Full loaning

[kjr2804]

I have part loaned for years and now looked into full loaning and decided it is something I am going to do within the next 6 months... once lockdown has cleared.

I’ve researched a yard I would like to move to and on part livery (inc feed, hay and bedding) plus shoes, insurance, lessons etc it would come to around £315 per month. Is this reasonable?
Is there any chance at all that the owner would be able to contribute some cost in return for amazing care of their horse? Thanks

 

[joosie]

In general the idea of full loan is that you take on all responsibility for the horse including all the expenses. It would be unusual for the owner to contribute to general costs.

 

[teddypops]

The owner might continue to pay the insurance. I did when I had a pony out on loan, otherwise all costs will be yours just like owning.

 

[ihatework]

Keeping a part livery stabled horse on £315 a month, including the extras, doesn’t sound amazing to me I’m afraid and if I were owning the horse I would be very concerned at what corners were being cut.

 

[Shay]

The cost does seem quite low - although it might depend on where in the coutry you are, what the facilities are etc. I'm just trying to work it out (always depressing!) Bedding, feed, hay and shoes alone would come to something in the region of £150 - £200. Lessons another £100 if you have one a week - obviously you could have fewer. Even then that doesn't give you much further to go with your insurance and livery fees.

It is rare for the owner of a horse on full loan to pay for anything - that is after all the point! They may keep control of the insurance policy to make sure the insurance is at a level they want but the loaner can reasonably expect to be asked to pay the premiums.

It might be worth re-checking your sums. You should also build in contingency for vets fees (not everything will be coevred by insurance) and something for kit. Some loan horses come with tack some don't. Even if they do you will probably need to repair or replace items over time, replace rugs, buy grooming kit, haynets, etc. You need to build that into your budget.

 

[Surbie]

That seems really low for part livery and like IHW I would want to properly check it out. Any decent owner looking to loan would visit/inspect the yard too, before handing over their horse. They might also want you to start the loan at their yard to check how it goes before the horse moves away.

I've got a horse on permanent loan - I pay for everything (had to get new tack & rugs too) & have a pot set aside in case of emergencies, though if it were a big thing I'd be talking to his owner first.

 

[shamrock2021]

For livery Ireland is way cheaper than the uk and even I don’t pay cheap. My livery bill is €400 a month for full livery ( without the riding )

 

[kjr2804]

Thanks guys! I have double checked and it would be around £315 excluding any lessons or vet bills or any random extras s. I was hoping to pay livery, hay, feed, bedding and shoes and possibly ask if the owner would maintain insurance and vet bills?

 

[AmyMay]

Insurance, yes. Vets bills highly, highly unlikely.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Thanks guys! I have double checked and it would be around £315 excluding any lessons or vet bills or any random extras s. I was hoping to pay livery, hay, feed, bedding and shoes and possibly ask if the owner would maintain insurance and vet bills?

I think you’d be incredibly lucky to find an owner that’s willing to still cover vet bills while the horse is on full loan, especially in the current climate when I suspect a lot of horses being advertised will be because of the owner’s finances. Perhaps looking for a share might suit you better?

 

[MissTyc]

Thanks guys! I have double checked and it would be around £315 excluding any lessons or vet bills or any random extras s. I was hoping to pay livery, hay, feed, bedding and shoes and possibly ask if the owner would maintain insurance and vet bills?

It's a discussion to be had.

When I loaned out my late ISH I kept up the insurance and I also paid for vaccinations and teeth direct to my chosen vet; however I didn't pay for other vet fees and loaner paid insurance excess when it was needed. When he got really sick, once it looked like he wasn't going to make it, I offered to take over all additional costs. As it happened, we ended up sharing euthanasia and disposal. I got a little back from the insurance but she was more than willing to pay her part. She had him on loan for 3 years and she really improved him in that time; I enjoyed watching them and she did loads with him - lessons, competitions, that gave me joy from a distance so I still felt like the owner.

ETA: she wasn't a super rider or anything, but sympathetic and enthusiastic, always wanting to do more with him and investing her money into lessons and travel and competitions.

 

[Equine_Dream]

So essentially you have all the enjoyment/benefit of the horse but the owner is saddled with vets bills for a horse not in their care.....sorry but I doubt any owner will agree to this.

