frustrated not the word!

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jo p

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Hi all,

Looking for some help/advice/tips so I'd be really grateful if I got some responses :)
My problem is as follows:

I'm rubbish rider lol but desperately trying to improve....

I'm 5ft and weigh 8 stone and have a 15hh connemara cross big fat lazy cob!
He will happily run around all day but when it comes to working he's like a slug. I can get him to drop his head and flex and bend with the use of spurs in walk but as soon as it comes to trot I really really struggle getting him to move forward enough to drop his head . I find it really difficult trying to put my legs on to effectively use the spurs with any pressure whilst keeping position and usually end up flopping about all over the place. He's a lot better on the right rein when it comes to bending on the corners but if we change to the left he goes motorcycling around the corners as I can't seem to put enough pressure on with left leg ....

I know he is able to do it as as soon as my much bulkier stronger husband gets on he goes beautifully! Which obviously just makes me want to scream and give up. :(

I can get him going quite nicely on a hack but as soon as we attempt a circle anywhere it engages slug mode.

I've asked someone local for lessons but this hasn't happened yet and I don't have transport to take him anywhere.

We only have a small paddock and it doesn't help that it's not quite flat but have to make the most of what I have.

I tried lengthening my stirrups to try and get underneath him but I just ended up worse off .

Any help gratefully received

Jo
:)
 
Where are you? maybe someone on here could recomend a good instructor. Personaly I would stop worrying too much about bend and flexion at the moment and work on getting him going forward. Carry a schooling, ask for trot and if you dont get it imediatley reinforce your leg with the whip. Im not suggesting you beat him with it but it sounds like he needs to respect your leg a bit more. When hes going forward try not to 'nag' him so he stays switched on. Im not great at putting things into words so hopefuly someone else will come along with more advice.,
 
Thanks guys,

I've just ordered a schooling whip but I'm get another and try with the two.

I live in southern Ireland.

I totally agree with the nagging at him and glad you said that as it reinforces what I thought, I said this to my husband that he is just going to become numb but he said any horse that is working needs constant leg . The lady so schooled him for me whilst I was away in March said not to and if he starts slowing then tap his shoulder with the whip. I currently carry a short whip but he tends to shoot forward momentarily and then relaxes back again.

If it wasn't for the fact I have seen him going so well with someone else I wouldn't be so frustrated - I'm frustrated with myself that I can't do it :(
 
When you say "big fat lazy cob" are you joking or is he overweight? Because weight loss and fitness work could help a lot. Other than that, I would be forgetting about his head in favour of response and forwards first - one touch from your leg and he moves instantly or you back it up with whip instantly and you don't block him moving forwards. An instructor would be a great idea :)
 
Just something to add.

I'd always had a snaffle in him but the lady that schooled him after much trying put him in a kimblewick as this is what she found him to go best in. She said he's just to strong to go in the snaffle and fights it too much- she said she's had to remodel his neck as before he went to her we had only ever done straight line (no paddock) and he has this huge muscle built up
 
Lol I'm half joking about that fat bit, he isn't overweight Anymore although was before he went for schooling. He's an extremely good doer
 
If he isn't coming off your leg then that is the first thing I would work on, ignoring any bending round corners etc.

If he isn't off your leg, he isn't listening! I would ask for trot, and if he doesn't listen give him a swift kick, if this doesn't work a good, hard tap with the whip. As soon as he goes forward, give him a reward and keep going walk, trot, walk, trot until he gets the picture.
 
jo p said:
Hi all,

Looking for some help/advice/tips so I'd be really grateful if I got some responses :)
My problem is as follows:

I'm rubbish rider lol but desperately trying to improve....

I'm 5ft and weigh 8 stone and have a 15hh connemara cross big fat lazy cob!
He will happily run around all day but when it comes to working he's like a slug. I can get him to drop his head and flex and bend with the use of spurs in walk but as soon as it comes to trot I really really struggle getting him to move forward enough to drop his head . I find it really difficult trying to put my legs on to effectively use the spurs with any pressure whilst keeping position and usually end up flopping about all over the place. He's a lot better on the right rein when it comes to bending on the corners but if we change to the left he goes motorcycling around the corners as I can't seem to put enough pressure on with left leg ....

