following on my guarding question-i didn't want THAT!

[Megibo]

had a bad walk with my dog today, the snarly dog he usually ignores made him whine and jump from side to side and forwards then back again, a jogger coming past us (silently and from behind) got his back up and he tried to chase it and he nearly pulled me into a ditch when a tractor came by us. inbetween he was good at heeling, however him being a rottie i want his rep around here to be good and i am concerned about this:
as we came toward home, we heard footsteps on a stone driveway and a jogger came round the corner out of his house. i jumped, and nico became alert. i made him sit and got him out the way and as the bloke drew level he turned to us and said 'thanks' (presumably cause i moved nico). there was a seconds pause and nico jumped forward (was pulled up short by the lead) let out a mighty snarl and barked/howled after him. the bloke ran off rather than jogged and i reprimanded nico and he behaved very well afterwards.
what can i do about these sort of reactions ? any ideas? normally he's soppy with a waggly bum for strangers on walks

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Is it possible to make him sit and face you and distract with a treat, tons of praise for ignoring? I've done this lots recently but I understand it is not so easy to make a dog the size of Nico do something he maybe doesn't want to do.

I perfectly understand the reputation you want him to have, particularly if you often use the same route and encounter the same people.

Can you use any stooges/mates to do aversion therapy type work so Nico sees lots of scary/different things/situations?

 

[gugglebum]

Distraction worked well for my dog, and in time he grew out of it. I had to try very hard not to transmit my apprehension & tension down the lead though. Tasty bits of hot dog in a freezer bag in my pocket accompanied us on many a walk

 

[CorvusCorax]

Look, T, he's a puppy, what, eight, nine months old? He will be a bit bolshy and boisterous and test you a little until he is about 12-18 months old. He isn't going to turn into a monster, promise
You'll be on here a lot if you stress out about every lapse. You reprimanded him and he behaved well afterwards - there's your key answer here keep your training positive, by and large, but don't tolerate silly behaviour either.
Now is a good time to do tonnes of distraction work, keep him hungry for his, make him work for his food (he is a pup and he is a foody breed, I know people who compete at a very high level because their dogs have their food drive manipulated it's nothing to do with being a rubbish trainer and 'relying on food') yes, you will spend lots of time on a walk looking like an idiot, lots of stopping and starting and changing direction but it will wear him out if done right and at this age you shouldn't worry about over-exercising him anyway, to protect his joints.

"we heard footsteps on a stone driveway and a jogger came round the corner out of his house. i jumped, and nico became alert" - I bet you a tenner you got alert before he did.

Look out a good trainer used to working with big/working breeds and get them to watch you and guide you if you're worried.

With some dogs I don't like the sitting still thing, I prefer to keep them moving to focus them, sitting them can create a 'Mexican stand off'.

 

[smiffyimp]

Clicker training is fantastic for dogs. I trained with an APDT trainer (I recommend her but shes in Oxford if you go the APDT website (google) there are loads of trainers around. All positive training, but as CaveCanem so wisely puts (and CC does know her stuff) your dog is at the teenager stage and teenagers try it on! Go out loaded with smelly cheese and be prepare to look like a plonker (the amount of times ive rolled around on the floor to get a recall.
I remember my Golden retriever, gorgeous pup and everybody wanted to cuddle him - which he was def up for but I didnt want him jumping up. People used to say - we dont mind, no but I DO!!! So i'd make him sit, give him a treat and politely ask the person to approach to pat him and walk away if he jumped. Job done! He doesnt jump up - mind he is 6 now, so he'd better not

 

[Megibo]

Look, T, he's a puppy, what, eight, nine months old? He will be a bit bolshy and boisterous and test you a little until he is about 12-18 months old. He isn't going to turn into a monster, promise
You'll be on here a lot if you stress out about every lapse. You reprimanded him and he behaved well afterwards - there's your key answer here keep your training positive, by and large, but don't tolerate silly behaviour either.
Now is a good time to do tonnes of distraction work, keep him hungry for his, make him work for his food (he is a pup and he is a foody breed, I know people who compete at a very high level because their dogs have their food drive manipulated it's nothing to do with being a rubbish trainer and 'relying on food') yes, you will spend lots of time on a walk looking like an idiot, lots of stopping and starting and changing direction but it will wear him out if done right and at this age you shouldn't worry about over-exercising him anyway, to protect his joints.

