BBH
Well-Known Member
A general question really, I bought a youngster who has SJ breeding and who has proved very difficult and am keen to avoid similar problems. So as the thread title really. Any help appreciated.
For trainability are there any blood lines you would avoid.
- Thread starter BBH
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Rollin
Well-Known Member
What had your youngster done before? I personally believe that nurture is more important than nature.
I believe horses bring their baggage with them, every horse I have bought already broken has had a quirk of some sort. For example napping when asked to leave the yard alone but I have managed to gain their confidence.
Our Highland can be bargey and had to learn some manners but he is a super riding pony and bomb proof so useful for training youngsters.
The horses I have bought with little handling have been very trusting and easy. The young horses have come directly from breeders the philosophy of the person doing the breeding is as important as the horse.
I do have a wonderful John Lyons trainer in France who gets young horses off to a good start and has just backed my newest purchase. If you google John Lyons in USA you will see what his students have to learn.
I believe horses bring their baggage with them, every horse I have bought already broken has had a quirk of some sort. For example napping when asked to leave the yard alone but I have managed to gain their confidence.
Our Highland can be bargey and had to learn some manners but he is a super riding pony and bomb proof so useful for training youngsters.
The horses I have bought with little handling have been very trusting and easy. The young horses have come directly from breeders the philosophy of the person doing the breeding is as important as the horse.
I do have a wonderful John Lyons trainer in France who gets young horses off to a good start and has just backed my newest purchase. If you google John Lyons in USA you will see what his students have to learn.
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
I must be honest and say some ID lines can be quirky. Talented but definitely not for a novice rider.
We use one such line but temper it down with a calm stallion, and that works fine.
We use one such line but temper it down with a calm stallion, and that works fine.
Partoow
Well-Known Member
Animo, talented but can be pretty arsey!!
Pilot, fantastic blood when 'watered down'i.e 2nd and 3rd generation, as it is an iconic stallion for the jumping but can be tricky!!.
Like many things it is a matter of preference, i love the Ferro blooline, get on really well with it, but they can be and are 'quirky'. They jump but the 'Ulft' part of thr bloodline means they do not tolerate fools and once you loose their confidence jumping thats your lot!! For a lot of people they simply are a pain.
i think really talented horses are inclined to be 'odd' and not always straight forward.
Most experienced breeders are using the talent and maybe a bit less predictable balanced with good temperament. You see this a lot in the dressage world in particular.
Saying that i will put a willingness to work and to want to please very high up my 'must have' list.
Hansome is as hansome does as the old saying goes!!
Pilot, fantastic blood when 'watered down'i.e 2nd and 3rd generation, as it is an iconic stallion for the jumping but can be tricky!!.
Like many things it is a matter of preference, i love the Ferro blooline, get on really well with it, but they can be and are 'quirky'. They jump but the 'Ulft' part of thr bloodline means they do not tolerate fools and once you loose their confidence jumping thats your lot!! For a lot of people they simply are a pain.
i think really talented horses are inclined to be 'odd' and not always straight forward.
Most experienced breeders are using the talent and maybe a bit less predictable balanced with good temperament. You see this a lot in the dressage world in particular.
Saying that i will put a willingness to work and to want to please very high up my 'must have' list.
Hansome is as hansome does as the old saying goes!!
BBH
Well-Known Member
LOL, You've hit the nail on the head. My horse is out of a mare by Animo put to Cruising could it get any worse.
StaceyTanglewood
Well-Known Member
ive always found Libero H horses to be lazy sods - that dont really want to work !!!
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
I think it really does come down, as a couple people have mentioned, to personal preference and the "mix" more than "this or that bloodline". I do often hear people give opinions on various stallions without seeming to consider the mare line at all, when in fact it is often the "nick" that produces extremes - good or bad. Also, not everyone wants the same things and my idea of "enthusiastic" might be your idea of "lunatic", not to mention that high calibre competition makes different demands on a horse than, for instance, being a [relative] novice mount so what is valued and encouraged in one situation might lead to disaster in another. In other words, if a horse is highly athletic and enthusiastic it might be a fantastic GP horse or a frightening RC mount.
