Food help for attempting to get cob super fit

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Devonshiredumpling

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Hi all, perhaps you can help....
My 16 hh hw drumcob is 7 yrs old and never really got up to super fitness due to his age and size, he did start to get quite fit and whizzy towards the end of last hunting season.
He's has saddle issues and needed 6 weeks off and is now fully back into work looking very soft and foal like, almost a bit empty but good weight... not bloated or fat.
He's on short grazing 24/7 its grazed down and keeps my 3 all a nice weight, i have loads more grass but in my opinion its best to keep them a nice weight.
The problem is he is now being asked to be worked, hes doing 1.5 hours hacking per day, hes sluggish and gets very hot and sweaty, hes basically unfit!
the hacks are mainly good walking, pushing him on a bit in trot and maybe one canter... hes struggling to keep up with the 14hh hw cob pony and 12hh dartmoor, who are on the same grazing and totally mental, but have good muscle memory.
Would you recommend he has some hard feed to give him some slow release energy? So he has something to work on, or should he be getting enough energy from the grass?
Any advise welcome including on his exercise regime, i want him super fit this season (hes masters horse)
Also he has access to a salt lick and attacks that daily x
 
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How long has he been back in work? If he's really unfit, pushing a big heavy horse to do 1.5hrs work is going to be tough on him. If he's done the early conditioning work, I'd be doing fewer miles, but higher intensity to increase his aerobic fitness.
 
Really the same place as Fatty .
I always make sure he gets the winter version of a high quality balancer and a small about of linseed and oats daily to ensure he has enough protein he's been much happier and easier to keep fit since I started this .
 
He's been back in work for about 4 weeks, started off just walking, he just looks rubbish to be honest, lost all his topline and looks very baby like, due to him being soft I guess... would you recommend additional food or think he should be able to get enough from his grazing? I was always on the understanding if he is maintaining a good weight then he should be able to get enough from his food? You can feel his ribs, but cant see them. 1.5 hours is probably about 4 miles, and we live in hilly Devon, so perhaps do 30 mins? For now..
 
Devonshiredumpling said:
He's been back in work for about 4 weeks, started off just walking, he just looks rubbish to be honest, lost all his topline and looks very baby like, due to him being soft I guess... would you recommend additional food or think he should be able to get enough from his grazing? I was always on the understanding if he is maintaining a good weight then he should be able to get enough from his food? You can feel his ribs, but cant see them. 1.5 hours is probably about 4 miles, and we live in hilly Devon, so perhaps do 30 mins? For now..
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He may need a little extra, even if he's a good weight, purely because its hard work being that big and heavy, especially when unfit. My big horse just has a good quality balancer (Equimins Advance Complete) to ensure his nutritional needs are met, in addition to grazing.
My folks are from Devon, and if your bit is as hilly as theirs, I can see why your boy may be struggling! I'd be inclined to ease off the long hacks, and do a few more weeks of shorter, purposeful marches, until he starts to look/feel a bit fitter
 
Auslander said:
He may need a little extra, even if he's a good weight, purely because its hard work being that big and heavy, especially when unfit. My big horse just has a good quality balancer (Equimins Advance Complete) to ensure his nutritional needs are met, in addition to grazing.
My folks are from Devon, and if your bit is as hilly as theirs, I can see why your boy may be struggling! I'd be inclined to ease off the long hacks, and do a few more weeks of shorter, purposeful marches, until he starts to look/feel a bit fitter
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Thankyou, i hate feeding un necessarily but just felt like he needed something... we are so steep here, no matter which direction we go in, the poor boy has to hail his 750kg arse up a bit hill to get home, now hes 7 I really want him to be super fit this year, he has a long season ahead of him and although we aren't a fast pack, only go around a few fields, its still 4-6 hours under saddle every saturday for 6 months,, he does manage all day really well, and although he will never keep up with the TB's he does pull like a tractor all day, it just seems a bit easier in winter as hes fed adlib good quality forage x
 