"we heard footsteps on a stone driveway and a jogger came round the corner out of his house. i jumped, and nico became alert" - I bet you a tenner you got alert before he did.

Look out a good trainer used to working with big/working breeds and get them to watch you and guide you if you're worried.

With some dogs I don't like the sitting still thing, I prefer to keep them moving to focus them, sitting them can create a 'Mexican stand off'.

sorry i reaaally do not want him to be a 'stereotypical' rottie in the sense that if anyone dare thank me on a walk he decides they must be shouted at! i think i'll start taking food out and constantly occupy his attention. i did become alert just cause i heard the noise but i didn't expect nico to snarl or bark at all.
i think i'll be taking him back to the wednesday sessions when possible and ask the trainer there. in meantime i'll keep walking his daily route and practice obedience out on walks-he seems to think that once we leave the house he doesn't have to listen

 

[CorvusCorax]

Practice wee simple control things in the house as well as outside and on the walk - he wants something, food, ball, to walk through a door, he has to be sitting and quiet and looking at you, ignore all silly, whiny, frustrated behaviour, be firm, don't give up if you're tired and irritable, don't lose your temper - he doesn't get what he want until he executes the behaviour you want and like you say, on walks to, we spend a good bit of our morning bimble doing little exercises, much more fulfilling for us both than a nose-on-the-floor session.

You were 'expecting' 'something' - that's all the dog feels and will react accordingly - don't make it happen

Don't be sorry, you want to see the amount of wibbling I did on here with the older dog

 

[Megibo]

Practice wee simple control things in the house as well as outside and on the walk - he wants something, food, ball, to walk through a door, he has to be sitting and quiet and looking at you, ignore all silly, whiny, frustrated behaviour, be firm, don't give up if you're tired and irritable, don't lose your temper - he doesn't get what he want until he executes the behaviour you want and like you say, on walks to, we spend a good bit of our morning bimble doing little exercises, much more fulfilling for us both than a nose-on-the-floor session.

You were 'expecting' 'something' - that's all the dog feels and will react accordingly - don't make it happen

Don't be sorry, you want to see the amount of wibbling I did on here with the older dog

Okay, thanks. I shall work on this for a while and hope to see improvement! He's a smartie pants so there should be some
Oh so, he thought i was expecting that bloke to do something, and then when he spoke to me(therefore 'doing something') Nico reacted very vocally as he thought that's what i wanted ??
you know it's a bit like horses, if you expect them to spook, they will!

 

[CorvusCorax]

I wouldn't even look that deeply into it (I recommended a book called The Culture Clash on another thread, yeah, she can be a bit fluffy but a great insight into the mind of a dog!) and it's no cast iron guarantee, because I wasn't there.

They don't react like that because they think we 'want' them to, they just feel tension and pressure down the lead. But yes, like a horse, if you expect things (oh crap, there's a pallet, I bet he spooks at that) they will

 

[Megibo]

I wouldn't even look that deeply into it (I recommended a book called The Culture Clash on another thread, yeah, she can be a bit fluffy but a great insight into the mind of a dog!) and it's no cast iron guarantee, because I wasn't there.

They don't react like that because they think we 'want' them to, they just feel tension and pressure down the lead. But yes, like a horse, if you expect things (oh crap, there's a pallet, I bet he spooks at that) they will

thanks will order the book when i get some pennies! i've also been considering getting a book called rottweilers for dummies!!

 

[Cahill]

i know this sounds silly but....
if i spot something that mine may get `funny` (jogger,cyclist,cat and the like) about i get a treat out of my dog-training-pouch and get him to work for the treat,like doing little twirlies etc or i get his raggy-toy and say`whats this` and start to play with it.
its kind of like making yourself more fun and exiting than the other `thing`.
i also took mine to some very busy boot sales and there was so much going on that it seemed to busy for him to fix on any 1 thing.

horses and dogs reins and leads are like telephone wires and your feeling transmit along them.

thats just what i think.

edited to say.....yes,i do jump about like a looney sometimes but i`m too old to care and if it works then it ok. lol

 

[CorvusCorax]

Cahill, doesn't sound silly at all, I can't walk wearing anything with less than six pockets to hold various fun things and got told off by a local motorist last night for ignoring the traffic whizzing past me and jumping all over the verge swinging a ball on a rope

 

[Dobiegirl]

Not much to add CC has said it all But I wouldnt get him to sit when something unexpected happens because this gives him the onus to do anything. What I would do is take out 2 types of treats and when you get something big happen like the jogger I would give him the big treat as you are leading him away, talking to him in a positive way.

