From ‘Sat on’ to ‘Super’ – the Ideal Training Programme?

Kelly Marks

Kelly Marks

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From ‘Sat on’ to ‘Super’ – the Ideal Training Programme?

I’m writing an article (as above) and would love to have people’s opinions/experiences re. what are the key points they feel make up the ideal training programme for a young horse for his first six months after he’s first ridden safely out of an enclosed area.

Would you continue any ground work? Would you do all hacking? All schooling? What sort of schooling do you feel is most relevant? What sort of hacking do you feel is ideal? What have been your greatest lessons - good or bad?

Is there any producer who impresses you the most? What do you feel is the biggest mistake people make? Have you found any schooling aids that are particularly useful – or particularly harmful?

I would love to be able to quote people when appropriate and if I don’t have your real name I’ll use your log in name or you could pm me if you think you have said something particularly brilliant(!)

The best part of writing is listening to others views and really thinking in depth about a subject. I hope I've posted this on the right section of this forum.
 
I went to a demostration by Gerd Heuschmann on Saturday at Vale View in Leicestershire. It was organised by Gillian Higgins (of Horses Inside Out fame) and I can honestly say that how he presented training techniques looking from a biomechanice p.o.v and then actually showing how lateral work can really help to train and affect how a horse moves etc was REALLY interesting!
I brought copies of Gillian's books and DVD on the day and I have ordered Gerd's off the internet....

from my point of view, they both showed fantastic ways or training, schooling and achieveing fantastic results!
 
Funnily enough it was the Gerd H demo you talk of that sparked of this idea for an article! I've seen him before and I asked a friend to go and write notes on this one as I couldn't make it. She was really impressed. His top tips would be getting them going forwards before anything else also about feeling their back swing and working on lateral work early.

Funnily enough as a child without formal training as I was muddling along bringing jumping ponies on I used to teach them 'off the leg' from the ground first as it made everything else re. the riding so much easier.
 
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He was very good- and I completley agree that "leaving the horses front end/head alone in order to encourage it to use it's back end and dorsal muscles etc" is very good- there are far far too many riders that are concerned with how (they think) their horse 'should' look, even from an early age; this more often than not (as Gerd explained) provides problems for the future as the horses literally cannot use themselves properly and become twisted and crooked- simply through careless and inexperienced riding techniques.

Leave their front ends alone- and by making the horse use itself (and the powerhouse that are its back legs and if used and strengthened correctly, its neck/dorsal muscles), the rest will follow as it finds itself being able to work freely and effectively.

:)
 
IHK said:
From ‘Sat on’ to ‘Super’ – the Ideal Training Programme?

what are the key points they feel make up the ideal training programme for a young horse for his first six months after he’s first ridden safely out of an enclosed area.

Ideally the training starts well BEFORE he's sat on. Our own home-bred foals are inevitably far easier to back & ride away because of early handling from day 1. It continues through their first 3 years - they are fed in the field from a tractor or land-rover - so traffic is rarely a problem for them when they strt hacking (other than bicycles!:rolleyes:)

Would you continue any ground work? Would you do all hacking? All schooling? What sort of schooling do you feel is most relevant? What sort of hacking do you feel is ideal?

Ground work should be an on going part of any horse's education but we don't do a LOT once they're hacking. Once they CAN hack they primarily hack - with 10 minutes in the school a couple of times a week just to gently work on flexion, stretching down etc. We have safe woodland hacking over the road which introduces puddles, banks, etc safely - and a farm track which cars CAN'T drive down at more than 5 miles an hour but which is thick with hazards (we call it Spook Alley) - there they meet horses and donkeys in fields, roadside machinery, mad dogs, you name it! Their first couple of hacks are with a quiet companion (usually one backed 6 weeks earlier :D) but the backer HAS to lead. Then they have to go solo at regulr intervals to help develop their confidence in their rider (rather than in the 'companion' horse.)

Future schooling depends on age - with a 3 year old they'll do virtually no additional schooling - just hacking. An older horse will do more schooling once he's forward and balanced - and ahead of the leg.

Head 'position' is not asked for - it comes naturally once the horse is forward,ahead of the leg, balanced and accepting the bit. The use of voice aids and a neck strap means we can totally avoid any 'pull' on a horse's mouth!

