Full livery - advice please

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telfs

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I could really use some advice/opinions on my livery.
I'm currently on full livery on a yard that costs £90 a week (I'm in the north east where the average for full is £75-80). I know I'm paying a lot of money but I'm a doctor so work odd hours so I like to know my horses still have routines even if I can't get there until late.
I've only been on the yard about 4 months but I'm fed up already. This is the first time I've been on anything but DIY so I'm not sure if I'm over reacting.
1. It's meant to be adlib haylage but lately I've been told that it's 1 net a night as they can't afford to do adlib for mine (mine are the only full liveries on the yard).
2. They're both losing weight and I need to change their food but that won't come under my livery costs nor will I get a reduction for not using their hard feed
3. We don't even have an arena!
4. They added supplements to my horses feed without even telling me
5. My horses are picking up bad manners and habits as they often lead them around by just holding onto their rugs
6. I'm made to feel like they're doing me a favour by mucking my horses out. They seem to forget I'm paying for a service and often ask me to do odd jobs to make up for it!

I know with full livery I have to hand over the care of my horses but is the above common place in full livery?
My horses are a 9 year old wb and a rising 4 ID so neither can afford to lose weight at this time of year.
I know if I'm not happy then I have to move as I'm finding I'm spending less time up there but the people are lovely which makes me want to stay. I don't want to move somewhere else to only find full livery is like this everywhere. My horses are both so settled and chilled that I feel bad moving them again after a few months!

Sorry for the rant. I'm feeling particularly fed up tonight :(
 
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Just move .
Your horses should not be losing wieght not having enough forage is not acceptable.
I would not expect to get a reduction if I chose to buy different food .
And it would not suprise me if they added supplements without telling me as its full livery.
You have to accept the leading round by rugs you can't micromanage .
Annoying I know but it's the price of full livery.
But TBH I don't know how anyone can turn a profit for less than £15 a day .
 
No, I wouldn't be happy with that.

I pay more than that for part livery (excluding riding), but I'm in Surrey and at a yard with fantastic facilities, including a 40x90 floodlit arena.

Whether adlib hay or not, the yard should be providing sufficient hay and feed for your horses to maintain a good, healthy weight. I would move if I was not getting that.

I'd also be peeved at being made to feel guilty for them mucking out. It's one thing to ask you to do the odd favour, but quite another to be specifically asked to do jobs to make up for it - you are paying for the service!

Personally in your shoes I would move.
 
I've had my horses on livery at 3-4 different yards over the years and this is not the way livery horses or owners should be treated. One of the issues on your list may be tolerated for an otherwise good service but if a yard is lacking in all the ways mentioned above then I would move ASAP.
 
No that is c**p full livery..... Move as quickly as possibly

I've been on livery like that with haylage restrictions, not enough feed etc..... Can't believe you are paying £90 for no arena?
 
Sounds very poor. Leading the horses round by their rugs may not be a big deal if the yard is enclosed, but it could be an indicator that standards are sloppy.
The haylage ration is unacceptable, although if that was the only issue on a good yard, I'd be happy to pay extra for an increased ration.
Bottom line is that the horses should not be picking up bad habits and bad manners. It's another indicator that the yard is unprofessional.
 
dogatemysalad said:
Sounds very poor. Leading the horses round by their rugs may not be a big deal if the yard is enclosed, but it could be an indicator that standards are sloppy.
The haylage ration is unacceptable, although if that was the only issue on a good yard, I'd be happy to pay extra for an increased ration.
Bottom line is that the horses should not be picking up bad habits and bad manners. It's another indicator that the yard is unprofessional.
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My worry is for my 4 year old. She's walking all over them. She's 16.2 and has bad manners to start with never mind the fact they haven't used a head collar on her in weeks.
Apparently paying extra for more haylage isn't an option as mine don't require more!! Their weight is saying other wise!
 
Move.

The people may be nice, and the horses may seem settled, but their welfare is not being taken care of. And they shouldn't be treating you the way they are. You are the client, they cater to your horses and your needs not vice versa.

I'm sure there's decent yards, that are professionally run, with better facilities that offer full livery in your area. It's not worth risking your horses health, and compromising their manners.
 
Goldenstar said:
Just move .
Your horses should not be losing wieght not having enough forage is not acceptable.
I would not expect to get a reduction if I chose to buy different food .
And it would not suprise me if they added supplements without telling me as its full livery.
You have to accept the leading round by rugs you can't micromanage .
Annoying I know but it's the price of full livery.
But TBH I don't know how anyone can turn a profit for less than £15 a day .
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Thanks goldenstar. It's good to know what I should/not expect. I really want to avoid micromanaging so it's helpful to know whats acceptable and what's not. I've been on DIY for the last 15 years and never done full before.

My concern with the adding of supplements (it was oil and vitamins) is if they got fizzy or had a bad reaction then I'd be the one forking out for the vet bill when I hadn't been informed that they'd added things.
 
I live in the north east, just on the border of Tyne and wear and county Durham. I work full time but in 2 different places, one is near Stanley and the other near Newcastle airport. My current yard is Consett/Stanley area
 
To be honest I would expect to be told about supplements being added to my horses feed if I was on full livery. At the end of the daymy horse, my say, and if it caused any adverse reaction, or fizzing them up to the point they injured themselves prating about it would be my vets bill. (I knowit unlikely but still.)

I would not expect a reduction for not using the feed provided.

I would expect my horses to be handled appropriately, and would expect a head collar to be used when leading. And I would be blinking angry if their failure in doing so resulted in bad manners.

