Freshly Qualified Vets - Do you trust them? *Rant Warning*

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canteron

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I have a very good senior horse vet .... but in the practice they like to have a couple of freshly qualified vets, who stay for a couple of years and when they ask for a pay rise don't get it so inevitably move on.

Having been with these vets now for 16 years and unless I specifically ask for senior vet I get a vet who inevitably says box rest, blood test and expensive drugs whatever the problem! I inevitably feel that I am paying for their lack of experience (I am looking primarily for quality of life for the animal and to put it through as little stress as possible) and often feel that I end up paying for call out, time, etc, when the senior vet would just give me pragmatic advice over the phone and problem would be solved. Over the years I have been an extremely polite, good, loyal and I suspect profitable customer.

I freely know that everyone has to gain experience, but get a little bit fed up of not really trusting the vet.

Does anyone else have the issue and do they just insist on talking to senior vet (and get away with it?).

PS Just so you don't think I am moaning, have had lameness diagnosed on the wrong leg, vet in tears as they couldn't solve something, vet in flip flops trying to inject known vet phobic horse, vet suggesting extended box rest and major drugs when in fact it was water retention and just needed a good walk out, etc, etc, etc.
 
My practice has hired a newly qualified vet - my lovely experienced vet who is the only one I will use brings her on call-outs with her. She introduces her to clients, tells clients she's qualified then gets her to do things with her there. I don't always like it because my horse is the sensible one who gets the practice injections while the experienced vet does the vet-phobic horses but I can't really say anything because I know my experienced vet had to get her experience somewhere and new vet is really lovely and I have never once seen her dressed in flip-flops!
 
We have had a similar situation in the past. Horse (big TB who could be a bit sharp) with a cut on his hind cannon which we knew would get infected and blow up the next day. He was 2/10 lame on it but he was a woose.
Vet turns up stands well back refuses to touch leg because horse is "jumpy" and says "does not need stiching it will be fine". 14yo daughter says "yes we know it does not need stitching but how about bute and antibiotics." Is he lame? was the reply. So 14yo trots horse up - 2/10 lame. Vet says "sound"!!! After an argument he left some antibiotics and we had some bute lying around anyway. Horse was fine. We hosed and bandaged leg after he left:(

Nowadays unless it is an absolute life or death problem I specify exactly which vet I would like to see. To be fair they have never argued. However it can mean an extra days wait so if it is colic or horse is on 3 legs then of course we would take the first available on call vet.
 
I usually ask specifically for my usual vet. The newly qual vet came out to look at my friends lame horse the other week and left basically saying she didnt have a clue as to what was wrong :confused: She said she "hoped" it was an absess but couldnt find one or any signs of one!! So she left saying that she would have to come back the next day to remove the shoe (she didnt have the equipment!) and see if there was one under the shoe but if she found nothing he would have to go in for x rays ... oh yes and she gave her some bute to!! Needless to say my friend cancelled the appointment for the next day, got the physio out and it turned out he had pulled muscles so she just saved herself a good few hundred quid and the pony is fixed!! Same vet came to vaccinate my mare a few days later and my mare took a reaction to it. Sight of injection was in a lump and she couldnt bend her neck or walk properly, maybe a coincidence that it happened when done by a new vet but i think il ask for my experienced vet next time!!
 
I actually find newly qualified vets more open to suggestions and 'out of the box' thinking - the stuffy old vets round here are the ones suggesting box rest and bute - the newer qualified ones in my experience have been much more open minded about things!!
 
In all honesty a newly qualified vet tends to be extremely careful, looks things up, asks when unsure, and being newly qualified, is generally up to date with all the latest treatments and advancements.
 
I am totally happy to deal with a newly qualified vet in a non emergency situation. I would be prepared to ask for the senior vet's opinion on the phone if I am not convinced.

Hasn't happened so far and I believe that the vets in the practice I use do have a run through all the cases each day anyway. Well put it this way whoever I talk to seems to know all about any problems!
 
I always ask for the vets i feel i can trust, if not available i ask who is to be sent, depending on who it is and what the issue is i might wait another day.
I once had a less experienced vet who thought my horse had broken a leg, with a nasty open wound, that asked me to x tie him overnight to see how he was in the morning !!! He couldnt move and was obviously in shock.
That wasnt an option for me my horse deserved better than that, and i asked for the x ray to be done that day, she wasnt to chuffed at being told i wasnt happy with her plan. i asked for her to speak to either of the 2 vets i trust with my guys as her suggestion for treatment wasnt an option. The other vet was there within an hour,quite literally moved her to the side, my horse was x rayed, given pain relief and i had the results in about 2 hours.
I was lucky it wasnt broken, but i couldnt have left him overnight with a posssible break in obvious shock and pain and feel i had done my best for him
 
I don't think its a question of newly qualified or not, just how good they are. I currently have a superb vet who is youngish but is excellent at making an accurate diagnosis. I've seen supposedly "senior vets" from other practices do a shocking job, being old doesn't make you good.
 