What have been your greatest lessons - good or bad?

Never take ANYTHING for granted - and take your time!

What do you feel is the biggest mistake people make?

Hurrying - or going TOO slow. Not teaching voice aids in advance of backing.

Have you found any schooling aids that are particularly useful – or particularly harmful?

The only schooling aids we use are a lunge line - and neck strap! Never found anything else at all useful or necessary!
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golden_revolution said:
Leave their front ends alone- and by making the horse use itself (and the powerhouse that are its back legs and if used and strengthened correctly, its neck/dorsal muscles), the rest will follow as it finds itself being able to work freely and effectively.

:)
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Someone I know also went to this demo, and she teaches too. However (and a VERY BIG however) she takes 'leaving the front end alone' to the extreme where she has had pupils bucked off, exit school / teaching area where someone a little more savvy would read the situation and alter the riders influence to make sure this didn't happen.
Sorry, not quite the comment you were inviting but I think possibly relevant?
 
I'd say, overall, I agree with JanetGeorge, especially on the "lessons" and "mistakes" comments, and I think you'll find most successful producers will focus on the same things over and over. The fine details of the system may be different - and I've seen lovely horses from all sorts of systems - but the overall emphasis on getting horses working "calm, forward, straight" is really the only way to go.

As to specifics . . .

I probably don't hack as much/as early as many people in the UK as the bulk of my training has taken place in a different situation where safe hacking of any length is harder to come by - there is usually the option of going around the fields/yard but perhaps not be able to go much further than that before the horses are ready to compete. Also, my system is by necessity based on being able to start horses more or less by myself (so no one on the ground), often in livery yards where I cannot control too many of the variables. So I want the horses a bit more "confirmed" and might do more with them in the school, since I don't always have access to a "nanny" and/or varied hacking. I think there is a risk of taking a horse out too soon and getting into a situation where control becomes an issue, risking the wrong lessons being learned. That said, an experienced rider isn't going to let that happen!

I usually carry a dressage whip almost from the outset. I don't want any confusion on the horse's part about going off the leg, nor do I want to get into a situation where I have to increase pressure to the point where the horse is moving simply because it's upset.

That said, a snaffle bridle (no noseband but a well fitting leather halter underneath for reasons too complicated to go into here) and a well fitting saddle are all you need for basic training if things are going right. RE training is a different matter and situations can change later on, but for young horses I think feeling you need "more" is a sign of trouble.

I do longe/long line and sometimes use side reins/longeing aids in specific circumstances as I do want to make every step count, but generally, as I know more, I find I can do more - and better - with less. I think there is a real risk of overdoing it with young horses, not in terms of what you ask but how you ask.

As far as "lateral work", since the horse should be moving off the leg, longitudinally and laterally, in a basic manner from the get go, talking about this as a different matter is a bit of red herring. It's merely a case of turning the "baby steps" into something people recognise as a "movement".

I'd also say there's a difference between being "neutral" in front and riding on a surrendered rein. There's a place for both but I think teaching a young horse to take the rein forward and work over the top line is not something you "teach" at some later date, it's just the way you ride the horse. Again, it's something people tend to do without thinking with experience. Anything that stiffens the horse is bad, anything that fosters balance and relaxation is good . . .

I think the greatest "training assets" are patience (which, as JanetGeorge says, is not necessarily the same thing as going slowly), understanding of the desired outcome, having a system you can rely on but also be flexible with, and seeing the horse as an individual.
 
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I personally don't have experience of bringing a youngster on but have seen results that I admire. I was on a yard that on a small homely scale bred and brought on horses primarily for showjumping. They backed them later than most yards 4-5 and once they had taught the basics i.e. stop-start, left - right they did very little school work - occasionally loose schooled over jumps but primarily hacked and took out for sponsored rides etc. All their horses were forward going but sane and lovely and not soured by over schooling.
 
I have a horse now who was backed in March and was 4 in May so he's work in progress.

I have no experience of my own to draw on but I never hesitate to look for advice when I get stuck.

I'm also fortunate in the good nature of my horse.

The only advice I'm qualified to give is, always ask someone /read something when you get stuck. I believe that someone, somewhere will have had a similar experience which I can learn from. There is always more than one way to accomplish anything, so advice from lots of people is very good to have as it gives me more 'tools' to work with.
 