You say you can't micro manage, and I agree, but you have a right to expect things to be done professionally, to be consulted of supplements given - before they are fed. At the end of the day you're a customer and the yard are not doing you a favour, you are paying for a service.

Also who are they to tell you your horses can't have more forage, even if you pay for it?!
 
With the haylage I am not too surprised about one net a night, I don't think that is uncommon. But you should be allowed to pay more if you want your horse to have more.

Can you ask them to give more feed if they look light. I would not expect a reduction in price for using own food, but they should give more feed to them at no extra cost. Unless it is a very large amount in comparison to other horses. And they should defiantly be telling you about any supplements or really any changes in diet.

The leading is unacceptable, it is never safe to lead just by a rug. Ok, if it is your horses and have done it for a long time. But a horse on full livery and especially with the horses you have (even the bet 4 yo can be spooked) it is not right.

Hope you find a nice yard were they have a few full liverys (they are more likely to know how to behave with full liverys). And hope your 4yo has not been long term effected by there actions.
 
Move them. I am in the south east and pay £70pw for full livery but I provide feed, hay and bedding. It's perfect as I can say how much I want them to have - they have ad lib hay and always have loads left in the morning.
Added to that the care is amazing. Highly professional staff and a* care every day.
 
Not read all the replies, but imho you should move asap. Full livery is supposed to take the worry out of having horses, but this sounds shockingly bad.
 
I think the problem is they are not charging enough for full livery and therefore are cutting corners with food and time. Putting a dog in kennels is more than £10 a night now, In the short term go an buy some hay and food weigh out exactly what you want them to have and give in addition to what ever they are giving them now. I would buy haynets and prefill them so there is no excuse. With winter on the way if you do not get calories into them now you will have a hard time catching up and will end up feeding far more food.
If you move them like all things you get what you pay for, I would work out what you would be paying if you did DIY, and see if the figures work out, if its too cheap there's a reason.
 
I agree with above, these people have offered full livery (and I assume you mean all care without riding - different people define it differently !!) at only £12.80 a day and are now realising that is unsustainable - hence trying to cut costs (although odd to cut haylage and add suppliments!) and cut time taken by not bothering with headcollars etc.
Once they've paid rent/ mortgage, business rates, insurance, water, electric, bedding, feed, haylage, maintenance etc they are propable working for pence an hour.

Perhaps ask around and see if you can find somewhere more experienced with full livery, take references from existing liveries and double check on the details - but you might need to expect to pay more
 
If you are happy you can find something to fit your and your horses needs move! Ofcourse you can always pay more so your horses get back up to weight etc but with no facilities I should think you could do better
 
If you can I'd look at moving as I don't think your getting what you were expecting and your horses are suffering because of it.
Full livery where I am is £110 a week but that includes use of outdoor all weather school, indoor school, XC course, 250 acres off road hacking, jumping paddock, all weather gallops just down the road and a horse walker.
Adlib hay is included along with bedding and the usual daily chores like turnout, muck out, bring in, rug changes etc etc...just turn up and ride!!
Only extras are feed and shoes.
I'm sure there are people who get more for less money and others who pay more for less but as long as you get what you think your paying for and by the sounds of it your not!
 
Well I've been on a good few full livery yards and none sound like that

I'm sorry id be moving, no way I'd have my horse going without hay. Also with no indoor school, nope no chance.

I pay £470 a month and the standard of care is fantastic , we have a massive indoor and a full size outdoor , total liveries is 15 people.

If you look hard you will find good yards
 
amymay said:
Move, or discusa increasing your charges to a more realistic amount.
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If they cant work out the cost of feeding a horse and the extra cost of labour, and think that the answer is to cut back on feed to increase profits. well.......... they are pretty useless
Within a 30 mile radius of me the cost of full livery varies between £70 per week and £130 per week, and you don't always get what you pay for.
 
Move, no way would I accept them leading horses by the rug, what if they rip? Bloody fortune to replace and ad lib means ad lib, not starve the horses. If they can't offer what you need, move. The are lots of yards in that area, make the time to visit them.
 
I think you know deep down what you need to do. I know it will be a pain in the bum to find somewhere else and move, but think of the alternative... 2 very undrweight skinny horses esp if we have a severe winter and a very naughty/ could be dangerous 1/2 tonne of horsewith no manners. I know it sounds a bit extreme but when you think you could have 2 beautiful glowing horses coming out of a wild winter and a lovely well mannered, dream to teach youngster. No brainer really start looking for a new home asap. :) Put that next to the £90 a week for no facilities they are taking the pee.
 
Sounds pretty shoddy!

Paying over the odds for a yard that doesn't even have an arena? Look elsewhere. Maybe if your horses were getting platinum care and they sweep the ground in front of their hooves then I would think it was OK to pay that much for poor facilities.

Find somewhere else ASAP!
 
That is not how full livery should be.
You are paying for a service, if you are not getting what you are ment to then either make then reduce you livery cost or move.

You will find another yard. That is properly run.
Do your home work and go to potential yard at different time.

Maybe assisted diy would work better then full. You have more control but will have as much or as little help as you want.
 
I am on a brilliant yard but even so feeding was the one thing I struggled to hand over when I moved from diy. No reflection on the yard at all but I'd always fed according to weight (measued partly by girth hole ) and how the horse felt when I rode (full of beans = less food, a bit sluggish = more food) and made small adjustments daily. Rather than being a total irritation to the YM I make food up when go to ride and leave it ready. It works for us. When I wanted to feed something that they didn't stock I just bought some and used it. I wouldn't expect a change in price for that though.
 
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