Following on from vet request - should I walk away from pony with heart murmur..?

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Ponysquisher

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Hello again,

I think I know what the answer is!

Pony we had vetted this morning has a heart murmur. Now we know it's there it feels like too much of a risk. But just wondered if anyone has gone on & bought something with this..?

Thank you :o)
 
Ah yes, bit more information would probably be helpful! We just want her for a hacking, bit of jumping & showing etc. So nothing too strenuous or competitive.

Vet didn't give me a number 1-5 but she's only a yearling so he said it must be quite noticeable as obviously she hadn't exerted herself prior to be checked. He said we could take her for a scan etc. but that will still only give us a probability so would still need to make a call at that point. And would be yet more money down as well.

Tbh it's her age that's throwing me - if we hadn't had her vetted, it might never give her any issues & we might never have known about it. But of course it could develop as she grows & become a huge deal. And assume it'll affect her insurability as well...
 
An awful lot of young animals, including humans, have heart murmurs that are insignificant. The vet should be able to tell you the grade of murmur, that will give you an idea of its severity and whether further investigation is needed. I would not be too concerned, for example, if the horse had a Grade 1 murmur that did not worsen after exercise. Did he check after exercise?
 
One of my liveries had a horse on loan with view to buy. She was a fresh off the track race horse. Stunning, fit and with a lovely temperament. She also proved to be highly trainable and I had her working over her back and accepting a contact within one schooling session. She was also bomb proof to hack. The trainer was asking £2k for her, a bargain. Livery had her vetted and the vet said 'Well I know why she wasn't much good at racing, she has a heart murmur'. He said it was bad, a grade four. However, livery loved her so much she decided to go ahead. She offered £1k for the horse. This was turned down, but they settled on £1500. As for the mare, she and her new owner moved to a DIY yard and then she took her to Holland. She has had no problems so far with the horse even though she is in medium work and regularly competes at riding club level. After this, I was told that many race horses have some degree of heart murmur, and that it can be brought on by viruses or by very hard work. They can also be temporary.
 
A friend of mine bought a 6 month old foal with a heart murmur at the vetting, paid an awful lot of money for it too. Horse is now rising 5 and hasn't had any problems because of it, but hasn't yet been backed for one reason or another so couldn't say if it would affect her ridden work.

Not sure I would want to buy trouble though, unless the vet can confirm it's likely to be minor or temporary.
 
It depends on the type of murmer and it's severity my TB has one but passed a five stage vetting with it we had a hunter who had a serious heart problem picked up on vetting so serious the owner was able to claim LOU, only the vet can advise you .
 
As above really, there's no right or wrong answer with this, a horse can be as fit as a fiddle and drop dead with a heart problem with no prior warning, or you can have horses that survive to their mid thirties with heart murmurs, I have had both. If the horse is right and everything else is a positive then I would go for it, it's quite possible it will disappear of it's own accord and heart murmurs AFAIK are not indicative of any loss of high level performance (there's no grey area so to speak they either function or not!).
 
i would ask the vet to check it again, i have in the past had 2 very different horses including a baby with heart murmurs, the baby had it when he had an accident and coliced, it was gone within a week, the other had one and when vet came back out 1 month later it too was also gone. both were obviously nothing to be concerned about but i would get vet out again to check and take it from there x
 
A friend just brought a horse with a murmur after the current owner paid for it to be scanned and the location of the leaking valve and size where deemed to be nothing to be concerned about (though obviously this was reflected in the horses value).
 
I bought my mare aged 14 with a grade 1-2 murmur- had six wonderful years with her before her heart finally gave out and I had to have her PTS.

I wouldn't have changed the time I had with her for the world- she was 'only' a happy hacker but we did some fairly extreme hacking- BUT I wouldn't buy another with a known murmur- every time I hacked her out without fail it crossed my mind that it might be the day her heart gave up underneath me :/
 
Heart murmurs vary enormously - from temporary to permanent - and from 'insignificant' to 'sinister'! Youngsters have them - there is one loosely described as a "2 year old squeak". An experienced equine vet should have an idea of what sort of murmur it is and whether it's ever likely to cause problems but the odd one is 'unclear' and an ultrasound of the heart is needed to be sure!