Irish-Only - really good point - l've seen lovely well meaning people just not realise you've got to pick their head up when the horse's back is rounding and it's heads going to the floor - when you've been at the job long enough your muscle memory just kicks in to say 'oi!' but as a teacher you've got to remember to make this clear to people!
 
IHK said:
Thanks Janet - I hoped you contribute! Yes good old neck strap - so named as it saves the rider's neck I think!
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I DID contribute rather more - but I was too gabby and HHO truncated it and I lost the rest! :mad:

Actually the neck strap's role is FAR more important than than saving the rider's neck - (if the job's been done right the rider's neck isn't at much risk anyway!) its most important job is to save the horse's mouth!! When my rider first sits on a breaker on the lunge he has NO reins - he uses 'Ho' (his version of whoa) and a pull on the neckstrap for all downward transitions. The horse already KNOWS Ho - and quickly learns that a pull on the neckstrap means the same.

SO when rider goes free (with reins) he doesn't need the reins for slowing down or stopping. When owners come to try their youngster for the first time after backing, it gives them great confidence to find they can go from canter to halt in two strides JUST with voice and a tug on the neck strap. But even more important than that, it means the horse can learn to have confidence in the contact - because he's never been hurt bythe bit being used roughly in an :eek: moment!
 
What stage would you expect a 2 year old to be at? Is there anything that I can do with the said youngster to get her on the right track for a smooth backing process?
 
More thoughts:

It's essential - when backing a youngster - to remember/take into account - what I call 'predator on back' syndrome.

In evolutionary terms, we have been riding horses for about 5 minutes! The horse has developed - and survived - because of very strong instincts for 'flight or fight' - and ANYTHING on a horse's back is (until he's taught differently) a predator that's about to kill him!

A client had her horse sent home by another 'trainer' (and I use the word loosely) as 'unbreakable and dangerous'; unbreakable (because he dumped said trainer) and dangerous (because he tried to kick trainer on the way down.) Of course, this didn't mean he was either - in fact it meant he was smart: horse bucked trainer off because he was a 'predator' - and he tried to kick him so the bu**er wouldn't come back and attack his under-belly!

Funnily enough, the two VERY easiest of our easy home-bred horses to back were two that had a 'difficult' start and therefore had an enormous amount of (not very nice) handling when they were newborns. One was a red bag foal and was severely hypoxic when born - he kept stopping breathing and passing out. So I spent nearly an hour kneeling over him (holding him upright) while thumping both side of his chest to keep his heart and breathing going! The other was born with Neonatal Maladjustment Syndrome ('dummy' foal) and he spent nearly a week trying to die - stomach tubing, iv drips - you name it, he had it! So backing was a non-event and he is the quietest 3 yo that ever lived!

When a horse suddenly finds a 'predator on his back' he has two options - bolt or buck. IF we have one who bucks when first led forward with rider, we don't do THAT again. We send him straight out on the lunge and LET him run (so he doesn't buck.) He very quickly outruns the fear - predator still there but it's obviously a FRIENDLY predator!:D
 
Faracat said:
What stage would you expect a 2 year old to be at? Is there anything that I can do with the said youngster to get her on the right track for a smooth backing process?
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Well!! My two year olds get haylage 'slices' thrown at them - aimed at the saddle area! They turn their heads and eat the haylage off their own backs! Apart from that - and the fact that noisy tractor comes right up to the fence line - and they reach over and eat haylage off it - I don't do much with them although I will pat them and jump up and down beside them (as if about to vault on!) And they come in8/weekly to be trimmed etc.

IF I had time I might do more -but if it's been done to them prior to weaning, then it doesn't need much more. Taking them for walks, general handling, exposing them to 'hazards' is useful - the important thing is NOT to let them become TOO 'tame' (pushy!) They need to learn 'respect'!
 
To me, the most important thing is the rider's feel for how the horse is going, and their intuition and experience when dealing with everything that occurs, ridden and handled, in that six months. You can do a 'good job' in a variety of different ways, but what matters, is that the person doing that job, is a good, intuitive horseman/woman, who is willing to adapt to each horse to get the best out of them.
 
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