I think you may find a part loan or share more appropriate

 

[Surbie]

Thanks guys! I have double checked and it would be around £315 excluding any lessons or vet bills or any random extras s. I was hoping to pay livery, hay, feed, bedding and shoes and possibly ask if the owner would maintain insurance and vet bills?

It's worth discussing - someone on my yard has a loan with pre-existing conditions and the owner is paying any vet bills to do with those.

 

[ihatework]

Thanks guys! I have double checked and it would be around £315 excluding any lessons or vet bills or any random extras s. I was hoping to pay livery, hay, feed, bedding and shoes and possibly ask if the owner would maintain insurance and vet bills?

There are only 2 instances where I would consider such a situation.
1. A creaky horse with lots of pre-existing conditions that had little value and only had a limited work capacity
2. A very good horse with a very good rider who was skilfully training/competing the horse

For your first loan then if you are taking on a semi-lame hacking crock then you might get the owner to fund some stuff

 

[Bernster]

Agreed - if I loaned my semi retired girl, I’d cover vet fees for her pre existing conditions. But for standard loans, unlikely.

 

[kjr2804]

Thanks for your help to reply to a comment above, I have been part loaning for years now and I wouldn’t try to make an owner pay as you said - i was just asking if it was likely.

 

[BatHorse]

I've had a full loan in the past where the owner continued to pay for his insurance and vet bills, including vaccinations. Everything else was paid by me; livery, feed, lessons, feet, teeth, saddle fitting etc

 

[caileag]

semi-lame hacking crock

?

 

[Evie91]

I think as other posters have said you might get lucky if the horse has pre-existing long term condition.

Personally alarm bells would ring if potential loaner was asking owner to cover vet bills- I’d be worried that meant they couldn’t afFord veterinary care and may put off calling the vet due to this. Doesn’t apply to you but have seen plenty of posts over the years of people asking for forum advice when obviously a vet is required, then state finances are an issue. None of us have unlimited funds but there must be insurance/or alternative and slush fund in place in case horse needs a vet.
I’d also be worried if loaner was asking for vets fees as I’d wonder whether they would be as careful if they thought someone else was picking up the tab. Then again I am a worry wort and often overly careful - won’t trot, canter on frozen ground for example.

I had a horse on loan for the best part of ten years before she was gifted to me. I paid all costs and for the majority of the time she was on part livery- and cost me at least £200 a month more than you have worked out - and that was a number of years ago now. Not saying your sums are wrong but are you sure you’ve covered everything? Plus I loaned a Tb and am very particular about appropriate care- farrier every six weeks, chiro, saddle check, dentists, jabs etc. I’m sure other breeds can be kept more cheaply!

 

[kjr2804]

I think as other posters have said you might get lucky if the horse has pre-existing long term condition.

Personally alarm bells would ring if potential loaner was asking owner to cover vet bills- I’d be worried that meant they couldn’t afFord veterinary care and may put off calling the vet due to this. Doesn’t apply to you but have seen plenty of posts over the years of people asking for forum advice when obviously a vet is required, then state finances are an issue. None of us have unlimited funds but there must be insurance/or alternative and slush fund in place in case horse needs a vet.
I’d also be worried if loaner was asking for vets fees as I’d wonder whether they would be as careful if they thought someone else was picking up the tab. Then again I am a worry wort and often overly careful - won’t trot, canter on frozen ground for example.

I had a horse on loan for the best part of ten years before she was gifted to me. I paid all costs and for the majority of the time she was on part livery- and cost me at least £200 a month more than you have worked out - and that was a number of years ago now. Not saying your sums are wrong but are you sure you’ve covered everything? Plus I loaned a Tb and am very particular about appropriate care- farrier every six weeks, chiro, saddle check, dentists, jabs etc. I’m sure other breeds can be kept more cheaply!

that sounds completely fair! And I think I have covered everything - I’ve covered livery, hay, food, bedding, shoes or trimming, insurance, lessons.. what am I missing apart from money incase of replacements or issues ?

 

[Evie91]

Possible tack or rugs depending if horse comes with any. Chiro, saddle fit, dentist- every six months (is my preference), any supplements.
You certainly have a bargain if you can do part livery for price quoted. Have you visited the yard? