Free hoof care course

Lovely idea, education for horse owners is great, but reading the info I was a little disturbed to see Dr Strasser described as 'one of the greats'......


Quote. [On which teachings is this course based?
The originators of modern barefoot hoof care were Dr. Hiltrud Strasser and Jaime Jackson. One developed her theories in Europe, independent from the other who developed his theories in the American West. They briefly met and exchanged notes. Then they once again went their separate ways. All of this happened in the late 80’s and the 90’s. Today a lot of hoof care gurus spring up and take great pains to explain that they found their own truth long before these two Greats.
Equine Soundness is not one of them. We learned from a lot of sources, one could say we learned from all of them as far as their material is available.]
 
Well, I've emailed them my details. :)

Might be a useful course, might not be but hey it's free so can't really complain.

The originators of modern barefoot hoof care were Dr. Hiltrud Strasser and Jaime Jackson
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I've heard about her but can't remember the details. Anyone want to enlighten me? :)
 
horserider said:
Lovely idea, education for horse owners is great, but reading the info I was a little disturbed to see Dr Strasser described as 'one of the greats'......


Quote. [On which teachings is this course based?
The originators of modern barefoot hoof care were Dr. Hiltrud Strasser and Jaime Jackson. One developed her theories in Europe, independent from the other who developed his theories in the American West. They briefly met and exchanged notes. Then they once again went their separate ways. All of this happened in the late 80’s and the 90’s. Today a lot of hoof care gurus spring up and take great pains to explain that they found their own truth long before these two Greats.
Equine Soundness is not one of them. We learned from a lot of sources, one could say we learned from all of them as far as their material is available.]
Click to expand...

Actually, I think she deserves to be a "great". Her methods were certainly controversial but the science behind it and the studies she has done is really valuable even if some of it is more 'what NOT to to do"! She saved many a horses life even though some were not and suffered for it but we learn from this and I don't know about her modern work but I am sure it has evolved a lot. She is a vet after all and used surgical methods which we consider barbaric. J. Jackson uses a slow methodological approach, still applying the same science, but not in the same way. So, I think her contribution is certainly worth recognition of some sort.

How come they have not mentioned KC La Pierre or Bob Bowker or even Pete Ramey, Gene Ovnicek... I'm sure there are more...

I think you have to read each persons theory to have a good objective on the whole science of barefoot.

Infact, I just googled 'barefoot hoof pioneers' just to see if there was actually a list!

There is: http://www.thehorseshoof.com/experts.html



I think it would be useful to sign up and see!
 
thanks for the link. Will take a look.
Well Dr Strasser could certainly be described as something but I don't think "great" is the correct word.
Perhaps someone whose trimmers set barefoot back by many years? Who drew the attention of the welfare agencies? Who drew blood as a matter of course? Who produced feet that "pancaked" when the essential hoof structure was removed. Or perhaps for the constant abscessing her methods caused. Perhaps her methods should just be remembered for the poor horses that were lamed? or we could remember her for the guilty owners who were so upset when their horses feet had been butchered.

Forgive me if I don't subscribe to "great". Unfortunately I saw far too many unhappy horses with mutilated feet.
 
In hoof care, as well as in anything, it is important to engage critical thinking and never to follow anyone over a cliff.

I'm too 'young' to know what happened at that time but, Strasser taught us that:p

I'm not suggesting anyone learn how to trim based on the course I've mentioned. Just use it as a starting point for learning.

Then use that learning to question your farrier/trimmer if you are not happy with what you see in your horse's feet:)
 
paddy555 said:
thanks for the link. Will take a look.
Well Dr Strasser could certainly be described as something but I don't think "great" is the correct word.
Perhaps someone whose trimmers set barefoot back by many years? Who drew the attention of the welfare agencies? Who drew blood as a matter of course? Who produced feet that "pancaked" when the essential hoof structure was removed. Or perhaps for the constant abscessing her methods caused. Perhaps her methods should just be remembered for the poor horses that were lamed? or we could remember her for the guilty owners who were so upset when their horses feet had been butchered.

Forgive me if I don't subscribe to "great". Unfortunately I saw far too many unhappy horses with mutilated feet.
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Well, I see your point Paddy, but she is a surgeon and surgeons do semingly "barbaric" things. I do not for one second believe she wanted to hurt those horses. She wanted to correct pathological lameness issues by applying her theories. Those horses were destined for the gun but she actually did save them.

According to the link, some of her "followers" who were not trained by her carried her method out on horses and this is how the controversy came about. They used the word "Strasser" and it became associated with her even though the actual method was not applied properly! No wonder that "trim" caused controversy. It should not have been used by just anybody in non-clinical surroundings. It was these people that gave barefoot a bad name. Not Dr Strasser.
 
tallyho! said:
Well, I see your point Paddy, but she is a surgeon and surgeons do semingly "barbaric" things. I do not for one second believe she wanted to hurt those horses. She wanted to correct pathological lameness issues by applying her theories. Those horses were destined for the gun but she actually did save them.

According to the link, some of her "followers" who were not trained by her carried her method out on horses and this is how the controversy came about. They used the word "Strasser" and it became associated with her even though the actual method was not applied properly! No wonder that "trim" caused controversy. It should not have been used by just anybody in non-clinical surroundings. It was these people that gave barefoot a bad name. Not Dr Strasser.
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Surgeons tend to offer pain relief and don't leave their patients to die of heart failure. Surgeons are not barbaric, except for those in the WW11 concentration camps perhaps. The strasser trim has been banned by the WHW and the Laminitis trust following successful prosecutions in the UK. Chillingly, it seems history has been rewritten by the Barefoot movement, but some of us are old enough to remember the articles written highlighting the welfare issues when Dr Strasser first came into the public domain.
 
Keeping an open mind is important but basic learning is often a foundation that sets us up for the future and future thinking. Once we have 'understood' something it can be hard to let it go.

Dr Strasser did teach much about horses management and how important movement is for hoof development etc.

I recently witnessed a Strasser full or clinic trim performed by a Strasser registered practitioner who had just been to her compulsory update with Dr Strasser. This trim was not accompanied by after care advice and left all horses sore. Luckily the owner had pads and a sand area for them. Their hooves have since grown back much as they were previously.
I urge anyone if they see their trimmer removing live sole and cutting bars and heels with knives (two knives are used) into live sole to stop what is happening.
My understanding is that according to Dr Strasser hoof wall has to be a certain angle, hooves MUST have concavity and the coffin bone MUST be ground parallel etc. The hooves were fashioned to fit this model with no thought to the horse's comfort or allowing the horse to grow a better hoof or hoof support following this drastic trim.
There are still Strasser practitioners out there performing these 'clinic' trims although many seem to have moved away from this in a home environment and learned that this invasive trim isn't good for horses. I believe if this trim is to be performed at all it should be done in a controlled environment with Vet supervision. Be warned.
This trimmer truly believed she was doing the best thing for the horses... :(

To add. This was outside UK.
 
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tallyho! said:
Well, I see your point Paddy, but she is a surgeon and surgeons do semingly "barbaric" things. I do not for one second believe she wanted to hurt those horses. She wanted to correct pathological lameness issues by applying her theories. Those horses were destined for the gun but she actually did save them.

According to the link, some of her "followers" who were not trained by her carried her method out on horses and this is how the controversy came about. They used the word "Strasser" and it became associated with her even though the actual method was not applied properly! No wonder that "trim" caused controversy. It should not have been used by just anybody in non-clinical surroundings. It was these people that gave barefoot a bad name. Not Dr Strasser.
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The people who mained horses using her methods were STRASSER QUALIFIED TRIMMERS. ie strasser hoofcare professionals who had undertaken a long training course and who were trained by Dr S herself.
They did not just use the word "Strasser" they were certified by her as being qualified using her methods. The controversy did not come about by unqualified people trying to use her methods. Few unqualified people applied a Strasser trim as it is quite hard work to do so and was way beyond most amateur trimmers.
So the people causing the problems were her qualified trimmers. They qualified after learning her methods. They religiously applied her methods. The same problems happened in the US. I know exactly what she taught them as I discussed it in very great detail with several of them. I was around at the time. I picked up the pieces for some of these poor owners. The trimmers did what they were taught. She taught them.

Very difficult to see to my mind that the blame lies anywhere other than Dr Strasser.

As for vets etc sometimes having to do barbaric things to achieve a worthwhile end then I simply don't see that was necessary either. The horses we are talking about were terminally ill from laminitis, navicular type problems. Whether with some of those horses humane destruction would be a kinder option I don't know but if not there are a lot of equally successful ways to deal with them that don't involve barbaric methods. Laminitic horses are dealt with successfully without imposing further pain on them. That is quite common practice. As a vet surely she should have gone down that route.

You make an imnportant point,Oberon, about engaging in critical thinking. The problem is, and certainly was at that time, that many people simply don't and didn't know enough to be able to do this.
Strasser was a vet. Her management theories were similar to those advocated by Jackson. Most people saw no problem with that. It was a more natural way to keep horses.
As one qualified Strasser trimmer told me "her good ideas on managment didn't make it over into the trim".
People thought she was a vet, they didn't know enough about trimming barefoot horses to be able to criticise her trim. As she was a vet she must be right.

I cannot see any problem in the people running this course being ex Strasser qualified trimmers. Many highly thought of trimmers in the US especially came from a Strasser background. It probably makes them better trimmers and instructors. They know what can go wrong.

It is important IMHO that we don't perpetuate a myth of Strasser being this brilliant vet struggling to be a pioneer of barefoot but we look at the chaos and pain to horses that resulted from that era. This was not some romantic past. That may have been intended but it turned out to be butchery. Perhaps that is how it should be remembered more accurately.
 
paddy555 said:
As one qualified Strasser trimmer told me "her good ideas on managment didn't make it over into the trim".
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This is very true it seems. However from the little I gleaned about the thinking, Strasser's theories are at odds with modern thinking in some vital aspects. It all sounds good until you see that it all has to be achieved in one trim!

paddy555 said:
I cannot see any problem in the people running this course being ex Strasser qualified trimmers. Many highly thought of trimmers in the US especially came from a Strasser background. It probably makes them better trimmers and instructors. They know what can go wrong.
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With the inclusion of Br Bowker in their advisors I would hope so. :)

Also I agree some knowledge is needed to engage in critical thinking usefully.
 
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I did post to try and highlight people to a free course on hoof care.

But I suspect the Strasser bunfight on this thread will scare people away.....

Just to reiterate I am NOT suggesting anyone learn how to trim from this course (in fact I disagree with their example of trimming - far too aggressive IMO, I prefer a slower approach with micro changes) but as an introduction to hooves to start off learning.
 
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Oberon said:
I did post to try and highlight people to a free course on hoof care.
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I know and I am genuinely sorry for dampening your good intentions.

I used to sit on the fence a bit but since I saw the full trim and heard some of the thinking I no longer sit on the fence.
 
horserider said:
Surgeons tend to offer pain relief and don't leave their patients to die of heart failure. Surgeons are not barbaric, except for those in the WW11 concentration camps perhaps. The strasser trim has been banned by the WHW and the Laminitis trust following successful prosecutions in the UK. Chillingly, it seems history has been rewritten by the Barefoot movement, but some of us are old enough to remember the articles written highlighting the welfare issues when Dr Strasser first came into the public domain.
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No no, I get it and I am also old enough to remember what happened and remember the cases.

I still think her broader work deserves merit, I don't agree on her clinic trim, however I think what she has offered should be taken into consideration to learn from and not be dismissed.

As for surgeons not being barbaric... well you should ask to go and see the orthopeadic dept - yes painkillers are available and they were to Strasser at her clinic. I do believe she used pain relief. Surgeons do let people die of heart failure - thats how my grandad died.

History has not been re-written - it has been learnt from and people are moving on and not dwelling on the past unlike you.
 
amandap said:
I know and I am genuinely sorry for dampening your good intentions.

I used to sit on the fence a bit but since I saw the full trim and heard some of the thinking I no longer sit on the fence.
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I appreciate that.

But the course is not run by Strasser. No one is suggesting trimming like Strasser.

It's just a free hoof care course (and yes, I'd prefer if it was run by Pete Ramey;))

All I'm hoping for is anyone not happy with their horse's hooves will start looking around from this and find a way to start asking questions, rather than (as I used to do) say, "My farrier knows best and says my horse is fine" when things are anything but..
 
I have sent off an email for an invitation to the course. It sounds interesting and educational. Many thanks Oberon.

I am more than capable of deciding whether the trim they suggest is ok with me or not. If it is too invasive then I will disagree with it and hopefully get to discuss why with other students.
 
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