Forestry Commission sell off

Just watched it on the news. Shameful! It seems nothing is safe from privatisation. Selling to the private sector for money by the government.

The NHS is going the same way, except it's through the back door and most of the public are totally unaware of it.
 
Not exactly a surprise with this government - they would sell their grandma to make a few quid.

I think it will be devastating for some areas especially as it seems only pedestrian access will have any protection. Those of you relying on Forestry riding had better start lobbying now - Big Society more like BS!.

Personally at the moment I am more worried about losing my job, rising inflation and not being able to keep my horse or house.
 
sussexbythesea said:
Not exactly a surprise with this government - they would sell their grandma to make a few quid.

I think it will be devastating for some areas especially as it seems only pedestrian access will have any protection. Those of you relying on Forestry riding had better start lobbying now - Big Society more like BS!.

Personally at the moment I am more worried about losing my job, rising inflation and not being able to keep my horse or house.
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Yes that is most peoples worry, my guess is this is to help ballance the books and pay off the debt left by gordo however far more could be saved by cutting the foreign aid!!! yes I know it would upset african dictators and their swiss bankers, but charity begins at home... and we pay the EU gravy train milions every day to make potty rules and inforce the charter on criminal rights... yes its not funny nor is shafting our armed forces or selling national assets like the FC, I feel good about not voting for call me dave and his blue labour ....
 
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I actually think that the sale by the Forestry Comission is probably illegal - and I'd love to see it challenged in the courts.
 
perfect11s said:
Yes that is most peoples worry, my guess is this is to help ballance the books and pay off the debt left by gordo however far more could be saved by cutting the foreign aid!!! yes I know it would upset african dictators and their swiss bankers, but charity begins at home... and we pay the EU gravy train milions every day to make potty rules and inforce the charter on criminal rights... yes its not funny nor is shafting our armed forces or selling national assets like the FC, I feel good about not voting for call me dave and his blue labour ....
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They want to raise £100 million from selling our ancient woodlands, meanwhile the Government are spending £1,000 million on just the planning stage for HS2, a new ultra high speed railway line from London to Birmingham which will save 20 minutes on the existing journey. It would be a joke if it didnt involve such unnecessary destruction of our countryside.
 
Replay said:
They want to raise £100 million from selling our ancient woodlands,.....
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Not so, I'm afraid. generally those woodlands being offered for sale, are no older than post 1946.

Mature woodlands, those which could be considered old, are generally, still in private ownership, even though they may be managed under the guidance of The Commission. The "Guidance" will have had a fairly hefty input of public funding, and a funding which would be clawed back, in the event that the vendor, or prospective buyer failed to comply with conditions which were originally agreed.

Forestry land which has been deemed "Dedicated woodland", is of no earthly use to the purchaser, "as woodland". It's a huge tax avoidance fiddle. It's been going on for years. By all accounts Terry Wogan owns half of Cumbria!!

When Commission land is sold of, on the very rarest of occasions for development, then factored into any sale, is a whopping great repayment, into the government coffers, and quite rightly so. If we, the tax payers have funded the development of our forests, then the penalties for taking it out of the "scheme", are equally whopping!!

Not everything, is always as it seems!

Alec.
 
They were talking about it on the radio today and saying how sad it would be if people had to pay to access the woodlands but my understanding was that you had always had to pay to ride in FC woods.

I remember years ago having to pay for a permit to ride in a FC woodland local to me and then been given a key to unlock the gates.

More recently hadn't TROT or one of the other toll ride associations taken over the issuing of permits for the woods?
 
Lots of signs in our local wood saying it may be sold off. That will be my only area to hack in - gone.

I really don't want to have to stay on roads, it's far too dangerous now :(
 
sussexbythesea said:
Not exactly a surprise with this government - they would sell their grandma to make a few quid.

I think it will be devastating for some areas especially as it seems only pedestrian access will have any protection. Those of you relying on Forestry riding had better start lobbying now - Big Society more like BS!.

