Foxes & snares

[spottysport]

Hi, this is my first post, so excuse any cock-ups!
I am an ex 'townie'who now lives in the middle of nowhere! I used to be completely against hunting in any form, but the alternatives are so much worse.
We have a family of visiting foxes. We actually feed them. There are some people who like to snare these same foxes in the interests of 'controlling' them. I can hear them out of my window shooting them one by one. What people don't realise is that the fox has probably been snared or trapped 3 or 4 days before. It has been lying there, probably going mad for god knows how long. Also these snares are indescriminate. My cat was caught in one for at least 5 days before they checked their trap. (Checked every 24hrs my ass!)
I have come to realise that foxes do need to be culled, and the absolute best way to do this is by the hound, as it has always been.

 

[GinaB]

Snares are just horrific. It's better for them to have a quick death instead of lying trapped in ones of these for days slowly dying.

 

[severnmiles]

Even if you check them every 24hrs and a fox gets caught 4hrs after it is set its still 19hrs 59mins slower death than hounds killing.

 

[Hippy]

hello spottysport, i'm very much an 'anti' but i hope we can debate politely. thre problem with your post is that it describes two alternatives of hounds or snaring. this is a false choice. the people who hunt with hounds are the same people who support snaring and even use snares. snares were widely in use before the ban. the ca has always promoted the use of snares and still does just as it supports shooting foxes.

 

[severnmiles]

A question for you Flowerpower...

Who used snares the most before the ban on Foxhunting?

 

[spottysport]

Hi hippy,
I think the one thing that everyone agrees on is that foxes do need to be controlled, the only sticking point is by what method. There is also poisoning, trapping + shooting ect. I know by watching the foxes that visit me that if I were to trap one, (even in a cage) it would do ANYTHING to escape. These are wild animals. They also can become sick, mange ridden, and lame. Surely the most humane method is a quick dispatch by an experienced hound pack? To my mind the riders following the hounds are by the by. Having spoken to friends who hunt, they mostly only go for the ride, not for any bloodlust.

 

[wurzel]

One big difference.

DEFRA (The government) support and publish guidelines on snaring.

They have tried to ban hunting.

I would be quite happy never to snare again.

But I am going to continue hunting.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I don't snare or shoot and I have to admit I'm not particularily keen on either method.

I'll just carry on hunting if you don't mind. If the government ever manage to make a sensible law then I might even consider obeying it.

 

[Hippy]

I would be quite happy never to snare again.

But I am going to continue hunting.

you're half-way there

 

[Hercules]

''the people who hunt with hounds are the same people who support snaring and even use snares.'

Hippy,

Where is or evidence to support such a ridculous sweeping statement.
In my experience (which you lack), the farmers and landowners who permitted hunting across their land are the very same people who didn't allow snaring. Since the ban, they now do allow it because according to DEFRA, snaring is a preferred method of fox control than hunting.
Well done.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

half way where?

 

[Hippy]

you don't dispute that the ca supports fox-hunting? well, the same organisation has for many years been the staunchest defender of snares and enthusiastically lobbies for their continued use. the same goes for shooting.

 

[Hercules]

''enthusiastically lobbies for their continued use.''

Obviously. This is because the Hunting Act has removed one of the legitimate means of pest control. Foxes need controlling. There are only a few means avaiable. However the CA has always maintained that snaring is less humane han hunting.
It also warned the govt that a ban on hunting would result in an increase in snaring.

The CA were right. The government were deaf. The fox now gets slowly strangled. Happy?

 

[Sheltie]

if the hunting act had been about animal welfare snaring would have been banned long before hunting, but then labour banned hunting because of it Wrongly perceived image of it just being about toffs on horses killing foxes for sport.

 

[spottysport]

Honestly hippy, If you had seen my cat who got snared you would agree that killing him with a dog would have been kinder. He is a docile domestic pet, but had wounds where he had tried to chew his own foot off. He also had lost teeth from tryingto chew the wire. You apply this to a WILD fox and god only knows what they go through, and for how long.

 

[Fairynuff]

Did you say 5 days in a snare? Sorry, dont believe you. I doubt very much that a cat could survive 5 days snared and live to tell the tale. I think youre taking the mick. M. oo:

 

[brighteyes]

At last, a sensible ex-townie! Welcome to the forum.

 

[spottysport]

Hi Mairi,
He was missing for 5 days in total. I can't say how long he was snared,but I presume he would have made his way home to lick his wounds asap. The point that I was making was that the snares do not discriminate, and I know for a fact these people do not check their traps in the time frames they should. I count myself lucky that they let him go at all.

 

[wurzel]

half way where?

 

[jerryboy]

Which part of the country do you come from where the farmers have made this choice?

 

[Hippy]

yes but the question to ask isn't how the cat should die but whether it needs to be killed

 

[Clodagh]

Most gamekeepers would have shot the cat. The local chappie here wouldn't release any cat he caught in his traps or in his snares.
It was a lucky cat!
Most farmers that support hunting don't snare. We have a load of small shoot syndicates in Essex now, coming out from London mainly, and the thought of any animal eating one of their tame pheasants is the end of the world. Their covers end up denuded of any wildlife.

 

[spottysport]

I live in Scotland, where (I am led to believe) the law requires snares and traps to be checked every 24hrs as opposed to 48hrs in England

 

[spottysport]

Hippy,
Are you honestly saying that foxes do NOT need to be killed?? Are you a farmer that has found lambs (your livelihood!) with their throats ripped out? Or chickens killed not to eat, but for the fun of it! I used to be like you - then I moved to the country and experianced it for myself.
Also,to my knowledge,my cat has never tried to drag a lamb through my catflap, he poses no threat to any livestock. That's probably why they let him go!

 

[Fairynuff]

In the Venice Friuli region (Italy) the hunters have the right to shoot any cat or dog found outwith 5oo metres of the last human habitat all year round!!!!!!!!!!! God forbid if moggy disturbs the prey. And to think that civilisation is said to have started here and in Greece! M.

 

[Fairynuff]

cats will and do take pheasent chicks and leverets, among other things. I would love to compare sheep worrying numbers by dogs and the real number of live healthy lambs taken by foxes and those killed by crows. Dont know where to start looking though, anyone got an idea? M.

 

[Hippy]

spotty sport i think there's an obvious inconsistency in hunts killing foxes because they are pests and at the same time ensuring that there are foxes to kill. foxes may be a pest and need controlling but i take the pest control argument from any foxhunter with a siberian portion pinch of salt.

 

[spottysport]

You obviously realise that they need to be controlled, but my whole argument is the way that it is done. I CANNOT believe that snares, traps, poison, shooting or any other method is more humane than the hound. Yes there is a chase, but if you look at the animal world in general practically EVERYTHING has a natural enemy that chases it before the kill. That is life, that is what happens,and it will still be happening long after we're all dust!

 

[Fairynuff]

Im sorry to disagree with you again , its not intentional. In the wild , the predator will chase and if he can will kill his prey.On this we agree. There is NO predator on this planet who will chase his prey for an hour or more.This would mean a huge waste of energy and no guarantee that it will be recuperated the next day. Hunting foxes/deer with hounds is manmade as it stands today for the so called sport that is obtained by the subscribing followers.By all means cull foxes if this keeps the numbers down and the population healthy, please, do it with hounds that can despatch in minutes instead of having the stamina to run for miles. I dont believe for one minute that hunting with hounds is selective, its the fox who is lucky that day. Mairi.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Are foxes really chased non stop for over an hour? I thought that was a myth.