I know he is able to do it as as soon as my much bulkier stronger husband gets on he goes beautifully! Which obviously just makes me want to scream and give up. :(

I can get him going quite nicely on a hack but as soon as we attempt a circle anywhere it engages slug mode.

I've asked someone local for lessons but this hasn't happened yet and I don't have transport to take him anywhere.

We only have a small paddock and it doesn't help that it's not quite flat but have to make the most of what I have.

I tried lengthening my stirrups to try and get underneath him but I just ended up worse off .

Any help gratefully received

Jo
:)
Click to expand...

Make him more sensitive to your leg. Remove the spurs, but carry a long schooling whip. Give him time with this exercise, but if you do it, you will have a much more responsive horse that will be much easier to ride.

When you get on, forget the head....leave it be. What you describe is not necessarily pulling the head in, but asking for the head to be in before you actually get real forward movement. "Forward" in this case does not refer to the horse actually moving in a forward motion...it refers to the activity and mentality of the horses attitude to the work. "Forward" in this term is a horse that is in front of your leg. So...it sounds to me as though you need to create that forward attitude in your horse again. Your husband no doubt gets on and damn well expects the horse to work, asks and gets it. I would imagine he is a very dynamic rider that does not have the option of "no" as an answer built into him. I bet if your horse fails to respond to your husband...he learns pretty quickly that the answer "no" is not acceptable. It doesn't mean your husband is a hard rider at all....in fact it means your husband is riding in a manner that helps the horse. It is black and white riding and it is the best way IMO. Consistency is key...you teach a horse what you want and you only give the reward when the horse does it the way you want it. You don't punish the poor attempts, but you only reward the right way....just correcting the wrong way by asking again or coming out of the movement. If we allow a horse to give us "almost right" sometimes, where is the motivation for it to give us "right" all the time?

So...start by reminding your horse that it will be rewarded for doing the right thing. This is an exercise I have posted up on this forum many times, but is something I do with every horse I ride, every time I get on, without fail. It sets the horse up for a good session.

When you get on, take up a light contact...as if you are going for a casual hack. Think of the principal, "three strikes and you're out".
When you ask the horse to walk forward, you just flex your calf muscles against his side. That's it, just a flex that gives a very slight squeeze...just enough for him to feel it. If he moves forward, tell him he's a good boy, keep your legs quiet and most important....send your hands forward to give him his head and allow him forward, then give him a rub on the wither. If he doesn't move off the slight squeeze, do it again, exactly the same way. If he moves, reward. If he doesn't, you ask for the third time but be ready with your schooling whip. Give the light squeeze and if he doesn't move, instantly give him a short sharp tap (not a big smack, just a good sharp tap) with the whip and reward when he moves forward. Don't be tempted to kick or sqeeze harder. Then, ask him to halt by a simple stop aid on the reins at the same time as freezing your pelvis and contracting your abs. This is usually the easiest part as they always like to stop :). It usually only takes a few times of doing this and your previously lazy horse will willingly move forward off the very slightest flexion of your calf muscle and will halt just by the contraction of your abs.

When he moves forward, allow him to walk at least 15 strides before asking for the halt. don't do anything with his head. Leave it be.

When you get the halt, reward it by relaxing the abs and reins immediately and telling him he's a good boy.

When you have it in the walk, do it in the trot. Same principal and forget the head. When you have him responsive in walk and trot, you can begin to ask him to come together in the trot, but this HAS to come from forward movement. Close your fingers around the reins but don't do anything yet....then put your legs on to ask for a bit more "forward" and hold the contact, essentially blocking, but with an almost immediate half halt. The hands shouldn't be rigid, but they should give a secure place for the horse to find contact in.

If he doesn't bring his head down, don't worry...it's to do with the back end, not his head. Half halt, increase the energy in the trot (or walk) and keep the hands still and soft, but secure in their position so that he has that contact to come into.

It's not teaching him how to go on the bit...it's teaching you how to give him a "safe" place to be where the contact is kind to him. Being on the bit will come when he finds this contact (which should ideally be slightly above the bit)...and develops self carriage. It takes time and strength, so give him time and stick with it.