Personally at the moment I am more worried about losing my job, rising inflation and not being able to keep my horse or house.
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Number One - Don't blame the Government - well, at least the bit of it that SOME people vote for. The bit you want to be afraid of - is the Civil Service - they originate all the ideas!

Number Two - The Forestry Commission is a Governmental Body that tries to make out it's a cuddly environmentally ( and sometimes ) horseyfriendly benevolent society when it isn't - they are full of their own importance and will clear fell great swathes of woodlands on a whim - all neatly cut into sizes that fit fence panels.

Number Three - The writing has been on the wall ( well on the trees at least ) for some years following their attempts at CHARGING horseys for using their woods - they're not THEIR WOODS - They're OURS! Horseys folk have a Right to go in them! Agreeing to pay a single penny signs away years of free access.

Number Four - Privatisation, per se - is not in itself a bad thing - remember what old folks used to say about the Railways running on time? They were privately owned but c**cked up by Government creating British Rail.
 
jodie3 said:
They were talking about it on the radio today and saying how sad it would be if people had to pay to access the woodlands but my understanding was that you had always had to pay to ride in FC woods.

I remember years ago having to pay for a permit to ride in a FC woodland local to me and then been given a key to unlock the gates.

More recently hadn't TROT or one of the other toll ride associations taken over the issuing of permits for the woods?
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Riding in the New Forest (managed by the Forestry Commission) whether on heathland on in the Inclosures (woodland) is Free... They did try some years back to try and make riders pay for a permit, but it all collapsed around them, I think it was found to be illegal...
 
Just a query there's talk that ramblers will have to pay to use the footpaths in the 'owned' forest, if this is the case, are they going to make it that farmers can charge ramblers to walk across their pathss???? If not it's hipocracy.....!!!!

I think for such a little gain to the government we'd loose far too much in our heritage, didn't another country do this and all their forests are now owned by Japan or something???!!!

Also where next, selling your local parks off????
 
1stclassalan said:
Number One - Don't blame the Government - well, at least the bit of it that SOME people vote for. The bit you want to be afraid of - is the Civil Service - they originate all the ideas!

Number Two - The Forestry Commission is a Governmental Body that tries to make out it's a cuddly environmentally ( and sometimes ) horseyfriendly benevolent society when it isn't - they are full of their own importance and will clear fell great swathes of woodlands on a whim - all neatly cut into sizes that fit fence panels.

Number Three - The writing has been on the wall ( well on the trees at least ) for some years following their attempts at CHARGING horseys for using their woods - they're not THEIR WOODS - They're OURS! Horseys folk have a Right to go in them! Agreeing to pay a single penny signs away years of free access.

Number Four - Privatisation, per se - is not in itself a bad thing - remember what old folks used to say about the Railways running on time? They were privately owned but c**cked up by Government creating British Rail.
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1) I'll blame who I like!

2) Actually the Civil Service and any other ALB have been completely gagged by this government and are forbidden to disagree with ministers. So what you have just said is utter c**p. In fact the Public Bodies reform bill gives them powers to get rid of any public body without public consultation - that's democracy for you! So the Civil Service and ALB's with experts in their fields are not allowed to influence government - instead we have individual MP's with their own political agendas and no expertise making decisions on things they have no knowledge of.

3) Why don't you read this sure it's a bit longer than a Daily Mail article but I'm sure you'll manage.

http://www.epolitix.com/legislation...ewsarticle/public-bodies-reform-bill-2010-11/

4) Every penny that the government or taxpayers gives the Civil Service or ALB's ends up back driving the economy one way or another through spending it in private business - your a fool if you think any different - hundreds if not thousands of private businesses that rely heavily on Government contracts from major capital works to stationary will have noticed a dramatic decrease in revenue and many will go to the wall. The rest paid in salaries ends up back in the economy as well - no one I know has made enough money in the public sector to have an offshore bank account.

