foxes them selves wanting the ban revoked?

[houndsplease]

Is it just me or are foxes trying to tell us something. since the ban came in and before we have been telling people that a ban on fox hunting will cause problems. and now the foxes are showing themselves that they want to go hunting and for the ban to be revoked. ive lost count of the number of cats killed (including 1 i found in the field half eaten the other day) people bitten and kids attacked in the past few months they are making a point and if they carry on at this rate then they will have the ban swapped for us.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

What a very interesting thread topic houndsplease. Firstly how many of the reported fox attacks on humans and pets are actually truthfull do we all think??
More important, given the ever growing number of huntstaff and followers etc illegally hunting, being caught doing so and convicted are hunters themselves not proving the ban more successful than we first thought it would be?

 

[Alec Swan]

.......More important, given the ever growing number of huntstaff and followers etc illegally hunting.......

Are you really being serious? Those who break the law, are prosecuted. Tell me how you expect the numbers to decrease.

I would suggest that you channel efforts into admonishing the "Ever growing number" of pedophiliac priests, people who drive with alcohol in their systems, parliamentarians who steal from their employers (that's you and I, by the way) and those who would earn their living by theft. Do that, and you may earn my respect.

Don't come on this forum and berate those who take part in, and adhere to the acceptable conditions, attached to a rural pursuit, please.

Alec.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Do this.....Dont do that??

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Don't come on this forum and berate those who take part in, and adhere to the acceptable conditions, attached to a rural pursuit, please.

Alec.[/QUOTE]

Are you being serious with the above Alec? I merely mentioned convicted criminals.

 

[Ahunter]

Hi Binkle,

"Are you being serious with the above Alec? I merely mentioned convicted criminals"

As always somebody disagrees with you, I suspect he is right,


I suspect that the real answer is that, although a record is kept of the conviction, the conviction shows that a person has committed a breach of the Hunting Act, not that the person is a criminal.


"More important, given the ever growing number of huntstaff and followers etc illegally hunting, being caught doing so and convicted are hunters themselves not proving the ban more successful than we first thought it would be?"

From Registered hunts more have been acquitted than convicted, you will have to explain how the ban is proving more successful than we first thought.


"As I understand it, of those 140 cases, only 12 completed prosecutions have involved registered hunts.In 7 of those cases the Defendant was acquitted and in 5 of the cases Defendants were convicted"

 

[Alec Swan]

....... I merely mentioned convicted criminals.

B_F, if you would care to go back, and read your opening post, you will see that you made accusations, against and I quote ".......given the ever growing number of huntstaff and followers etc illegally hunting.......". Perhaps you'd care to reconsider your words. You didn't "merely" mention "convicted criminals", without evidence, you have accused others of breaking the law.

I'm assuming that you've given no further thoughts to my suggestions, as to how you might better fill your time?

Alec.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Hi Binkle,

"Are you being serious with the above Alec? I merely mentioned convicted criminals"

As always somebody disagrees with you, I suspect he is right,


I suspect that the real answer is that, although a record is kept of the conviction, the conviction shows that a person has committed a breach of the Hunting Act, not that the person is a criminal.


"More important, given the ever growing number of huntstaff and followers etc illegally hunting, being caught doing so and convicted are hunters themselves not proving the ban more successful than we first thought it would be?"

From Registered hunts more have been acquitted than convicted, you will have to explain how the ban is proving more successful than we first thought.


"As I understand it, of those 140 cases, only 12 completed prosecutions have involved registered hunts.In 7 of those cases the Defendant was acquitted and in 5 of the cases Defendants were convicted"

Oh come on Alec, "I suspect that the real answer is that, although a record is kept of the conviction, the conviction shows that a person has committed a breach of the Hunting Act, not that the person is a criminal."

Although I have no intention of getting drawn into a long debate about hunting you really cannot expect to get away with posting the lawyer speak above Alec, surely. The 'conviction', recieved for breaching the hunting act is as you well know a criminal conviction for breaking a law (which the Hunting Act is). The record of that conviction is placed on the persons criminal record. Therefore the person is a criminal and has to provide that information when asked in certain circumstances about any criminal convictions they have.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

B_F, if you would care to go back, and read your opening post, you will see that you made accusations, against and I quote ".......given the ever growing number of huntstaff and followers etc illegally hunting.......". Perhaps you'd care to reconsider your words. You didn't "merely" mention "convicted criminals", without evidence, you have accused others of breaking the law.

I'm assuming that you've given no further thoughts to my suggestions, as to how you might better fill your time?

Alec.

My comments I can see have led to confusion. I was merely replying in kind to the opening post and did not intend in any way to accuse others of breaking the law. As for filling my time up I really dont understand what you are getting at. I posted one comment on the hunting part of the forum and you seem to think I now need to be giving my time to paedophiles, drink drivers etc etc Having considered your suggestion I will leave them in your very capable hands

 

[Ahunter]

Binkle Flip, Referring to convicted criminals is far to a sweeping statement and places people who rape and murder alongside Richard Down who broke the hunting act because he used three hounds instead of two to flush a deer, surely you can see that’s wrong , If you had said to Alec,

“Are you being serious with the above Alec? I merely mentioned those that had convictions for minor offences under the hunting act.