When you want to ride a horse in a contact that encourages self carriage, think of a tow rope between two cars. If the car in front (riders hands) is inconsistent and taught one minute but loose the next, the car behind (horses mouth) will get tugged and pulled and will be very stop/start. If the car in front just keeps a steady tension on the rope, the car behind gets a smooth and consistent tow.

Use your hands in a way that give the horse a smooth, soft and consistent contact to work into.

As for the drifting in the corners, inside leg and inside rein and think about leg yielding him through the corner. It's more detailed than that and I might write more later, but I am being ushered to hurry up to go to the pub now.

Don't lose faith...you can do it. Just forget about his head and concentrate on his responsiveness to your aids and giving him consistent contact to work into :)
 
Thank you so much gg I'm need to print that out but so very detailed great thank you - patience is something I need to practice too :)
Yes u have my husband spot on!!!! :)
 
I can sympathise as I am 5ft tall too and have short legs. I suspect your husband is not only stronger but also has longer legs, which makes a lot of difference. I still struggle to ride wide horses, but found things improved when I did exercises to elongate my legs and wrap them round the horse. Lunge lessons are good for this but you can also do exercises on the ground.
 
Thanks cowpony , yes he is 10inches taller than me and with him only being 15h Lee can get his legs near all way under and I'm only getting to just under saddle flaps!
Please could you let me know how you do these exercises?
Thanks
Jo
 
Re getting off the leg - if he's not liable to get upset about it try this
-Squeeze for trot
-If he doesn't go, cluck- this has to be very soon after - 1 sec after squeezing
-If he doesn't, a very sharp smack with a stick.
--Rinse&repeat. He'll learn eventually to move with the squeeze but if he's big and strong and youre nagging, he'll have no reason to want to - he can take the mick. Being v. firm - saying - you can move now or you can have a smack and move- might make him respect you better.
 
Where in south Ireland if you don't mind me asking? I'm from there so may be able to help with instructor. Pm me if you want. :)
In the mean time take of the spurs as they aren't doing anything but deadening him to your leg even more. My instructor uses the "air,hair,muscle,bone" method of waking up a dead to the leg horse:
Squeeze your leg lightly around him(extremely gentle) If no response squeeze harder (still fairly lightly) if he responds great relax, if not kick lightly, again if he responds great. If he is still not responding kick him hard/schooling whip banging at him. Disclaimer: I do not mean beat or hurt your horse I mean kick him just enought to get his attention on you! ;) Repeat this strictly every time you ask for a change of pace (even out hacking) and you should find him responding quicker to the lighter aids.
That plus lots of transitions to keep him focussed should help.
 
having had a completely lazy pony i know how you feel! but please remember horses don't have to work so beating them up with a whip may make them forward but they may not enjoy it as much. also forget about the head until he's going forward because holding the head in without impulsion will lead to a "broken neckline" or "false outline" which basically defeats the point. even if he goes about with his head up in the air but is forward then you can work on the head.

some exercises i found worked really well with my boy:
- make sure the school is fun! when you get on have a real "right lets do this" attitude and mix and match the whole time. change the reign a lot and do lots of transitions.
- if he enjoys jumping or pole work set up one pole in the middle and work around it/over it, then have several other poles set up around the school and work around those as well! same with the jumps. they only have to be small.
- transitions !!!! get on, walk for two strides then stand. then walk for one then stand. then walk for five then stand. don't do the same number of strides more than once in a row. and alter the time you stop for as well, so stand for 1 second then next time stand for 5, kinda thing
- with the schooling whip as well an amazing exercise my instructor taught me was called the "metronome" and that in trot hold the reigns in one hand and the whip in the other. when the inside foreleg goes forward touch (NOT tap!! literally just a touch with an open hand so there is no force) with the whip, when the outside back leg goes forward touch with the whip and repeat. if you want to move faster increase the rate of the taps and slower decrease. but if you get faster don't hit harder.

i hope these help. also if you do have to use the whip avoid using it on the shoulder, use it on the bum because that's where the energy should come. people at my yard use the whip on the shoulder to get them to stand still so maybe that's what your boy is thinking as well.

i hope this all made sense and feel free to pm me if you want !! i could probably think of more exercises given time but can't off of the top of my head.
 