I had a newly qualified vet complete the castration on my homebred - unfortunately it went very wrong and she 'forgot' to inject him to numb him first! He actually turned over on himself when she made the first cut. She told me to check him at 6pm then leave him for the night. To me he didnt seem right but as he is my first colt to be castrated I agreed. However at 9pm went down to check him and he had a prolapse (basically his insides had worked their way out and were coming out as he was staggering about!) Was one of the most terrifying experiences in my life. Senior vet came out and stitched him back up (it had happened on the side she had forgotten to numb so was x5 bigger cut than the other side) Vet said if I hadnt of checked him he would of died in the night :( :(
He then caught an infection and had to have antis and turned into a difficult youngster to handle as he was in pain :( I still struggle with wormers as he had to be syringed.
Got a lovely bill for over £1000 when originally quoted £350 due to everything that went wrong. I did challenge this and after lots of back and forth and threats of court they did reduce it to about £600.
I have since changed vets and they are all great :)
 
Despite the diagnosis I didnt get that far on my last visit.

She turned up with hip slung trousers displying all next weeks washing took one look at Stan and said that will need sedating before I do anything !

She didnt even go in the stable, she was back in her car in quick sticks and a very stern email sent to the vets from me informed them of my disgust.

A couple of years ago another young woman came out and she was a gem, she had a horse herself and I do think that this makes all the difference. What good is sending someone who is happy to incoulate a pink poodle to half a ton of horse flesh the vets should get a grip and sort out the wheat from the chaff.
 
I always have the senior partner as he lives at the farm next door and runs clinics there so I can go to him and not have a call out charge!

However he has had more inexperienced vets with him or cover for him when he's away. One wanted to do a biopsy on what he thought was a melanoma to be certain. By the time the appointment was booked, senior vet was beck, took one look, said "yes it's definitely a melanoma, a biopsy will only make it grow more so we'll leave it." 6 years later it's grown a tiny but but not much. Had he not been there then it would have put the horse through more stress, cost a fortune and made the problem worse.

Unless it's an emergency, I'll wait until he's around now.
 
Not sure if it is a 'how long you've been out of vet school' thing, or just some vets are better than others! For jabs I'll have any qualified vet, for a particular reason (non emergency) then I request our usual vet as he has seen them regularly and knows their history. In an emergency I would have the closest!

That said, recently when vet (not our usual one) was out for jabs he brought a vet student out with him and introduced her. Then handed her the jab. Err, no! I know they have to practise, but I would have liked to be asked first just as manners, and the horse she was about to poke is a funny old thing about female vets (sadly in our experience some have dithered a bit which has had the mare quaking about the scary thing that must be scaring the vet!) and needs firm but gentle handling otherwise she can go from soft old lamb to a horse who is rather alot to handle and who won't think twice about going up to escape the situation. The poor student was bricking it so I really didn't think it a very good idea and so asked if I could have the vet for that mare. I would have preferred the vet for them both, but felt bad so suggested the student jab my mare instead as bless her she is a stoical old thing and if the student gave her a bit of a pinch she wouldn't move a muscle. I'm afraid she just didn't inspire faith as she didn't say hi, stood there quaking, and then the vet had to describe how she should give an injection. It bothered me as I would have liked advance warning so I didn't feel like a bady!
 
ThePony said:
That said, recently when vet (not our usual one) was out for jabs he brought a vet student out with him and introduced her. Then handed her the jab. Err, no! I know they have to practise, but I would have liked to be asked first just as manners, and the horse she was about to poke is a funny old thing about female vets (sadly in our experience some have dithered a bit which has had the mare quaking about the scary thing that must be scaring the vet!) and needs firm but gentle handling otherwise she can go from soft old lamb to a horse who is rather alot to handle and who won't think twice about going up to escape the situation. The poor student was bricking it so I really didn't think it a very good idea and so asked if I could have the vet for that mare. I would have preferred the vet for them both, but felt bad so suggested the student jab my mare instead as bless her she is a stoical old thing and if the student gave her a bit of a pinch she wouldn't move a muscle. I'm afraid she just didn't inspire faith as she didn't say hi, stood there quaking, and then the vet had to describe how she should give an injection. It bothered me as I would have liked advance warning so I didn't feel like a bady!
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Thats terrible, we had the vet out recently and they were very clear and polite about asking for consent of the vet student to examine and inject the horse. They said they aren't allowed to do it without the owner's express consent. I wasn't the owner, just a friend so the student didn't do anything despite the fact I'm sure the owner wouldn't have minded.
 
