring up but the ad should in my view, read 'needs an experienced rider', rather than not suitable for a nervous novice and should get rid of the fluff that makes him sound Saintly.
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Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
"This horse was described 2 years ago as best suited to dressage and spooky."
Described by a rider who at that point had a few 3* completions at BE and probably knew what she was talking about. So as stands the current advert is not truthful-statement of fact about this horse who's behaviours have been extensively documented on a public forum so not "putting the knife in".
MyBoyChe
Well-Known Member
I do like the bit of the ad on the DLP site which states "lots of presence in the arena! You cant argue with that
Annagain
Well-Known Member
If you google his name, and find his sales video independently of the advert (which doesn’t show a date) you’ll see the video was only posted 3 days ago by the person who was selling him in 2017. It might be an old video but it’s recently re-posted and not by OP. I don’t think OP has used an old video, I think the original seller has either had him back from the OP and is now selling him again or is selling him on her behalf. The 2017 advert sounds a bit more honest than the most recent.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
I had a friend who bought (was missold) a pony who bucked/broncced regularly. Original seller refused to have her back so she sent her to sales livery. Sales livery person claimed pony was fine - just needed more confident riding - and sold on - supposedly to a suitable home with the right experience. The new owners sent her back a couple of weeks later as mis-represented and it was my friend who had to take her back not the sales livery person who then refused to have anything more to do with the pony. My friend got legal advice but as she was still the owner when sold, it was her who had to have the pony back. Having already bought another! So unless OP has sold the horse or successfully returned it, she needs to be aware that she is responsible for how horse is described in any ads. It would be foolish to allow the horse to be mis-represented as it could come back to bite her.
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
Ad is still up unchanged but price is now £8500 ONO