5) Maybe if private industry did not fiddle their books and do so many cash-in-hand jobs without paying tax maybe we would be in the debt we are in? Funny most of the people I know who work in the private sector have much bigger houses, second homes and a nice pot of money in the bank. They are welcome to it because their jobs are often boring and with no satisfaction of doing anything worthwhile.
 
sussexbythesea said:
Why don't you read this sure it's a bit longer than a Daily Mail article but I'm sure you'll manage.
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Ha,ha,ha - how I love the Interweb! The Daily Mail isn't fit to blanch celery!

- no one I know has made enough money in the public sector to have an offshore bank account.
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Ah.... I fear that this is part of many a thread I've seen with your name on it. There are over 260 Civil Servants being paid more than the Prime Minister and more than a few on three times as much.

M.P.'s might like to think that they run the country but as the civil service write all the laws and control all information - there's very little that gets done which isn't absolutely to their liking.

Maybe if private industry did not fiddle their books and do so many cash-in-hand jobs without paying tax maybe we would be in the debt we are in? Funny most of the people I know who work in the private sector have much bigger houses, second homes and a nice pot of money in the bank. They are welcome to it because their jobs are often boring and with no satisfaction of doing anything worthwhile.
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The Civil Service regular fiddles figures - massages if you like - take a look at the Olympic Games or the Dome - Nuclear Power - many more - they're all the same - fiddled.
The present world wide financial problems have been brought about by ALL governments misunderstanding how capitalism works and thinking that the bankers could provide them with limitless growth without pain.
 
sussexbythesea said:
1) I'll blame who I like!

2) Actually the Civil Service and any other ALB have been completely gagged by this government and are forbidden to disagree with ministers. So what you have just said is utter c**p. In fact the Public Bodies reform bill gives them powers to get rid of any public body without public consultation - that's democracy for you! So the Civil Service and ALB's with experts in their fields are not allowed to influence government - instead we have individual MP's with their own political agendas and no expertise making decisions on things they have no knowledge of.

3) Why don't you read this sure it's a bit longer than a Daily Mail article but I'm sure you'll manage.

http://www.epolitix.com/legislation...ewsarticle/public-bodies-reform-bill-2010-11/

4) Every penny that the government or taxpayers gives the Civil Service or ALB's ends up back driving the economy one way or another through spending it in private business - your a fool if you think any different - hundreds if not thousands of private businesses that rely heavily on Government contracts from major capital works to stationary will have noticed a dramatic decrease in revenue and many will go to the wall. The rest paid in salaries ends up back in the economy as well - no one I know has made enough money in the public sector to have an offshore bank account.

5) Maybe if private industry did not fiddle their books and do so many cash-in-hand jobs without paying tax maybe we would be in the debt we are in? Funny most of the people I know who work in the private sector have much bigger houses, second homes and a nice pot of money in the bank. They are welcome to it because their jobs are often boring and with no satisfaction of doing anything worthwhile.
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Oh how I would love some cushy overpaid job pushing paper for the gubermint, but sadly some of us have to do things that make the money to pay the taxes that pay for the services that we need:D, you know that strange concept that we need to make something or offer a service to jonny foreiner, export something ie.. metal bashed into machines,something artistic, banking even!! because we can not just take in each others washing ..have to make money not just spend it!!! yes I know its a strange concept after 13 years of a goverment that believed there was limitless money to waste....
 
amymay said:
I actually think that the sale by the Forestry Comission is probably illegal - and I'd love to see it challenged in the courts.
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There's been a bit of panic re the New Forest but considering the FC don't actually own it (it's Crown Land) and only manage it, it's not theirs to sell! I wonder how much land they do actually own . . . .
 