Mark Patteson is the best - see http://www.heartvets.co.uk/where-do-we-work/
but any good referral hospital should be able to give a thorough answer!
 
My new boy (he's 13) has a grade 2 heart murmur and passed a 5 stage vetting. The vet said it is common in horses and it wasn't a cause for concern at all. His heart rate was fine after strenuous exercise and slowed down at a normal rate when resting. He's done a lot of hunting and jumping and I've had no problems hacking schooling or jumping him.
 
Would totally and only take the vet's lead. Vetting is there for a reason - it's a vetting for purpose!

Had a 5yo cob type vetted last year as a low-level all-rounder and he flunked at the first stage. It could be heard very clearly slushing; can't remember what grade it was given but obv high. It was sad but he could have gone happily for years or he could have gone from underneath me xc the week after. No sense buying big known problems.
 
Hi again,

Thanks very much for all your comments and stories. We've decided to wait for a few weeks & then see if the murmur is still there.

As CC says, I had her vetted for a reason so don't want to rush into something that could go pear-shaped! Fingers crossed it disappears in the meantime...
 
My first pony had a heart murmur that was picked up on vetting, we still went for it and for the 8 years I had her she never had any problems and I did a lot with her!

When she was having surgery I mentioned it to the vet as I was concerned it could cause problems under GA, but they said it can be very common for horses to show up with heart murmurs if they are stressed or something because they are very large animals and it can be difficult to get a totally accurate reading. When they checked her heart before an op, they found nothing.

I would say waiting and seeing if its still there would be best, and make sure the vet gives you a 1-5 grade this time, good luck!
 
Even the gradings don't give an indication of how serious a murmur is - you can have a very loud harmless murmur or a very quiet sinister one. It all depends on which chamber is leaking into which.

One thing the consultant that scanned Spud said is that horse's hearts are so large and inefficient at rest that many horses do leak all over the place. And actually sometimes murmurs can be a sign of a very big, powerful heart so there is a school of thought that a 'harmless' murmur or two is a sign of a large heart and potential good performance. They are very very common in racehorses.

Spud actually has three which is a bit scary. Two loud and harmless ones, and one quiet barely audible one that may cause issues in the future. The consultant was quite happy for him to continue doing endurance (in fact said that was the best sport for him because he would have his heart listened to more than most other horses) but it would be prudent to keep him in his comfort zone and not try and break any land speed records. She also took detailed measurements, so if we do notice any deterioration in performance in the future we can get him re-scanned and see if the potentially sinister murmur has got worse. Touch wood so far all is fine.

Janet George has good advice - speak to a heart expert. Spud's potentially dodgy quiet third murmur was originally picked up by a heart geek of a vet in the corner of a windy field at an endurance ride in the peeing down rain. Her diagnosis turned out to be absolutely spot on and matched the scan that we then got done. A specialist will know what they're talking about and will be able to advise you whether it's something she's likely to grow out of.
 
what condition is the pony in?
ive heard of horses having murmers when unfit but then when fir and healthly it goes.
depends what you want to do with pony too if it is a permanent thing
 
Thanks for your further comments. I've just received the report from the vet in the post. It says the murmur is 2/6 if that means anything to anyone!

Really nice to hear all your positive stories, thank you! Neither us nor the seller is in a hurry so hopefully if we get her scanned again in a few weeks it might have gone. Otherwise will have to make a decision either way - I'd decided to let her go but now reading all your stories I'm thinking maybe I'm overreacting!
 
Ponysquisher said:
I'm overreacting!
Click to expand...

Depends on the results, my friend was in the same position (murmur picked up on vetting). Seller was happy to pay for scan and my friend talked to the scanning vet on the phone to get the results 1st hand. As the results proved the murmur was nothing to be concerned about re: performance, she proceeded with the sale have negotiated with the seller.
 
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