Food agression :(

Dizzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 September 2008
Messages
2,303
Visit site
How do you deal with food aggression? Basically at the moment when I am out of the stable he has his ears forward, as soon as I open the door and place the food in he has his ears back and will snap and snake his head and throw in the odd leap/lunge. If I stand too close to the door whilst he is eating I also get a warning. As soon as dinner is over he’s as happy as larry again.

What can I do to make eating a happier experience for the both of us?

I have to confess there was an incident about 10 days ago where I fed him and had to remove his feed after a couple of mouthfuls and it’s got worse since then, so to be honest I can see his reasoning by making sure I leave the bucket and then stay away. How can I help to build his trust up in me that I am not going to take his dinner?

He’s not too bad with the haynet although he was getting crabby with me last night as it took a while to tie it up and he stressed if I was between him and the net (silly b*gger shouldn’t have moved then!). Any ideas?
 

janet68

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 July 2009
Messages
389
Visit site
None whatsoever mine is very food aggressive he gives full on massive kicks the whole time he eating(ok with haylage) but this is something he has always done and never had reason too. I know never to go in stable while eating but forgot to tell my friend who was feeding 1 morning for me and she put bucket in then walked in to put net up, i got a call straight away telling me he had kicked her(she was ok luckily). He is 16.3 and could do a lot of damage. will follow this post to see if anybody comes up with any good ideas
 

MagicMelon

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 November 2004
Messages
16,174
Location
North East Scotland
Visit site
I had a 3yo a few years ago who was very agressive over his feed at first. Basically, if he made any faces or any nastiness on my way over to give him his feed then Id stop walking and wait until his ears were the right way again! Id keep doing this on the way to give him his feed so he learnt if he was nice, he got his feed quicker!! Once with him, I would stand beside the bucket for a few seconds, slowly increasing this. So he simply had to get used to me being there. After a couple of months of this, he seemed to accept it and from then on I could do anything round him! I could change his rugs etc. whilst he was being fed no problem.
 

Dizzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 September 2008
Messages
2,303
Visit site
Thing is he is nice as pie right up until the bucket is on the floor then as soon as I let go if I hang around I get snapped at. I might start then just working my way closer, so start off with standing this side of the door, then door open, then next to him. Thing is I want to get him a snack ball so I can give him a hard feed to eat though out the night but obviously I don’t want to give him something like that if we still have a food aggression issue.
 

chestnut cob

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 November 2004
Messages
14,996
Location
Shropshire
community.webshots.com
Mine can be vile about food. I do quite a bit of general "manners" exercises with him anyway so that he knows he can't come into my space, can't barge me, generally can't be rude so I'd recommend that if you don't already. For a while I used to tie mine up while I was putting feed in - as soon as he has a headcollar on in the stable, he's a donkey. I know why mine is aggressive around food (something that happened over a few weeks a few years ago, before I got him) but he needed to learn that a) it isn't acceptable to threaten me over food, and b) that I am not going to take his food away.

Definitely put a headcollar on him and tie up in stable to start with, and don't go in with his feed until you've done this. I started off feeding outside the stable (no one jump on me) because it was easier to deal with. Have him tied up, make sure than he respects your space the rest of the time and when you give him feed, don't give it to him if he makes faces or lunges/barges at you. I had to really stand up to my horse because he'd got so used to "winning" with his threatening behaviour. If he really made faces and made to kick out, I took the food away. When he stands nicely, which he does now, then I give feed.

Once he was doing this nicely, I went back to feeding in the stable. Tie up, put feed down and when he is standing nicely, unclip lead rope. Even when he's tied up, if he makes faces at you then make him walk back out of your space. He will eventually learn that making faces just means he doesn't get his dinner.

It seemed to take a while then suddenly clicked with my horse. I just had to be consistent about it - no dinner while you're making faces. I tell him "no" firmly as well and make faces of my own! It's taken ages but last week, for the first time, I was able to walk into stable to put on over reach boots while he was eating without him even really noticing, let alone trying to savage me.

It can be dealt with, just takes consistency and firmness. I personally don't think it's a trust thing, or at least with mine it isn't. My horse has learnt that he gets his dinner quicker by being a bully and making faces. He had to unlearn that and learn that by being *nice* he got his dinner, and making faces and nipping wouldn't be tolerated.
 

legaldancer

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 November 2008
Messages
1,522
Visit site
To be honest, I'd just give him his food & leave him to it. I've had two that were agressive at feed time & one was as nice as pie the rest of the time. I didn't fiddle with rugs until they'd finished & moved onto their hay (which I always tied up beforehand).