Devonshiredumpling said:
He's been back in work for about 4 weeks, started off just walking, he just looks rubbish to be honest, lost all his topline and looks very baby like, due to him being soft I guess... would you recommend additional food or think he should be able to get enough from his grazing? I was always on the understanding if he is maintaining a good weight then he should be able to get enough from his food? You can feel his ribs, but cant see them. 1.5 hours is probably about 4 miles, and we live in hilly Devon, so perhaps do 30 mins? For now..
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11/2 hours would be 6 miles in walk, they walk at about 4 miles per hour if walking properly, I would probably look to doing alternate days shorter ride/ longer ride 6 days a week so he can build up and recover, if he has no topline he needs something to help build that alongside correct work, big horses take longer to get a decent core fitness if you get it right now it should improve year on year, I wouldn't be cantering until he is far fitter than he is now, most hunters coming back after the summer break will barely have cantered before they go cubbing.
From my old days looking after hunters they did 2 months of walking and trotting then once cubbing started the cantering would increase along with the trot work so by opening meet they were as fit as they could be without the real galloping they get hunting, they would still look a little round which meant their condition stayed on easily through the season as long as they ate well, keeping a hunter fit and looking good the whole season starts with the work done late summer.
 
be positive said:
11/2 hours would be 6 miles in walk, they walk at about 4 miles per hour if walking properly, I would probably look to doing alternate days shorter ride/ longer ride 6 days a week so he can build up and recover, if he has no topline he needs something to help build that alongside correct work, big horses take longer to get a decent core fitness if you get it right now it should improve year on year, I wouldn't be cantering until he is far fitter than he is now, most hunters coming back after the summer break will barely have cantered before they go cubbing.
From my old days looking after hunters they did 2 months of walking and trotting then once cubbing started the cantering would increase along with the trot work so by opening meet they were as fit as they could be without the real galloping they get hunting, they would still look a little round which meant their condition stayed on easily through the season as long as they ate well, keeping a hunter fit and looking good the whole season starts with the work done late summer.
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Thanks, this is good advice, none of mine run up light at the end of the season, this is my problem going into summer, and the reason I have 7 acres of winter turnout growing and they are on just 2 acres or tight grazing... he does gain more fitness as do all my horses throughout the season and I get all of that.. I think we have probably been a bit too enthusiastic with this whole getting him fit malarkey and it doesnt help that he exercises with a 10 yr old and 17 yr old who have good muscle memory. I am taking heed, thankyou!
 
If hes on restricted grazing and working quite hard then I would think he needs something. Mines smaller at only 14.3hh but is working quite hard for him at the moment. He gets a token feed of Topspec Ulsakind cubes (becuase he came with stomach issues and I had some left) and a big scoop of Thunderbrooks chaff. He also gets 40gms of salt, progressive earth balancer, and linseed. He looks pretty good! Still needs more muscle but hes changed dramatically in the last 6 weeks, so this will come with time.

When the Ulsakind cubes run out he will go onto oats, which would have been my first choice if I hadnt had a bin full of the cubes left :)
 
I also second feeding salts.

I was talking to a feed specialist from D&H at a show earlier on in the year as my mare would get very hot, sweaty and fatigued after not necessarily a long ride. She recommended to feed electrolytes to replace the minerals lost from sweating. She said a horse with low mineral levels will feel like they are working with a hangover. I feed two tablespoons of salt with her feed and she doesn't feel half as bad as she did at the beginning of the year. She is also just fed D&H balancer and a handful of chaff.
 
I have a big heavy and he didn't stop growing until he was 8/9. We did and still do lots and lots of walking taking in the big hills . He is fed hay all year round and has a small feed with a balancer . He can easily cope with 10miles in under 2 hrs.
 
I find keeping my heavy ridden horses clipped all year round, with short manes so they don't over heat underneath and legs off makes a huge difference in their stamina. No difference to us running in an overcoat or shorts and Tshirt really, we know which is more comfortable.

