For the hoof experts... Calling Oberon, Cptrayes, twostroke etc..! :)

ImmyS

ImmyS

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Opinions please -

Ex racers front hooves after first barefoot trim. The farrier has to cut some areas of frog and heel due to disease but he was very subtle with what he did. I'm still very much learning so need to guys to tell me more about what's going on - new growth angle, sole concavity, frog quality etc.. I've been trawling rough the Rockley blog to help me out!

Thank you very much!..

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Off side fore -

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Near side fore -

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Tea and biscuits for your help! x
 
The quality of the hoof wall, the angle, the multiple event lines all point to a horse that has been struggling for a long time. Probably, but not always diet.

The sole is thin and flat which brings with it a risk of bruising the pedal bone. This can be looked after in the short term with the use of well fitting and padded boots. Long term a new better hoof needs to be grown, which is may mean a diet overhaul. What works for one won't work for another.

As is so often the case the caudal foot is weak, this is almost endemic in the UK. This can be improved with 'gym'. Lots of low level, comfortable footsteps. Boots can really help. I'd also use something very mild to help with the thrush. Field paste or manuka honey etc etc. None of the over the counter products, they are too harsh, no bleach either. Not necessary.
 
Thank you for your reply Lucy -

Her diet wasn't barefoot friendly all through the winter due to having various feed to try and keep the weight on her. For a about 2months now she has been on a barefoot diet - molasses free chaff, speedibeet, linseed, hoof supp and general supp.

She is currently being walked out in hand every day on the roads for about 15 mins and she is totally sound in the field and on roads. She is also doing a couple of longer hacks in boots which she seems very comfortable doing.

The thrush is being treated with red horse field paste.
 
I had a battle with thrush last year. I used the Red Horse products and this http://ntdry.co.uk/. The change in the hooves since getting rid of the thrush, which had been a long term problem,is remarkable. Your farrier is trying to help with judicious frog trimming,but the problem tends to be deep in the crevices.
You could also consider ditching the hoof supplement and general supplement in favor of a targeted supplement http://forageplus.co.uk/shop/. All this combined with your already sensible exercise program should lead to improvement.
 
abitodd said:
I had a battle with thrush last year. I used the Red Horse products and this http://ntdry.co.uk/. The change in the hooves since getting rid of the thrush, which had been a long term problem,is remarkable. Your farrier is trying to help with judicious frog trimming,but the problem tends to be deep in the crevices.
You could also consider ditching the hoof supplement and general supplement in favor of a targeted supplement http://forageplus.co.uk/shop/. All this combined with your already sensible exercise program should lead to improvement.
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Thank you for the reply, we are using red horse field paste atm. She does have deep crevices in the frog so I think that is where the problem lies!
 
Thanks for replies - anymore comments on the actual structure of her hooves? The thrush is being treated and is under control.
 
I agree with LucyPriory. The soles appear very thin, so do be careful where you go without boots until they're a bit better.

Keep an eye on the healing angle (the very steep portion at the top of the hoof). If you can see this growing down, then you're on the right track. If a few months pass and the steep angle is still only a centimetre or so long, then you may need to have another look at the diet, as it indicates that something is preventing the horse from growing in a well connected hoof wall.

Although I agree that the caudal hoof is weak, for an ex-racer I don't actually think it's THAT weak, and I expect you'll see some nice improvements there. Imo the main worry is those soles.

Out of interest, which hoof and general supplement are you using? If you're using one of the recommended supplements for hoof health then you may find the general supplement is not needed/advised.

Keep up the good work :).
 
Thank you for your detailed reply TwoStroke. This may sound stupid but how can you actually tell the thickness of the sole and how will I be able to tell if they are becoming thicker? I know they are thin right now and so I am very careful with where she walks barefoot atm as she is sensitive on stones. Thanks again.
 
ImmyS said:
Thank you for your detailed reply TwoStroke. This may sound stupid but how can you actually tell the thickness of the sole and how will I be able to tell if they are becoming thicker? I know they are thin right now and so I am very careful with where she walks barefoot atm as she is sensitive on stones. Thanks again.
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Most people use the collateral groove depth as the primary method of assessing sole thickness. So you measure the height from the bottom of the collateral groove (the groove running down each side of the frog) to the height of the sole plane at the side of the foot (can be tricky to judge to start with). It should be about 3/4 of an inch. This picture by Pete Ramey is quite useful:
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At the moment your horse's foot looks like the right side of that pic - when the sole is thicker and the wall better connected, it should look like the left.