I've also seen one trainer have success again and again with lines other people struggle with and vice versa. It's hard to judge if you only see part of the picture as it might be completely unrepresentative.
I would disagree though, that bloodlines have no influence on temperament. I'll agree it's is impossible to generalise and you're usually working on a scale but I've known some individuals that produce virtual "cookie cutter" offspring, at least in a few areas. In more than one case I've known stallions that consistently produced good minded offspring even from borderline mares - particularly interesting because it completely removes the "nurture" aspect. I've also seen certain lines produce horses that thrived (or failed) under particular training systems and while they may have seemed perfectly amenable in the end, it's possible the path hasn't been smooth. (I've had two horses with very difficult reputations given to me, both from known "difficult" family lines, who are absolutely lovely now especially since they are managed in a way that suits them. But they weren't lovely as young horses.
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A better way of doing it might be looking for what you like and narrowing the focus that way. It would be much easier for people to say this or that family/cross TENDS towards this or that temperament/outlook/physical type etc. than to say "avoid this" without knowing what, exactly, you want to avoid.
I've also seen one trainer have success again and again with lines other people struggle with and vice versa. It's hard to judge if you only see part of the picture as it might be completely unrepresentative.
I would disagree though, that bloodlines have no influence on temperament. I'll agree it's is impossible to generalise and you're usually working on a scale but I've known some individuals that produce virtual "cookie cutter" offspring, at least in a few areas. In more than one case I've known stallions that consistently produced good minded offspring even from borderline mares - particularly interesting because it completely removes the "nurture" aspect. I've also seen certain lines produce horses that thrived (or failed) under particular training systems and while they may have seemed perfectly amenable in the end, it's possible the path hasn't been smooth. (I've had two horses with very difficult reputations given to me, both from known "difficult" family lines, who are absolutely lovely now especially since they are managed in a way that suits them. But they weren't lovely as young horses.
A better way of doing it might be looking for what you like and narrowing the focus that way. It would be much easier for people to say this or that family/cross TENDS towards this or that temperament/outlook/physical type etc. than to say "avoid this" without knowing what, exactly, you want to avoid.
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
Sorry BR, but you did make me laugh.
We love the Cruising bloodline but they are definitely quirky.
I doubt there is better for XC but they don't suffer fools ever.
You sound to have a double dose of quirky, so perhaps it will cancel itself out!
I have just spent almost six months searching for a Cruising broodmare in the hope that by putting her to our Belgian TB stallion we can breed his replacement as he is now 18.
Up to now all his youngsters have been exceptionally trainable and willing, so I'm hoping it will be a match made in heaven.
We have tried lots of different bloodlines over the years and I am convinced certain ones do pass on characteristics, I've yet to meet a horse bred from Artic Cue who can't /won't jump for example.
We love the Cruising bloodline but they are definitely quirky.
I doubt there is better for XC but they don't suffer fools ever.
You sound to have a double dose of quirky, so perhaps it will cancel itself out!
I have just spent almost six months searching for a Cruising broodmare in the hope that by putting her to our Belgian TB stallion we can breed his replacement as he is now 18.
Up to now all his youngsters have been exceptionally trainable and willing, so I'm hoping it will be a match made in heaven.
We have tried lots of different bloodlines over the years and I am convinced certain ones do pass on characteristics, I've yet to meet a horse bred from Artic Cue who can't /won't jump for example.
imafluffybunny
Well-Known Member
I had a gelding whos dam was by pilot, he was a fab horse but had a real tendancy to nap, I also have a mare who's dam is by Vatout, she can be very sharp. Both of these stallions are known for breeding difficulties in some offspring.
I am not a big fan of Weltmeyer either, I have seen quite a few very difficult horses by him.
I dont think you can judge every horse by just its breeding though, and like someone else has said, I think quirky can make for a better horse in the right hands.
I am not a big fan of Weltmeyer either, I have seen quite a few very difficult horses by him.
I dont think you can judge every horse by just its breeding though, and like someone else has said, I think quirky can make for a better horse in the right hands.