Then I would have nothing to say on the matter.

As you have not mentioned “the ban being proved more successful than we first thought” I guess you have taken my response on board.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Hi Ahunter. I actually got confused as to who I was responding to so apologise for that.
Of course there are very different levels of crime and those convicted of breaching the hunting act can not and should not be compared to the serious criminals you have mentioned. However, a criminal record is just that. A record of crimes committed and laws broken by an individual and a top lawyer trying to create a smokescreen around the true situation is nothing less than farcical

 

[Xlthlx]

What a very interesting thread topic houndsplease. Firstly how many of the reported fox attacks on humans and pets are actually truthfull do we all think??
More important, given the ever growing number of huntstaff and followers etc illegally hunting, being caught doing so and convicted are hunters themselves not proving the ban more successful than we first thought it would be?

In interesting point. What percentage of the allegations against hunts are triuthful do you reckon?

 

[Xlthlx]

Growing number being caught.

Um it's hardly going to go down is it? Unless they get let off on repeal.

I believe the figure atm if people prosecuted for actual fox/stag hunting is 11

11 people out of 50,000 that hunt prosecuted in 6 years that's a ration of about 2/50,000 per year.

Compare that to 2/ 650 MPs sent to prison in a year for far more serious offenses.

Hunters are considerably more law abiding than a lot of other sections of society.

 

[Fiagai]

...Don't come on this forum and berate those who take part in, and adhere to the acceptable conditions, attached to a rural pursuit, please. Alec.

.... I posted one comment on the hunting part of the forum and you seem to think I now need to be giving my time to paedophiles, drink drivers etc etc Having considered your suggestion I will leave them in your very capable hands

B&F - your whole raison d'etre on this forum would appear to be attacking those who in the words of Alec Swan....

... those who take part in, and adhere to the acceptable conditions, attached to a rural pursuit

I realise you do not need to have an equestrian interest to register on the forum but the question presents itself why if you dont like the topics posted in the Hunting Forum are you preservering in this den of inequity and obviously horrible people?

I am sure there is somewhere out there as Alec suggested that would benefit much better from your enormous talents

 

[cptrayes]

cats killed .... people bitten and kids attacked in the past few months they are making a point and if they carry on at this rate then they will have the ban swapped for us.

Well it'll be interesting country to hunt - the suburbs of cities and major towns where these attacks are taking place. Given the size of most suburban gardens we'll need horses that can bounce ten fences in a row, wait to cross the road when the green man is showing, duck and dive between the buses and the cars and treat a 10ft leylandii as a bullfinch.


ps if you have lived in Bristol and seen an urban fox happily walk up to your lounge window and stare in at you eating your tea, you'd have no difficulty believing that they would attack your cat, or get into the house and bite a baby. Why would they not - living in an urban environment where people feed them, wittingly or unwittingly, has made them fearless? The situation with urban foxes has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the hunt ban.

 

[Xlthlx]

The situation with urban foxes has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the hunt ban.

Very true but I haven;t seen much from the pro hunting lobby to suggest it has

 

[Binkle&Flip]

In interesting point. What percentage of the allegations against hunts are triuthful do you reckon?

No idea but then reported crime in general even with arrest leads to a small percentage of actual court cases per crime committed.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Growing number being caught.

Um it's hardly going to go down is it? Unless they get let off on repeal.

I believe the figure atm if people prosecuted for actual fox/stag hunting is 11

11 people out of 50,000 that hunt prosecuted in 6 years that's a ration of about 2/50,000 per year.

Compare that to 2/ 650 MPs sent to prison in a year for far more serious offenses.

Hunters are considerably more law abiding than a lot of other sections of society.

Ideal. That in no way should suggest that crimes committed should not be dealt with by the authorities hopefully.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

B&F - your whole raison d'etre on this forum would appear to be attacking those who in the words of Alec Swan....

I realise you do not need to have an equestrian interest to register on the forum but the question presents itself why if you dont like the topics posted in the Hunting Forum are you preservering in this den of inequity and obviously horrible people?

I am sure there is somewhere out there as Alec suggested that would benefit much better from your enormous talents

In fairness unlike yourself my posts since joining the forum have not only been made on the hunting threads as I do not have any agenda
Far from apologise for my attention being held by one particular very interesting and extremely politely discussed topic ( blocking of fox holes), I am pleased to have been a small part of the debate.
Unfortunately I also fail to claim to or actually see any enormous talent that I can share with other more needy people but if you do get stuck anywhere else on the forum I will be more than happy to bail you out

 

[Alec Swan]

B&F,

if you really insist on acting, as a B_F, then perhaps you may benefit from an acceptance, that arguing, and using semantics, as a tool which, whilst leading to your own enjoyment, will also lead to the frustration of those who would hope that you may reach an understanding. Would you see that as a pointless exercise?

