Following on from the passport query...

[Gingernags]

Can a Livery YO be fined for not having all the horses on the premises passports in his/her possession?

Surely as the legal obligation to have a valid passport falls on the OWNER of the horse, the fine for not having the passport would be only down to the owner?

As a legal document, my passport stays at home where it is safe, not left in a farmyard, or locked in the farmhouse where I don't have access to it, or in the trailer where horse, passport and transport could then be stolen in one fell swoop...

And surely if it came to court - say the council DID turn up and my passport wasn't there and they decided to fine me - the reasons above would be a reasonable explanation of why the passport wasn't with the horse?

I really can't see why they could hold the YO legally responsible and fine them when they don't own the horse and therefore aren't breaking the law?

I can see why with a transport company they would need to carry them as that is part of the legislation as they are moving horses from place to place, but again, really it is the horse owner who would be at fault for with-holding it as they are the people who have to purchase one for each horse they own?

Feel free to prove me wrong with bits of legislation, but thought it was worth asking..!

 

[Rambo]

Well, I might be talking complete bull....but if they turn up at a yard and find horses without passports, how do they know who the horses belong to !? It might be a case of being able to produce a passport for horses on your premises

 

[airedale]

far as I know regulation states that passport must be with horse at all times

so if horse is at a stables, passport should be with it

but as I said before it must also be held under the requirements of the Data Protection Act - i.e. in a locked file and in a locked room/office without general public access.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
And surely if it came to court - say the council DID turn up and my passport wasn't there and they decided to fine me

[/ QUOTE ]
What involvement does the council have - surely it's just DEFRA?

 

[airedale]

Extract from the Statutory Instrument

21.—(1) An inspector shall, on producing a duly authenticated document showing his authority,
have a right at all reasonable hours, to enter any premises (excluding any premises not containing
any horse and used only as a dwelling) for the purpose of administering and enforcing these
Regulations; and in this regulation “premises” includes any vehicle or container.
(2) An inspector may—
(a) require the production of a passport;
(b) carry out any inquiries;
(c) have access to, and inspect and copy any records (in whatever form they are held) kept
under these Regulations;
(d) remove such records to enable them to be copied;
(e) have access to, inspect and check the operation of any computer and any associated
apparatus or material that is or has been in use in connection with the records; and for this
8
purpose may require any person having charge of, or otherwise concerned with the
operation of, the computer, apparatus or material to afford him such assistance as he may
reasonably require and, where a record is kept by means of a computer, may require the
records to be produced in a form in which they may be taken away;
(f) mark any animal or other thing for identification purposes; and
(g) take with him—
(i) such other persons as he considers necessary; and
(ii) any representative of the European Commission properly interested in the
administration of these Regulations.
(3) No person shall deface, obliterate or remove any mark applied under paragraph (2) except
under the written authority of an inspector.
(4) If an inspector enters any unoccupied premises he shall leave them as effectively secured
against unauthorised entry as he found them.
(5) In this regulation “inspector” means a person appointed as such by a local authority or the
Secretary of State for the enforcement of these Regulations.
Obstruction
22. No person shall—
(a) intentionally obstruct any person acting in the execution of these Regulations;
(b) without reasonable cause, fail to give to any person acting in the execution of these
Regulations any assistance or information that that person may reasonably require of him
for the performance of his functions under these Regulations;
(c) furnish to any person acting in the execution of these Regulations any information that he
knows to be false or misleading; or
(d) fail to produce a record when required to do so to any person acting in the execution of
these Regulations.
Offences


So they have the right to enter and search and require passports to be produced immediately for any property having horses other than a plain residence

full SI is at http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/horses/pdfs/passport_si.pdf

 

[Flossie06]

But also doesn't the vet need to haev the passport to treat horses? So if its a full livery yard then surely it makes sense for the passport to be at the yard with the horse?

 

[Rambo]

LOL!

Yes, but that's the same document I quoted in the other thread that states in Section 17 a passport is only required to be travelled with a horse forthe purposes of competing, breeding, moving outside the UK etc

It's a wholly confusing piece of legislation that I reckon could do with some clarification !?

 

[SSM]

How do they know which passport belongs to which horse?? - okay so bay, grey etc but my passport does not contain a photo of donkey and if I had a yard full of them they would all be described as bay and 16.1 etc etc

My passport is kept at home, there is no 'Yard Owner' on site on our yard 24/7 - and I struggle to remember to take it with me to shows - (shall put a photo copy somewhere safe in the car just in case I forget again)

 

[KatB]

CHAPS passports are obviously superior.... mine has a piccie of moo cow.... which to me is not logical as the marking sheet would provide enough ID with a coloured??!!!

 

[SSM]

Okay so superior - did make me smile, coloured as you say you can mark where the colour is, however Cleveland Bay passports even with photos could be very similar - as I said bay, bay bay and more bay - with maybe a white star thrown in if you are lucky!!

 

[KatB]

Yep! Its just to prove something with such odd markings can be a horse.....

 

[Snowberry]

passports are definitely a farce.

I produced Glens passport when he needed some antibiotics and bute and the vet asked me what he needed it for??!!

I had a good look at Glen's passport and its not even mentioned his age

I never carry my passports with me and I've never been asked for them at a show, even at County level.
I tried returning passports of 3horses that had died (none of the vets that PTS stamped or signed the passports) and none of them were interested in getting the passports back!!

So, if I was a dodgy person (which I'm not

) I could sell Glen on as a 15/16yr old pony (he's 23) and use the passports to make my other horses into either a section D or a ISH??!!

Another waste of money imho!

 

[jinglejoys]

Its nothing to do with DEATHRA they just make the rules then sit back and watch the meyhem--its Trading Standards that does the checking.
My vet has never asked for my passport yet,guess he's one of those that's more interested in treating the animal!

 

[JessPickle]

Pickle passport wouldnt prove much, the age is wrong (from my research) the height is wrong (from research I have done)

and all it says then is his breed then there is a sheet about his markings in there. His freezemark isnt mentioned ever apart from in tiny print somewhere!!!!

Am trying to get it changed but it is a nightmare!

 

[vicijp]

Surely you have to mark the whorls on the riding horse passports? Thats largely how TB's are identified.
The sooner microchipping is made compulsory the better.

 

[foraday]

Different councils have different rules! They would need to know how many horses the yard owner actually owns due to business rates.

All yards are charged business rates on the stables, arena, parking, lights, rubbish, the air that you breathe (ok not the last one)

The yard owner has to prove how many stables are 'rented out' and how many of the horses are her own-they then charge accordingly even empty stables get charged!!!

So a copy of your horses passport would suffice really.

At my yard I have left a file of copies of insurance, medical history's, alternative contacts, transport companies to use, copies of passports, farrier details & how the horses are currently shod.

i only leave my passports when I am away for a few days so if they needed to be transported to hospital then all would be well.

Other owners do leave their passports there but these horses don't usually leave the yard to do outings etc.