I am a big fan of the clicker but in situations like this unless you are quick and proficient they can be difficult to use because you are fishing around in your pocket for it and you have lost the moment.

 

[Cahill]

Cahill, doesn't sound silly at all, I can't walk wearing anything with less than six pockets to hold various fun things and got told off by a local motorist last night for ignoring the traffic whizzing past me and jumping all over the verge swinging a ball on a rope

jimbo and i play hide & seek around my trailer,we take it in turns to chase each other and i jump out and go `raaaa!!!! `

i wonder if my neighbour has seen us?

think he is used to silly leaping people by us doing this

 

[CorvusCorax]

DG, my clicker has a wee elasticated band so it is always on my wrist

 

[lexiedhb]

Dex can be the same, loads better now. Before it would be lungey barky type behaviour, now either he will sit- on a narrow path, whilst staring intently at me, or he will carry on walking, whilst staring intently at me- (I say Me, what i really mean is at the treat!!!) My clicker is now also surgically attached to my wrist!

 

[Megibo]

Cahill, doesn't sound silly at all, I can't walk wearing anything with less than six pockets to hold various fun things and got told off by a local motorist last night for ignoring the traffic whizzing past me and jumping all over the verge swinging a ball on a rope

pmsl


well thankyou everyone (again, ha ha) i will bear all this in mind.
what, by the way, is schutzhund? apparently good for dogs?

 

[CorvusCorax]

As with a lot of other things - it depends on the dog!

It's three phases, tracking, obedience, protection, it is *very* precise sport compared to KC disciplines, and a lot of work/commitment needs to be put in, there's a lot of conditioning.
FI - the basic entry-level obedience qualification is comparable to the obedience part of the KC Good Citizen Gold award.
You can give no hand signals, everything is one command only, up to three additional commands, exercise over, if the dog gets up and moves during the downstay, exercise over, etc etc etc.
If a food or ball is found in your pockets, you're off the field.

It's great for dogs that need a job/occupation.
For various phases, the dog needs a strong ball/play drive, strong food drive and strong prey drive.

But it does not suit all dogs, it can be quite high pressured - for instance, my older male, doesn't enjoy obedience, so we do tracking.
Protection work for him is right out - it would blow his brains. I've spent too long putting a lid on his defensive behaviour to try and bring it out of him again. For the protection work, you ideally want to build it out of a 'game' (the foundation training is just a big game of tug-and-release) and make it something fun, not making the dog think both he and his handler are in mortal danger, that is very stressful for a dog and not really fair.

 

[lexiedhb]

You would probably be better just taking him along to your local training class to begin with no?

 

[Megibo]

As with a lot of other things - it depends on the dog!

It's three phases, tracking, obedience, protection, it is *very* precise sport compared to KC disciplines, and a lot of work/commitment needs to be put in, there's a lot of conditioning.
FI - the basic entry-level obedience qualification is comparable to the obedience part of the KC Good Citizen Gold award.
You can give no hand signals, everything is one command only, up to three additional commands, exercise over, if the dog gets up and moves during the downstay, exercise over, etc etc etc.
If a food or ball is found in your pockets, you're off the field.

It's great for dogs that need a job/occupation.
For various phases, the dog needs a strong ball/play drive, strong food drive and strong prey drive.