They do a lot of walking up hills, I think it is harder work to walk on the bridle and up through the shoulder, than it is to trot up hills. Plus heavier horses are not really built to hammer roads in trot. The forces through the forelimb are huge, they break for fun so I try to avoid helping them on their way to unsoundness.

Feed is good quality haylage and/or grazing (limited) with a good quality balancer and linseed. I really rate dodson and horrell suregrow, it is useful for all horses at all ends of the spectrum regardless of it being pitched at breeding and youngstock. I would also think about running a blood if I had a horse that was being fed and cared for properly but was showing signs of not thriving. It is so easy to throw money at the horse in terms of various feeds and supplements with no real improvement. You might as well know early on if there is any underlying problems.
 
you cant feed a horse fit. you need to work it.

But by doing things slowly and steadily. How would you feel if someone dragged you fat and unfit from your bed and made you do things for a couple of hours. exhausted and p*ssed off.

Whats happened to good old fashioned conditioning work these days. People seem to want to go from zero to full speed in no time at all. No wonder there are so many broken horses about.

My horse always starts off his fittening work with hacking in walk building up from 30 mins to an hour over a period of 4 weeks and I include some long reining so he works without me on his back and some pole work from the ground too. Wouldn't even think of trot work until I'd done the basics. And yes I make him march out, not necessarily in a frame but taking the bridle forward and asking him to step under. Hills are great if you have them but again introduce carefully and slowly. And then I start some lunging and schooling sessions in walk and trot and gradually bring in canter but not before week 6-7.

Thing is getting a horse fit, especially the bigger framed types, is an every day thing, not once or twice a week. So little and often is best. If it helps do something twice a day once he's fitter.

And you feed for the work you've done not the work you will be doing. I'm not a big fan of balancers because of all the cr*p in them, but a good vit and min supplement in a handful of sugar free chop should be sufficient at this stage. Once he's doing more work and can convert the calories rather than fat store, then you can have a look at slow release energy feeds. I would point you at St Hippolyte feeds, but they are a favourite of mine and are soya free which is rare these days. You'd be amazed at how many horses are soya intolerant.

I agree with AA too, worth a blood test to double check if things don't improve with a basic fitness plan and yes, shave his hair off. He'll thank you for that for sure. I clip mine all the year round and it helps enormously.
 
I just wanted to come back to this thread as I was thinking about it today after my lesson. Mines been in work for a couple of months now after some time off so no baseline of fitness to work from. We started off doing 10 mins on the long reins twice a week and built it up. He works between 3 and 5 times a week. Hes been in that level of work for about a month.

Last night we took him out for some road work and he did 5.5miles mainly trotting with some walking and the odd canter pulling a carriage. He was hot and tired when he came back, but not exhausted and would have done it all again if asked to. Today he worked in the school for 40 mins, about a 70/30 mix of trot and walk, lots of work on bending and working into the bridle, again in harness and he didnt so much as break a sweat. Hes muscling up all over and looks good. He clearly feels good as well.

I think if you arent seeing an improvement in yours after you look at feeding then it might be worth a blood test to see if theres something amiss. Big horses do take time to get fit and take more work to keep fit, but you'd expect him to be picking up
 
AdorableAlice said:
I find keeping my heavy ridden horses clipped all year round, with short manes so they don't over heat underneath and legs off makes a huge difference in their stamina. No difference to us running in an overcoat or shorts and Tshirt really, we know which is more comfortable.
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Mines gone from hairy traditional to bald. They just get so hot and uncomfortable otherwise.
 
KautoStar1 said:
you cant feed a horse fit. you need to work it.

But by doing things slowly and steadily. How would you feel if someone dragged you fat and unfit from your bed and made you do things for a couple of hours. exhausted and p*ssed off.

Whats happened to good old fashioned conditioning work these days. People seem to want to go from zero to full speed in no time at all. No wonder there are so many broken horses about.