I suspect that Rosiefronfelen may well be right, in that you are a troll. You and I will have no further contact, which whilst that may be of no loss to you, will save me from attempting to inculcate knowledge, where there is patently, a lack of accepting space. Whether others choose to join me, will be their choice. Coventry.

Alec.

 

[Fiagai]

In fairness unlike yourself my posts since joining the forum have not only been made on the hunting threads as I do not have any agenda ...)

Check again all your posts you are as Alec rightly said, making an agenda of berating "those who take part in, and adhere to the acceptable conditions, attached to a rural pursuit. Do you have any equestrian interests bar bothering those that do? So far you have frequently posted, misquoted and disingenuous information.

I agree with Rosiefronfelen and Alec that you are in fact a Troll (and not the humourous type either)

There is of course a place for trolls...

 

[Binkle&Flip]

B&F,

if you really insist on acting, as a B_F, then perhaps you may benefit from an acceptance, that arguing, and using semantics, as a tool which, whilst leading to your own enjoyment, will also lead to the frustration of those who would hope that you may reach an understanding. Would you see that as a pointless exercise?

I suspect that Rosiefronfelen may well be right, in that you are a troll. You and I will have no further contact, which whilst that may be of no loss to you, will save me from attempting to inculcate knowledge, where there is patently, a lack of accepting space. Whether others choose to join me, will be their choice. Coventry.

Alec.

It will of course be no great loss whatsoever if you keep posting to me with your Fiagai account. Far from being a troll or whatever I am pro legal hunting post ban and others are pro hunting pre ban. It is clear that far from wishing for a Countryside Alliance those that wish for a return to hunting pre ban will criticise other forms of hunting and other methods and continue to allienate anybody who doesnt tow their line. In all honesty I have no need to discuss certain issues as real hunting continues and will not stop as it is legal, I simply choose to post in reply to others if I wish.
Now I am off to Coventry leaving you in the past. B&F

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Check again all your posts you are as Alec rightly said, making an agenda of berating "those who take part in, and adhere to the acceptable conditions, attached to a rural pursuit. Do you have any equestrian interests bar bothering those that do? So far you have frequently posted, misquoted and disingenuous information.

I agree with Rosiefronfelen and Alec that you are in fact a Troll (and not the humourous type either)

There is of course a place for trolls...[/QUOTE

"as Alec rightly said" You are Alec

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Who is Alec in your eyes then?

 

[Fiagai]

It will of course be no great loss whatsoever if you keep posting to me with your Fiagai account.... I simply choose to post in reply to others if I wish Now I am off to Coventry leaving you in the past. B&F

..."as Alec rightly said" You are Alec

B&F - I had no intention of replying to the rubbish you post again...however on behalf of a fellow poster I make this reply

I have no relation whatsover to Alec and never have. I do not know Alec in real life. The closest I have got to Alec is respecting his polite and reasoned posts in this discusion. A discussion in which you have prevaricated and continued in making insidious and disingenuous allegations.

The moderators will be able to verify that Alec and myself are seperate posters. So I have reported you for your untruthfull postings and allegations.

You have yet to demonstrate you have any equestrain interests bar hanaguing those that do.

Enjoy Coventry!

 

[Binkle&Flip]

You have told on me? I think it best to ignore the three of you if adult debate upsets you so much

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Who is Alec in your eyes then?

As I believe you are a bit of a trouble maker I shall not respond

 

[Fiagai]

You have told on me? I think it best to ignore the three of you if adult debate upsets you so much

No B&F I reported you for your untruthfull postings and allegations.

And so you admit there is three of us now! Backtracking perhaps? What about the two you accussed before then? If you think nobody likes your childlike behaviour then its best the adults leave you to it....

 

[Binkle&Flip]

No B&F I reported you for your untruthfull postings and allegations.

And so you admit there is three of us now! Backtracking perhaps? What about the two you accussed before then? If you think nobody likes your childlike behaviour then its best the adults leave you to it....

Ooooops, that was almost a complete edit of your original post

 

[Fiagai]

Is it just me or are foxes trying to tell us something. since the ban came in and before we have been telling people that a ban on fox hunting will cause problems. and now the foxes are showing themselves that they want to go hunting and for the ban to be revoked. ive lost count of the number of cats killed (including 1 i found in the field half eaten the other day) people bitten and kids attacked in the past few months they are making a point and if they carry on at this rate then they will have the ban swapped for us.

Wild animals that lose their fear of domestic situations can quickly become a serious nuisance eg people feeding brown bears in the US or dingos in Australia.
At the end of the day hunting is natural - even foxes do it! However where they become accustomed to finding food adjacent to or from people they are going to become problematic especially where suitable controls are no longer utilised.