May I mention just one small thing, sometimes if a horse motors straight rather than wanting to bend and be supple it can be because it's sore and finds it too difficult to use itself correctly, he may do so with your partner as he is stronger, but if he is made to do it when sore it will be even harder for him to hear you when you ask nicely (no idea of you or your husbands background with horses so this is meant constructively not critically). I would get a decent bodyworker or chiro to give him a good going over and check there isn't any soreness which is making him resistant and that your saddle isn't blocking any forward movement and I would get a good instructor to do some posture work with you, some ground work with the horse including long reining and help you teach him voice commands. If you have a partnership on the ground it is more likely to transfer in to the saddle. I would also be looking not only at transitions - lots of and when you want them, but I would also try to teach him things like shoulder in and counter bend, these are very effective in getting them listening and looser and encourages straightness and self carriage, I also find it helps them move more forwards. Don't know if that helps but I hope it might.
 
jo p said:
Thanks cowpony , yes he is 10inches taller than me and with him only being 15h Lee can get his legs near all way under and I'm only getting to just under saddle flaps!
Please could you let me know how you do these exercises?
Thanks
Jo
Click to expand...

On the ground I stand with my feet hip width apart and then swivel my heels to try to get my feet in a straight line, toes towards each other. Hold it for a few seconds and stretch down the back of your thighs.

On the horse do normal canter for a few strides then light seat for a few strides, then sit again etc etc. You can also do it in trot. This gets your legs into the right place and closer against the horse. If you are on a wide horse you tend to sit in armchair position so your leg is less effective because it's not in the right place.
 
Thank you all so much for your replies I'm so very grateful.
Quick update , this morning I went in very focused and relaxed, he was an absolute star!! We only did 15 mins but for that 15 mins I couldn't fault him , his rhythm in trot was fabulous ....I did lost of transitions and began by doing the exercise gg suggested.
After the 15 mins we went out for a hack I wanted to leave things on a good note so that's why I stopped then.
 
jo p said:
Thank you all so much for your replies I'm so very grateful.
Quick update , this morning I went in very focused and relaxed, he was an absolute star!! We only did 15 mins but for that 15 mins I couldn't fault him , his rhythm in trot was fabulous ....I did lost of transitions and began by doing the exercise gg suggested.
After the 15 mins we went out for a hack I wanted to leave things on a good note so that's why I stopped then.
Click to expand...

Perfect...why do more than 15 minutes if 15 minutes is what keeps him working well? I used to get so judged by people on an old yard many years ago because a youngster I was bringing on was quite a talented little thing. I used to come out of the school some days after 10 minutes and some days after 40 minutes. Most of the women on the yard stuck fast to their 40 minute or one hour schooling sessions, but you know what...I always came out on a happy horse that wanted to work with me every time we went back in.

Did you find the responsiveness exercise got him more willing and listening to you?
 
Yeah it definitely did cant thank u enough :) it was like he found a born again energy!
I did it a few times on the hack too when I could tell he was starting to wonder into troys world! It happens quite a lot as although hes just turned 7 hes unbelievably babyish , I keep thinking he will grow up but now just think its his personality.

Thanks again x
 
Some great advice already given. Not sure if this has already been mentioned but doing a fair bit of groundwork ie lunging each week to increase fitness and get his attention more on you and your voice can help an awful lot. You can work on sharpening the transitions from the ground also, and it allows him to find his own balance without the weight of a rider on in the meantime.
 
jo p said:
Yeah it definitely did cant thank u enough :) it was like he found a born again energy!
I did it a few times on the hack too when I could tell he was starting to wonder into troys world! It happens quite a lot as although hes just turned 7 hes unbelievably babyish , I keep thinking he will grow up but now just think its his personality.

Thanks again x
Click to expand...

Bless him...it's one of the simplest exercises but I've yet to find a horse that doesn't appreciate it :)
 
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