I am helping with a campaign in East Anglia to ensure that horse riders will not lose their access to forests if, as seems likely, the Sell off goes ahead.
Forestry Commission was formed in the 1920s at a time of timber shortage following the First World War. They began planting forests, which took a generation to mature. Of course FC cuts down trees, they have to harvest them for timber. But they also replant.
FC are currently the largest single supplier of timber in the UK. They are also the largest single provider of outdoor recreation in the UK: this includes walking, horse riding, cycling, husky racing, orienteering, not to mention picnic sites, camp sites, adventure sites etc.
At one time horse riders had to pay FC for a permit and wear a tabard. In 2001 the BHS made a concessionary agreement (Concordat) with FC which granted horseriders free access to FC land.
DEFRA has told us that if FC land is sold, the new owner will be under no obligation to continue granting access to horseriders.
If you ride or enter events on FC land, or would like to help those of us lucky enough to do so, please contact your MP to say how important it is for horse riders to have free access to the safe off-road environment offered by forestry.
You can contact your MP via the 38degrees Save our Forests website.
 
Hullaballoo said:
I am helping with a campaign in East Anglia to ensure that horse riders will not lose their access to forests if, as seems likely, the Sell off goes ahead.
Forestry Commission was formed in the 1920s at a time of timber shortage following the First World War. They began planting forests, which took a generation to mature. Of course FC cuts down trees, they have to harvest them for timber. But they also replant.
FC are currently the largest single supplier of timber in the UK. They are also the largest single provider of outdoor recreation in the UK: this includes walking, horse riding, cycling, husky racing, orienteering, not to mention picnic sites, camp sites, adventure sites etc.
At one time horse riders had to pay FC for a permit and wear a tabard. In 2001 the BHS made a concessionary agreement (Concordat) with FC which granted horseriders free access to FC land.
DEFRA has told us that if FC land is sold, the new owner will be under no obligation to continue granting access to horseriders.
If you ride or enter events on FC land, or would like to help those of us lucky enough to do so, please contact your MP to say how important it is for horse riders to have free access to the safe off-road environment offered by forestry.
You can contact your MP via the 38degrees Save our Forests website.
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I started a campaign when the F.C. first proposed the idea of charging riders to exercise their common rights! However; I became extremely dispondent by over half the other participants accepting the principle in return for promised improvements to bridleways - and my mare dying didn't do much for my enthusiasm either.

Every rider who uses F.C. managed land must look to the ramblers back in the 1920's and 30's who organised mass trespasses to establish The Right to Roam - if they hadn't done that - the countryside would be closed to everyone.
 
I used to be surrounded by beautiful ancient woodlands, none of which I was allowed to walk or ride in by order of the owner. The owner is the Duchy of Lancaster (the Crown). On that basis, a privatised FC cannot be any worse. If anything, it might actually be better as the new owners might let me in for a fee. I'd be happy to pay!
 
The Government has already committed to taking 15% of the public forest estate out of state control over the course of this parliament, generating up to £100million of receipts.
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Well they could have ensured that there was at least twice that amount (£200million) in the coffers by not scrapping the new fleet of RAF nimrods (which is what it is costing, plus compensation) to cut them up.

This government is crazy, I simply can't get my head round some of the things they are doing to raise money.

Two things which will sort the defecit out in a heartbeat:

Cut (scrap) foreign aid.
Privatise the health system.

Job done.

Oh yes, and block the payment of bank bonuses on the National banks.

There we are - I've just made them billions. And it really wasn't so tricky......
 
Talk about hysteria....look....its a maximum of 15% of the total woodland....whoever buys it is going to have to see that it at least breaks even as an investment....this means either cropping and replanting or allowing access under either a license or by offering moneymaking facilities such as trails, car parks or lodges......these all exist and run very nicely in existing projects. Er ....hello.....in the grand scheme of things very little will change.

If the previous government hadnt fecked up the economy this wouldnt be happening.....or would all you labour voters prefer it if we didnt build a couple of schools or hospitals?? Take your pick.
 
Please see the News Story below from The British Horse Society website (www.bhs.org.uk) regarding this forum topic:

Horse riders add their weight to forestry fight

The UK’s largest equestrian charity, The British Horse Society has pledged its commitment to fight for the future of equestrian access to public forests.