But it does not suit all dogs, it can be quite high pressured - for instance, my older male, doesn't enjoy obedience, so we do tracking.
Protection work for him is right out - it would blow his brains. I've spent too long putting a lid on his defensive behaviour to try and bring it out of him again. For the protection work, you ideally want to build it out of a 'game' (the foundation training is just a big game of tug-and-release) and make it something fun, not making the dog think both he and his handler are in mortal danger, that is very stressful for a dog and not really fair.

interesting! i wont try it myself but was curious as to what it actually was have to go over all his commands whilst outside though

 

[Megibo]

You would probably be better just taking him along to your local training class to begin with no?

he was in dog training for the first 6 months (roughly) of his life.
he's well trained, just not outdoors he seems to think the lead means no training. he'll sit on the third ask at a road etc...
so i am going back over it outside so he learns to respond to commands anywhere.

 

[Spudlet]

In that case, I think you need to go back to training. He's still young, and if you are asking three times - no, sorry, he is not yet well trained. Doesn't mean he can't become so! But it sounds like you need some help from someone who is actually there and can see how you and he are behaving.

Training doesn't just stop at the age of six months or whenever - every second you spend interacting with your dog is 'training' of one kind or another. That's just dogs for you!

 

[lexiedhb]

6 months of training is not enough IMO.... keep taking him. My loon does not even be told to sit when i stop at a kerb out on a walk, he just does it now, as he knows we will not continue until he does....... he was a rescue who came to me with NO training 5 months ago.

I actually meant you would be better going to a "normal" obedience class than going for the high end schutzhund classes.

 

[Megibo]

In that case, I think you need to go back to training. He's still young, and if you are asking three times - no, sorry, he is not yet well trained. Doesn't mean he can't become so! But it sounds like you need some help from someone who is actually there and can see how you and he are behaving.

Training doesn't just stop at the age of six months or whenever - every second you spend interacting with your dog is 'training' of one kind or another. That's just dogs for you!

he's fine indoors
i've begun work outdoors, today was very successful. i've found stopping and asking for no reason really helped made him think and pay attention to me. when we saw a loud dog i said leave it and he ignored it and he sat politely as long as i wanted by the roads-and on first time i asked!
we do still go to obedience classes, just not every week routinely. the trainer isn't concerned though, he is a smartie and learning pretty quickly what i want from him

 

[CorvusCorax]

I know five and six year old dogs that have competed to world standard that still need training
Glad to hear the control work is going well and that your trainer is pleased we're also getting there with stopping, sitting, watching (unless he knows I have stashed a chicken wing at the back of his crate )
Re repeating commands - you ask and let him ignore you once, twice, three times, he'll eventually ignore you on the fourth or fifth. He's old enough now, you ask for a sit, you don't get one, you quickly and calmly put his bum on the floor and carry on. Not sit, sit, sit, siiit - sit means sit, bum on the floor, or nothing good will happen

 

[Megibo]

I know five and six year old dogs that have competed to world standard that still need training
Glad to hear the control work is going well and that your trainer is pleased we're also getting there with stopping, sitting, watching (unless he knows I have stashed a chicken wing at the back of his crate )
Re repeating commands - you ask and let him ignore you once, twice, three times, he'll eventually ignore you on the fourth or fifth. He's old enough now, you ask for a sit, you don't get one, you quickly and calmly put his bum on the floor and carry on. Not sit, sit, sit, siiit - sit means sit, bum on the floor, or nothing good will happen

Mm, I spose in truth they need training kept up throughout their lives (imo)
haaha i don't think nico would hear anything i say if he could smell chicken somewhere! unless i have it in a treat bag and then he'll do anything i say before it's barely out of my mouth
yeah re advice on the trainer i did exactly as you said and it's working (i also did something cheesy and took this off 'its me or the dog') when i ask for him to do something and he makes me wait longer than 3 seconds i say ah-ah and remove my attention. then when i ask again he does it first time. this works really well with his lead training, its taking less time for him to go 'ohh..if i heel when she asks our walks are much nicer and i'm allowed to sniff things rather than fight with mum!'

but sometimes i do have to enforce so when by a road i say sit and because we cant mess about when a cars near i do have to touch his bottom and then he'll sit nicely. i have to do that maybe once or twice (seperate occasions) and then he does it when i ask. the same with if i want to heel-i either want him to walk on a long lead without pulling so the lead is slack or walk at my hip so the lead is slack. if he decides he isnt walking at my hip i stop and back up a few steps. it then clicks with him and the walks are enjoyable!

boy thats a lot of waffle...in summary he's listening better so the advice has helped!