Both were ex-racehorses, but leaving them alone during feedtime was the best policy - why make it more stressful for both of you?
 

jhoward

Demon exorcist...
Joined
17 July 2007
Messages
15,261
Location
Devon
Visit site
ive got a mare that suffers this, she used to kick lunge, bite and strike. she still not toally safe to be around but so long as i dont touch her if im mucking out etc she will tollerate me.,

i started off by only giving small amounts of food, and standing outside, then progressing, to door open, stood by her etc.

id personally break his dinner up into a few mouth fulls, and stand there, if he does come at you at any point, i sharp NO so he is learning it is not acceptable,

food aggression is the one thing where i would never remove the food or hit the horse, as there is normally an underlying reason for it.
 

Parkranger

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 May 2006
Messages
10,546
Visit site
I agree - let him get on with it! Ty would lunge at me and barge at feed time but he gets a stern 'back' and will walk to the back of his stable and wait now. I don't agree with taking food off them again once you've given it to them......different with dogs, but then that's just my opinion.
 

vieshot

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 March 2007
Messages
2,049
Visit site
If it were one of mine I would tie them on tight with the bucket on the stable door( you know one of the hanging ones.) so they can eat but cant turn around. Then id groom them. Any kicking would result in a bloody hard smack to the point where they thought if they did it again they would die. Id do this daily, every feed until I could do it in the stable, untied etc.
 

Parkranger

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 May 2006
Messages
10,546
Visit site
Sorry but how does hitting a horse or taunting one that has obviously had some kind of trauma help? I'm all for a wallop when they deserve it, but horses rarely have issues like this without a reason!
 

vieshot

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 March 2007
Messages
2,049
Visit site
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but how does hitting a horse or taunting one that has obviously had some kind of trauma help? I'm all for a wallop when they deserve it, but horses rarely have issues like this without a reason!

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I dont see ANY excuse to kick/bite. Its bad manners and its bloody dangerous!
 

jhoward

Demon exorcist...
Joined
17 July 2007
Messages
15,261
Location
Devon
Visit site
i disagree my mares issues stem from her being staved as a baby then beaten, then let to get away with dominating people, id honestly love to see some body give her even a gental slap cause i can assure you she would body slam you against a wall before kickign ten bales of poop out of you.

the fact she is possesive about her food really isnt her fault.

and lets be fair if somebody kept poking and prodding me whilst i was eating id get pretty fed up of it!
 

Parkranger

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 May 2006
Messages
10,546
Visit site
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but how does hitting a horse or taunting one that has obviously had some kind of trauma help? I'm all for a wallop when they deserve it, but horses rarely have issues like this without a reason!

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I dont see ANY excuse to kick/bite. Its bad manners and its bloody dangerous!

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely there's another way around it though? I haven't had to deal with agression to that degree, but I tried shouting and smacking Ty when he played up and he'd just rear higher! It's as if he was goading me for a fight
grin.gif
 

Ali2

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 April 2007
Messages
1,706
Location
Cheshire
Visit site
We had a horse who was awful with food. He had to spend a long period on box rest and so we started doing some clicker training with him just to give him something to think about. I was quite wary of doing it at first because he was very aggressive with his meals and would mug us if we had stuff in our pockets. However, after a few sessions of clicker training he developed a new found respect around food and was a different horse. Might be worth a go.
 
D

Donkeymad

Guest
Really can't agree with this as a way to deal with it.

I have a mare who was terribly aggressive near food. not once has she been reprimanded, but she is now fine for me to do anything while she is eating, even to letting me take it away. I try not to bother her when eating, but sometimes you may find you need to, so she now has learnt, with kindness, to let me do things.
 

devilwoman

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 August 2009
Messages
1,804
Location
Sat Day Dreaming .....
Visit site
My filly is aggressive with her feed, stems from growing up in a herd of about 20 and having to fight for her food until she was 18 months old, now i have to almost throw her bucket at her as she lunges towards it then swings round and double barrells, once she has started eating i can slowly approach her, but that has only come from spending time getting closer and closer to her each time I feed her- don't think i'll ever be able to just put her bucket down and stand there though - i'm sure the double barrell business is something she's always going to do.
 