My horse always starts off his fittening work with hacking in walk building up from 30 mins to an hour over a period of 4 weeks and I include some long reining so he works without me on his back and some pole work from the ground too. Wouldn't even think of trot work until I'd done the basics. And yes I make him march out, not necessarily in a frame but taking the bridle forward and asking him to step under. Hills are great if you have them but again introduce carefully and slowly. And then I start some lunging and schooling sessions in walk and trot and gradually bring in canter but not before week 6-7.

Thing is getting a horse fit, especially the bigger framed types, is an every day thing, not once or twice a week. So little and often is best. If it helps do something twice a day once he's fitter.

And you feed for the work you've done not the work you will be doing. I'm not a big fan of balancers because of all the cr*p in them, but a good vit and min supplement in a handful of sugar free chop should be sufficient at this stage. Once he's doing more work and can convert the calories rather than fat store, then you can have a look at slow release energy feeds. I would point you at St Hippolyte feeds, but they are a favourite of mine and are soya free which is rare these days. You'd be amazed at how many horses are soya intolerant.

I agree with AA too, worth a blood test to double check if things don't improve with a basic fitness plan and yes, shave his hair off. He'll thank you for that for sure. I clip mine all the year round and it helps enormously.
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This!

I can't believe that someone thinks that a horse should be able to work for 1.5 hrs, at all speeds, after 4 weeks fittening work! No wonder he has no stamina.
 
I would wonder why after only 6 weeks off not on box rest he has lost so much muscle and looks so soft, mine has never lost it that quick.
 
ester said:
I would wonder why after only 6 weeks off not on box rest he has lost so much muscle and looks so soft, mine has never lost it that quick.
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My ID lets down quickly enough, even on field rest. Its because he doesn't move around the field much, just eats and moves as little as needed LOL
 
Franks a welsh cob, there was a reason he had a track up the spring he was off work. When he had to stay at the vets they commented that he didn't come up for air.

But - he had 8 weeks off last summer at 23 and barely dropped off.

I guess I'm just wondering that while I totally agree with your post it isn't that long a break to have off and just then whether this horse has had that sort of time off before, whether he has previously been like this after, and given his type and age with the description given of him getting very hot and sweaty whether he might be struggling with pssm or something instead of just not being fit.
 
I've also found these types of horses very rarely get properly fit. I don't know why, it's like they hold something back for themselves.

Mine loves water and I am lucky enough to have a water treadmill nearby and have used that for resistance training and that certainly helps when it comes to upping the pace for canter work. If you have a safe stream nearby walk up and down that.
 
I have a hw that I do endurance on, to be super fit it takes a good 6 months. At 4 wks from holiday/no work, I would only just be touching on the 1.5hr mark, but would be 70/30 walk/Trot.
For me with my heavy to gain stamina is the trot work, long trots when I mean long we will do miles, starting with short bursts. Mix hill work with walking & trotting. As walking can be so much harder than blasting up in trot.
I feed when in constant work, but have found once in decent work when fit you do need plenty not just a handful of chaff.
These horses have big muscle that use up lots of energy.
 
xTrooperx said:
I have a hw that I do endurance on, to be super fit it takes a good 6 months. At 4 wks from holiday/no work, I would only just be touching on the 1.5hr mark, but would be 70/30 walk/Trot.
For me with my heavy to gain stamina is the trot work, long trots when I mean long we will do miles, starting with short bursts. Mix hill work with walking & trotting. As walking can be so much harder than blasting up in trot.
I feed when in constant work, but have found once in decent work when fit you do need plenty not just a handful of chaff.
These horses have big muscle that use up lots of energy.
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I would love to see a picture of him in full work fitness, I bet he is smart.
 
AdorableAlice said:
I would love to see a picture of him in full work fitness, I bet he is smart.
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Will have to work out how to put on my profile, is it still through photo thingy? Been years since I used that.

We get mixed views/comments some are very positive and comment about not seeing cobs fit/working condition often and have others seem to think she was starved and needs weight on lol.

Vets (as vet check at every ride before & after) have always seemed happy with how she is.
 
You can upload photos to your profile but it's easier to use Facebook/Imgur etc right click and copy the picture URL then paste here. If you add
it will show up :)
 
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