I dont think its is a new vet thing as i had the senior vet of a very well known vet school tell me to put my 5yo down there and then! Changed to another vet who dealt with him superbly and he now has over £400 BS money on his card, so i think it really is luck of the draw and if you find a vet who you are happy with stick with them, and ask for them each time you make a call.
Q
 
Quadro said:
I dont think its is a new vet thing as i had the senior vet of a very well known vet school tell me to put my 5yo down there and then! Changed to another vet who dealt with him superbly and he now has over £400 BS money on his card, so i think it really is luck of the draw and if you find a vet who you are happy with stick with them, and ask for them each time you make a call.
Q
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Agreed
 
There was one vet, who has just left the practice, that I wouldn't have witihin a million miles of any of my horses - not even for a routine vaccination. The day she turned up so drunk she nearly drove into the wall, wobbled out of the car and reeking of alcohol I sent her back, phoned the practice and got a different vet out - she way supposed to be putting a cathetor in a horse for a 6 day course of anti-bios.

There is such a thing as being professional - she really, really was not! Not by a long shot!
 
kittykatcat said:
I actually find newly qualified vets more open to suggestions and 'out of the box' thinking - the stuffy old vets round here are the ones suggesting box rest and bute - the newer qualified ones in my experience have been much more open minded about things!!
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I am with you Kittykatcat.
Fany had an issue with her legs usual vet tried everything for months, nothing worked. Newly qualified vet came and sorted in one visit. We now know exactly what to do, when to do it and don't have huge vet bills for repeated unnecessary treatments and visits! So yes, I value newly qualified as well as experienced vets.

Also she was the only vet who has been able to treat Captain without him being an a*se, she was so quiet, gentle and did not know his reputation! So wasn't scared of him, hence did not scare him.

OP- if you are unhappy can you change vets? ( I know this can be an issue if on a yard which deals with a particular surgery) or make it plain in your request who you want out?
FDC
 
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When we used a smaller practice, the senior vet (now sadly retired) always asked us how his newly qualified assistants had gone on. Some were fine, some needed more practice/confidence and others were downright rude. The senior vet always came out to anything potentially serious.
The senior vet wrote to thank us for helping to educate his newly qualified assistants as he retired.
Now that we have gone back to a bigger practice, there is one experienced vet who we won't have on the yard, except in case of dire emergency and nobody else available. One of his colleagues, years ago, told us that as we were paying the bill, there was no reason why we shouldn't specify which vet we wanted to see.
I definitely prefer to have the horse vets, rather than their colleagues, whatever the reason for the call out.
I know one horse-owner who has her preferred vet's personal phone number and if she does ring the practice refuses even to speak to the receptionist.
 
yep :)

i just tell them on the phone not to send an idiot ,i have chased one vet off the yard before and chucked £200 away as it was a waste of my time and money

they now know before i even ask not to send one of "those" to me as i will just not have it ,i tried the polite route as i'd say "my horse doesn't like men please send one of the girls" but now i just ask what vet they intend to send and if its something that can wait i will ask for a vet i trust rather than waste my money

my horse has had probs and has been referred to another practice 70 mile away and there was a vet there that i was not having any were near my horse (among other things "vet" dropped sterile equipment on the dirty floor and was going to use it anyway instead of fetching a new/clean one :eek: ) oh and he was deff not a young collage leaver ;)

its your money ,your horse and you are the client and have every right to ask for someone else if your not happy
 
My vet calls me if he cannot get here and if it is something routine like inoculations will ask if I mind one of the youngsters coming down.
I never do as they have to learn and I am willing to teach them!

Most are lacking in confidence when they meet someone new and I suspect that they have heard an exaggerated description of me!

One, a young Aussie came to put a couple of stitches in one horse and she was brilliant with her manner, no nonsense and did a neat job. I had a ewe lambing in one of the loose pens and she (the ewe) was having difficulty. I was going to get the lamb away and the vet asked if she could do it. I told her that she could but there was no way I was paying for her services!
She lambed the ewe and said that it made her feel at home as she hadn't lambed a ewe in a couple of years.