Equestrian access to thousands of acres of England’s forests could be lost if public forests are sold off as part of the Government's efforts to plug the national deficit. A consultation on the future of the public forest estate opened this morning and the Society is urging all equestrians to respond.

As it stands, horse riders have access to just 22 percent of public rights of way and horse-drawn vehicle drivers a mere five percent - therefore the loss of any other safe off-road riding opportunities in our forests would be devastating for equestrians if access is not preserved.

The Society’s Director of Access, Safety and Welfare, Mark Weston, said: “If there is to be a sale of any forest it is important that access for equestrians is secured for future generations before any such sale takes place - if that cannot be assured then we would oppose any sale vigorously.

“Now is the time for riders to make their voices heard. It is important that all equestrians respond to the consultation to ensure that equestrian access to our forests is preserved.”

The Society is urging all riders to join them in their campaign. Anyone who wishes to be kept up-to-date with the Society’s progress should email forestryfight@bhs.org.uk, with the subject title ‘count me in’.​

Thank you!
 
amymay said:
Well they could have ensured that there was at least twice that amount (£200million) in the coffers by not scrapping the new fleet of RAF nimrods (which is what it is costing, plus compensation) to cut them up.
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The scheme has cost £1.4 billion and is likely to overrun the now four times over budget - all these defence contracts are cost plus so you never know the final figure and just have to cough up until you shout "uncle." That's what the government have just done. I don't like it but I have a vested interest as my old mate is one of the most experienced Nimrod pilots in the world. The British radar inside them is far, far, better than anything else and we ( that's you young folk ) may live to regret scrapping it.)


Oh yes, and block the payment of bank bonuses on the National banks.
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Because bankers who get large bonuses are already higher rate taxpayers - they pay nearly half of every bonus straight to the government ( that's why the governments love them so much! ) This year the banks will pay out £5billion in pay and bonuses - if you stop them, the exchequer will be £2billion down. - Over to you.

[/QUOTE]
 
spaniel said:
Talk about hysteria.........If the previous government hadnt fecked up the economy.
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It matters not one jot how one votes - the economy of the world is royally fecked up as you so admirally put it.

Once upon a time, we all lived in the trees and had no money, later we learned to walk about and grow things and started bartering with other tribes. Some bright spark discovered gold was shiny and well.... golden, everyone liked it and trade with it but there's only 140,000 tons of it in the entire planet - 35,840 old fashioned ounzes in a ton = even at today's inflated price the final figure is way below the money in circulation around the world and far less than what goes through the London Financial Futures Market EVERY DAY.

Your banknotes may very well ne printed with "I promise to pay the bearer" but it's not really worth the paper it's printed on - it's pie in the sky. Governments of all shades have simply printed all this money on the understanding that the market will constantly supply the mechanism to hold it all together - but it can't. And what we are seeing ( it's not finished yet !) is what happens when a load of money market dealers come in to work all over the world and collectively scream WHAT HAVE WE DONE!

Go check.
 
1stclassalan said:
It matters not one jot how one votes - the economy of the world is royally fecked up as you so admirally put it.

Once upon a time, we all lived in the trees and had no money, later we learned to walk about and grow things and started bartering with other tribes. Some bright spark discovered gold was shiny and well.... golden, everyone liked it and trade with it but there's only 140,000 tons of it in the entire planet - 35,840 old fashioned ounzes in a ton = even at today's inflated price the final figure is way below the money in circulation around the world and far less than what goes through the London Financial Futures Market EVERY DAY.

Your banknotes may very well ne printed with "I promise to pay the bearer" but it's not really worth the paper it's printed on - it's pie in the sky. Governments of all shades have simply printed all this money on the understanding that the market will constantly supply the mechanism to hold it all together - but it can't. And what we are seeing ( it's not finished yet !) is what happens when a load of money market dealers come in to work all over the world and collectively scream WHAT HAVE WE DONE!

Go check.
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And by the sounds of it, when it all collapses around our ears, there aren't going to be any trees left for us to climb back up into to start all over again...
 
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