For your info - buyer beware article

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ilostmymarbles - as JM07 says, go ahead, report me too. I haven't done anything so it won't get you very far. Re-read what I have written and what you have written. I haven't made any personal attacks but you have. So far you have stated twice that I am advocating that novice owners refrain from asking advice when buying a horse when in fact I have strongly urged just the opposite. You have called me "average" which, to be fair, made me giggle because I feel quite proud to be average. I always thought I was some way below average you see!

Latterly, you've begun to use language more associated with warfare as you tell Shannagolden that you are "aiming" [posts] at me and then end by saying that I am "attacking" you. Please think about what you are saying.

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hope you don't mind me including you in my reply to ilostmymarbles???


as fo yourself..i'd say you are an above average Average!!
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Sales are soo much better these days. More often then not the horses do have hay, though sadly not always access to water. The horses/ponies can be in the pen for some hours, but then so they can be when going to a show. Im sure like myself many have witnessed far worse then what is seen on your video. I am sorry, but I have also had good reason to be grateful to auction sales like Melton. If you know what to look for you can pick up a real bargain. Yes you get a fair few dealers, but you also get decent people. It is also a good training ground for providing examples of poor conformation & on what not to breed. Funny you dont see people getting so upset when farm animals get sold via the auction ring. The situation is not ideal, but it has improved & I am sure it will continue to.
 
Sadly your are right, many have seen far worse than the clips in the video and far worse could have been included in the video. However footage that shocks often just causes people to switch off or not watch in the first place defeating the purpose of showing it. This footage was to begin to start awareness, it was not shown to create a peak of outrage that disappears in 48 hours achieving absolutely nothing.

I think it a sad inditement that in general people have to see something shocking for anything to register. Many children who look well fed and cared for are still being abused - is that ok then? Animals or children - the signs are always there that there is a problem, but subtly does not appear to register anymore. We need starvation and death before an eyebrow is raised and indeed why neglect and cruelty are rife. If as an equestrian nation we believe we are so knowledgeable, experienced, so good at what we do, so justified in our beliefs, why are there any so many problems? When there is a high profile media case the majority jump up and down and want to help - indignant that atrocities are allowed to happen in the first place - but is it our overall complacency that sits at the root cause. It is complacency that stops us being preventative. Prevention being the only approach to achieving positive long term sustainable change.

It is easy to say things have improved, don’t know what all the fuss is about - but people are fighting on a daily basis for those changes – the improvements happen because of pressure from groups, charities and committed individuals 365 days a year, not because our governing bodies or DEFRA get a pang of conscious. Improvements are not an opportunity to feel better about ourselves - they are merely a step in the right direction. Today’s horse is the result of approximately 65, 000 years of evolution - flight and fear is in their DNA and courses through their veins, yet they have the willingness, generosity and ability to adapt to our desires and needs. They do this without all the things we cling to such as ‘how to’ DVD’s, books, websites, courses, teachers, even forums. They are mute - they cannot tell us verbally how they feel - only show us, and yet even after 6000 years of domesticating them we still fail to see.

When we see as a species how we treat each other, it comes as not surprise to hear we find certain levels of suffering and or fear acceptable – what’s terrifying - is how readily we justify it.
Emma
 
Gotta say; comparing what goes on over there to what I've seen over here at auctions, the UK ones look like 5 star hotels. At the last auction I went to over here, only a handful of the 80 or so horses had not been doped - it's very quick and easy to check for needle pricks.

As for the guy buying the horse unseen, well there is a risk to buying anything unseen. I personally wouldn't advocate it, certainly not to a novice, however I have bought unseen and yes I ended up with a hell of a handful, but it wasn't a massive cause for concern and the horse eventually turned around with great input and a lot of time, and I found the perfect home for her in the end.

I have a set-up which allows for slight spanners in the works - a lot of people do not have these tools and skills available to them, so they should be very careful, especially when it comes to offering a home to a living breathing animal.
 
A 5 star hotel? - Like I said.......
When we see as a species how we treat each other, it comes as no surprise to hear we find certain levels of suffering and or fear acceptable – what’s terrifying - is how readily we justify it.
 
It's hardly "terrifying", justifying what we saw in your video
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, there's nothing to justify in my opinion. Just looks like a situation where horses are bored and want to be doing something other than standing around on concrete. I do think that some people have a tendency to over dramatize.
 
Tia, with respect I think you have completely missed the point, but that’s fine because this thread has served its purpose.

By taking this thread as a snap shot of HHO opinion what this exercise has shown me is the majority with experience have little or no regard for people who make mistakes however easy to some they are to avoid. Secondly in regard to equine welfare, any interest in pursuing further improvements and thereby participating in a culture of prevention is only triggered when there are obvious signs of cruelty, starvation, neglect and corpses.

Thirdly there are people on this forum who would rather PM me privately with their experiences and concerns than share them on here for fear of ridicule and sarcasm.

For some the footage has been their first taste of a lower end equine market or any equine market and it was enough. They did not need to see the horse being loaded by handlers who flipped it over and broke it's neck. Or the mare so heavily in foal she was running milk or another mare tethered so tight that when a stallion was accidentally put next to her and went for her through the bars she lost her footing and was hanging herself until someone cut the rope.

The video in the article has also been cut to hide identities - the footage I have just mentioned is full of the people involved. That footage and similar is collected for other purposes.

Thank you to all for your time and comments.
Emma
 
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