Another, went to inject a filly and was saying to the horse "You are not going to like this!" and was approaching the filly with trepidation. I stopped her and said that if she was going to have a negative attitude then not to bother as the horse would sense it.
One of the older horses decided with her attitude to mess around and when I corrected him by jerking his halter rope and telling him off verbally, she was shocked and amazed that the horse stood like a rock.

At university they are not taught how to handle horses, only what to do to them.
 
No sorry but I won't let newly qualified vets do much with my horses until I've watched how they handle my horses. I have a lot of horses and I've seen some real ham-fisted newly qualified vets who can't even give a simple injection. I have told some of them off I'm afraid and stopped them from doing anything further with my horses :o I've had to take the vaccination syringe from them and injected my horses themselves when one quite obviously didn't have the first clue about how to do such a simple thing as injecting. I've even asked one to leave the stable when she wielded an uncovered needle around the place. I've had needles break in my horses necks, uncalled for aggressiveness and general uselessness from almost every newly qualified vets over the many years I've had horses so now I only let senior vets deal with my horses and in both of the equine vet practices I use nowadays they are all and only long-term qualified vets.
 
I always ask for senior vet as mine is fab. He really thinks outside box and is keen to resolve things on the spot without expensive tests unless they are absolutely vital.
 
I fully understand that everyone needs to gain experience and I have had good and bad experience of newly qualified vets but I always ask for my vet Liz to come to Baby - Itrust her, she says things straight and will tell you off if doing something wrong but she adores respects horses and is also compassionate to - so I always ask for her but love having the new vets along with her :)
 
When we moved thirty miles away from our last house I asked our vet Andrew Miller from Lockerbie if he would still come to us for planned events eg castration, scanning, xrays etc. I was delighted when he said yes as he is the best horse vet around Dumfriesshire. Never let me down.
For emergencies we use the local vets and they can be a disaster! A couple of the female vets are large animal experienced and the senior partner and his sons are ok but blimey!! one of the girls couldnt get blood out of a very patient pony. She must have tried for twenty minutes jabbing the poor lad. In and out around a hundred times till my patience ran out and I told her to go and send someone who could.! The same female unfortunately was on duty when my elderly cat had to be PTS. She ballsed that up too!! My OH who wasnt particularly a fan of the cat was in tears too as she strung it out so long. I have asked time and again of this practice if they will scan mares, or come and do x rays. Nope.
I had a colt foal who impacted on day three after successfully passing meconium. Three visits in 24hrs later the foal was no better and they were now suggesting referral to the Clyde Vet group who are better equipped. I refused as gut instinct was telling me to turn him out with his mum and exercise would stimulate the gut. I was right. We call this foal Pele, which is short for pelican as he has a huge bill.!!!
 
my vet qualified in 2002 so is not exactly 'fresh' but I trust him completely, he was originally with the practice i was registered with but has not long started out on his own so i registered with him too. he has a great attitude with the horses, even my friends flighty cob who had to have chiffney in for his last jabs with another vet didn't even flinch when J did his recent tet/flu.
I judge them on their own ability rather than how long they have been qualified,
 
I love my senior partner he is brilliant instinctively knows what's going on and then does the tests to prove it but he doesn't run up bills and is rarely wrong. He listens to my views and we work out a solution together. The other partner is a lovely guy but he doesn't listen a runs up huge bills for no reason. Last yr for a emergency I had the new vet he is fab and one day will be as good as the senior partner, so if it's a non emergency I request either the senior pnt or the new vet, in a emergency I'll have anyone!
 
Newly qualified may lack experience but they do know the latest in treatments. My vet is now no longer newly qualified but becoming experienced. She is also a horse owner so is happy to be tough when required. Takes experience to gain experience

I do remember though having a newly qualified vet come out to my horse who had reared up and sat down and wouldn't get up. She diagnosed a broken femur - I was so in shock I was horrible to her and wouldn't believe her and insisted that another more experienced vet come out.
Afterwards I felt terrible and contacted her and apologised.

I'd prefer it if the newly qualified accompanied the more experienced vet but this is not always going to be possible.
 
kittykatcat said:
I actually find newly qualified vets more open to suggestions and 'out of the box' thinking - the stuffy old vets round here are the ones suggesting box rest and bute - the newer qualified ones in my experience have been much more open minded about things!!
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joeanne said:
In all honesty a newly qualified vet tends to be extremely careful, looks things up, asks when unsure, and being newly qualified, is generally up to date with all the latest treatments and advancements.
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totally agree with the above 2 statement
 
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