If you look at the curve of the sole plane of your horse's feet, you can see that the sole looks flat... almost convex - this is typical of a horse with very thin soles. As sole depth increases, the foot will become more concave (growing in a well connected hoof wall will help greatly with this).

Hope that makes some kind of sense!
 
Sorry to hijack thread op, but wanted to ask... Bens soles have become quite flat of late. Over winter he was on hifi, speedie beet and linseed meal, he is now on poorer quality grass, hay and a small handful of fibre with a mag supplement... He was trimmed yesterday and sole left on the fronts for support (the hinds are not so bad). He is noticeably uncomfortable on the bridleways but fine on the road, so intend to stick to roadwork for a while. What's the best way to rectify this flat sole and get it back to how it was? Continued roadwork?
 
Queenbee said:
Sorry to hijack thread op, but wanted to ask... Bens soles have become quite flat of late. Over winter he was on hifi, speedie beet and linseed meal, he is now on poorer quality grass, hay and a small handful of fibre with a mag supplement... He was trimmed yesterday and sole left on the fronts for support (the hinds are not so bad). He is noticeably uncomfortable on the bridleways but fine on the road, so intend to stick to roadwork for a while. What's the best way to rectify this flat sole and get it back to how it was? Continued roadwork?
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What do you mean 'sole left on for support?' It's not often sole needs touching at all so I'm naturally curious.

Sole is a product of appropriate diet, which may mean monitoring/managing grass intake (download lami app), comfortable footsteps and no metabolic disease. If thin soles don't improve on a good diet metabolic disease may be at the root.
 
LucyPriory said:
What do you mean 'sole left on for support?' It's not often sole needs touching at all so I'm naturally curious.

Sole is a product of appropriate diet, which may mean monitoring/managing grass intake (download lami app), comfortable footsteps and no metabolic disease. If thin soles don't improve on a good diet metabolic disease may be at the root.
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Well, Ben is pretty much self trimming when I work and I've had the same farrier for 11 years. He is excellent at shoeing and bf, but notoriously unreliable and really bad at replying to messages etc.

Anyhows, whist ridden he was fine, pretty good hooves, he had a couple of months off in the winter and although there was no extreme growth there was enough to cause a noticeable flare on the outside of both fronts. I called my farrier... And the loveable but unreliable twonk didn't get back to me, so I decided to take him out to at least wear his feet down...

I must admit that I'm not the best at paying attention to the soles, or even picking hooves out, generally when I bring Ben in I see the compact mud being flung out so rarely physically pick his feet out. About a fortnight ago I picked his feet up and noticed they were flatter than normal. Now I'd already been on the case to my farrier again, because I needed them prettied up for a show, he'd responded that he would ring me with a time... He never did, I'd had More than enough of this, I'd put up with it in varying degrees over the years and so called to my YO's farrier who I'd spoken to in the past regarding his methods and liked his philosophy. He agreed to take my boy on.

When I got to this new chaps yard I specially mentioned my observations and asked his opinion and (i suppose sole was completely the wrong word:o) he told me that yes, they were flat so he had left them longer so he had more support from the hoof wall, that we could consider fronts, boots, or in the interim a topical solution to harden the hooves.

I'm pretty sure that this period when my farrier who hates being a farrier and as I said is notorious despite being an excellent farrier when he gets to his client, anyway the period he was really hard to get hold of and Ben was a bit splayed and developed a flare, I'm sure that has in some way contributed because he has alway had excellent hooves.

Now in general for the future, I am not discounting shoes as I want to do a lot of jumping on grass and he ain't the best on grass:rolleyes: he slipped the other day twice on the lunge:rolleyes:, but that doesn't mean I want to ignore want is going on with the hooves.

Sorry lp, I really didn't explain that well to begin with and it's probably still clear as mud!
 
Lp, the only thing I'd add is that he has done a lot less hacking per week than usual, perhaps this may be a factor.
 
LucyPriory said:
post photos?
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Can do, will do on Saturday... Am off to show tomorrow and back Thursday night then with my mum in hospital on Friday but will try and post some on Saturday... On the whole, his feet are pretty sturdy, backs look good, but fronts are definitely flatter than they used to be. Will post pics on Saturday as I really want to get these back to how they were.
 
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