Food aggression/my own doing ?

[Horsestudent2022]

Hello !

I am a novice horse owner, learning a lot from YouTube, which has been good and bad. I board my horse and get some help at the boarding stable but I feel like the owners are just overwhelmed with their own horses and the programs they have going on and can only help me sparingly.
So I’ve come here to get some opinions and thoughts.

I have a 12 yo OTTB. He is a lovely horse but has some issues with ground manners. One of his issues has been ear pinning while in his stall. I would say ‘no’ and/or flick his nose when he ‘tried’ for a nip and actually after a while the issue disappeared, so I thought. I think the issue disappeared because my schedule changed and I was able to really only interact with him during the daytime, when he is usually in his paddock. Well recently I had him in his stall because of bad weather and he pinned his ears and lunged at me when I passed by his stall! Very unlike him (the charging part !). So I took his lead rope and had him move to the back of his stall a few times and he settled down. Then last week I think I made a big mistake. And I feel like I broke my horse. I had him in his stall and was training him to back up, but with a whip. I didn’t hit him with the whip, I either tapped him a little or waved it around. Well he wasn’t too fond of that but he did back up when this method was used. When he would back up and wait, I would put a treat down and have him come up and eat it when I asked him to. Then I would have him back up after a while and repeat with calling him over for a treat.

well this evening I was next to his stall and gave him some hay. I had the whip in my hand and tapped a little to back him up. He was occasionally pinning his ears. Then I let him eat and was just standing around in front of his stall talking to some other people. When I turned around to watch him, he aggressively pinned his ears and charged at me again ! I was easily able to back him up because of the whip in my hand, again just tapping the wall and not hitting him with it. However, I noticed while he was eating prior to charging that he kept looking at the whip (dressage whip) in my hand and flinching if I flicked it for whatever reason, such as gesturing when talking. So now I think I have worsened his aggression by using the back up technique with the whip !! I feel like he has some fear of the whip, and me holding it and standing in front of his stall and using it to back him up really pissed him off !

I am now wondering how to undo this ?? Any ideas ??

 

[smolmaus]

Every single reply here is going to tell you to get an experienced instructor in to help you and that is the only correct advice that anyone can give.

I will go a small step further, because I happen to know an R+ equine behaviourist who has been so helpful and it seems like you are trying to use R+ methods, if you give an idea of your area someone might be able to recommend one.

Just a few tiny points from what I have picked up; when you say you back him up and then invite him to come forward to get his reward, what you are rewarding there is coming forward, not the backing up. This is where a marker, like a clicker or a verbal "yes" needs to be used and primed so that he knows what behaviour it is you want. That needs to be consistent. A lot of people use a whip as a cue on the ground which is fine but the way you say he reacted to it when it was outside his stable makes me think he isn't seeing it as a cue but as a potential punishment which isn't what you want if you are looking to use R+ methods.

All that to say, I have also learned a lot from YouTube but you can't often get quality, professional advice there and I think that's what you need. It might only be small bits that's you're missing but they will make all the difference.

Need to edit to add you haven't broken your horse. You're both just trying to communicate and are going across eachother. Both of you just need to learn!

 

[ihatework]

My take on it is a 12yo OTTB will have a considerable amount of ingrained behaviour from his prior life. He will likely have been handled competently but without all the ‘fluff’ that being a single owner horse comes with.

Id personally back off him a bit. Stable is his space, leave him to eat in peace. Tie him up to do stuff with him. Just clear, no nonsense, matter of fact handling.

Regular work, make sure he is sound and comfortable.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Firstly I am not sure if this is a real post…. Couldn't quite believe what I was reading to be honest.
What the two posters have said above is completely correct. OTTBs do not generally have a good relationship with whips, they are whip whip whipped to go faster. Never in a million years would I ever use a whip in a stable even in the manner you used it. Apart from the fact you are in very confined space if anything did happen, you also run the risk of a bad reaction.
My OTTB is not defensive over food with me, he will rear and buck in his stable with excitement when his dinner is coming. However if there is another horse around, even in the next stable, I have no doubt in my mind he will pin his ears and lunge at them or double barrel them. Let him have his space in the stable, if you want to practice doing stuff in the stable, I would use treats as a reward in a positive way.
It is a big change going from racing training to one on one ownership, my boy took months to settle down. It doesn’t sound like you two have bonded yet and I don’t think he trusts you, do plenty of groundwork to help with that. ?

 

[Red-1]

I hate to be *that* person, but before I tried to change the behaviour, I would run some vet checks to make sure he is comfortable. A 12yo OTTB is ripe for injuries etc.

The first two posts are excellent, IMO.

I had a whip shy and defensive horse and I trained him with a whip. The reason being that, if I were in a collecting ring, I wanted him to feel confident where others had whips. A whip is just a stick for communication, and I want my horse to share that view. He became totally whip friendly, even jump rope (skipping) at canter with 2 lunge whips tied together, with the whoosh over his head. He really didn't give two hoots, but that took a year or so and it really isn't necessary to go to that degree.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Vet !
This behaviour is usually caused by pain. And being an ex racehorse he will likely have injuries/issues.

 

[Horsestudent2022]

When he started exhibiting more aggressive behavior. I had vet out. He got scoped and has ulcers for which he is being treated. He is a much calmer horse but the stall issue is worse than when I first got him almost a year ago. I see that I shouldn’t bother him in his stall but how to correct him if he does this behavior while I’m trying to halter him or watering him or something ? I want to do it safely without losing a limb !

 

[AntiPuck]

As others have said, check for pain first - it could be in the body, in the feet, teeth, etc. get all of these things checked. Also pay attention to what things are happening in the stable - are you tacking up in there, for example? Are you feeding in there with other horses nearby? Does he only lunge at you or at all people? etc. try to do some thinking about what the triggers might be.

It is possible to use R+ with food to resolve these sorts of problems, but you really need to start by properly conditioning the click and by teaching the horse to wait for treats rather than to come to you for them or to 'mug' you for them, otherwise you are just reinforcing his aggressive behaviour.

Following a programme like Connection Training or Shawna Karrasch's videos on Youtube would be helpful, so that you get the foundations in place before trying to train a tricky behaviour - and when you do try, you need to start with a barrier between the two of you, so that he can't physically hurt you.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

My old retired boy is not very nice in the stable. He pulls faces and swished his tail if asked to move over, just generally a grump. If you didn't know him he is quite intimidating. He has never bitten or kicked, just looks like he is going to!! He has been the same for nearly 20 years. I completely ignore him and do as little as possible in the stable. Once outside he is a different horse so not sure what the stable thing is all about but I just ignore him.