YorksG

Over the hill and far awa
Joined
14 September 2006
Messages
16,142
Location
West Yorkshire
Visit site
We had a mare, who had been kept short of food and was awful even with hay. When we got her she was at livery in a system with feed mangers and hay containers with a metal grid above the wll and a walkway behind that, so you could be near the food, but safely behind the wire. We put the food in and stood in the passage way, until she got used to it. She got so good about food that she would in later years bring us the first mouthful of hay for the first week they were in at night in winter. She was also very food intolerant and we think that this had an impact on her agression with food, so may be worth a look at.
 

chestnut cob

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 November 2004
Messages
14,996
Location
Shropshire
community.webshots.com
I always used to leave mine to it but then the faces and threatening to kick started to be shown when someone went in to the stable outside of feeding time - YO changing a rug for example. He also started threatening to kick when being caught because he was being "rewarded" in stable by being given food and left alone.

I don't believe in hassling horses while they're eating and I haven't dealt with it so that I can bug him, but so that my horse is safe in the stable and to catch. FUnnily enough, all of the catching issues (can be a sod to catch) have gone away now I've dealt with his food issues. I never bother him, bar the one time I mentioned in my first reply, when he's eating, but I won't tolerate a 17hh horse turning his bum on me in the stable when I had food and threatening to kick.
 

Kallibear

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 July 2008
Messages
4,618
Location
Edinburgh
Visit site
Hows your relationship with your horse in other aspects? Honestly? Food agression is a sign of dominance. My horses would NEVER consider challanging me over their dinners because I'M in charge, not them.

I used to own a stanadrdbred who had food issues. He was a dominated sod anyways and was food agressive towards anyone who he though came below him in the pecking order. He never so much as flicked an ear back at me or his sharer, as he knew where he stood, but would pull faces and threaten to kick others. I never needed to make a fuss about feeding - my place as boss was undisputed from just daily handling.

I also have a mare who is incredibaley food aggressive to other horses and will attack any horse lower than her in the pecking order who so much as dares to look at her feed! She however has absolutly no misunderstanding as to where she stands with humans (all humans) and doesn't so much as flick an ear back at people.

First I would sort out handling and who's in charge with ground work. Moving of feet, staying out of personal spaces, that kind of thing. General manners. I wouldn't make the feeding time a particular issue yet, as tackling it head on without the background basics could make it worse.

Then I'd start by having in tied up somewhere safe outside. I'd have his feed split into multiple smaller feeds (i.e 6), close by but out of sight, and I'd make sure he's not hungry (i.e had time to stuff his face in the field)

Making sure he has a pile of hay (on the ground, not in a net - it's much easier for him to eat) I'd have him standing quietly being groomed and munching his hay. Once he's happy and relaxed I'd go and get a bucket, drop it in front of him without a fuss, ignoring him completely (making him 'wait' will prob make him more stressed) then continue to groom him. Ignore grumpy faces and threats and only reprimand if he's intentionally aiming to hurt. I'd interupt him occasionally to give him a carrot/apple/polo (i.e something even nicer than his dinner) and that would be the only time I directly focus on him.

Once he's finished, and relaxed back to eating hay, I'd go and get another bucket and repeat until all the buckets are finished.

If time is short he could have the feeds at different times - small feed when he comes in, small feed as he's tied up to tacked up, small feed noce he's finsihed work, small feed whilst he's getting his rug on, small feed once he's in his stable. Just make sure it's only tiny bit before he works (i.e handful!) and that your busy faffing quietly around him whilst he eats.

Hopefully from that he'll learn that feeding isn't in short supply, it doesn't need to be a stressed drama and being 'interupted' is actually really rewarding.


I absoultly agree that smacking and punishing him whilst eating won't work. It'll just make him more defensive and aggressive, and make him stress about his feed even more. Yes, the dominance issue needs to be resolved, but whilst he's eating is not the time to be doing it.
 

Dizzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 September 2008
Messages
2,303
Visit site
[ QUOTE ]

Both were ex-racehorses, but leaving them alone during feedtime was the best policy - why make it more stressful for both of you?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's an ex-racer too. Oddly enough I took him his feed yesterday and he stood whilst I opened the door and popped his nose in the bucket to eat whilst I put it on the floor, stepped back and watched without giving me any jip!

Regarding food aggression with other horses, it varies. I have seen him lunge and kick at some horses in the field if they come near him, me or his hay. But then likewise I have seen him share a bucket of hard feed with another horse without even a swish of the tail.

As for hitting my horse, nope, he’s not the sort of horse that is going to respect that, some horses yes a sharp tap on the shoulder will remind them, if I do that with him I’d ruin our whole relationship.

I will try some ground work with him, never thought to equate it back to that to be honest, I’ve been advised to do carrot stretches with him so that might be a good time to start.
 
Top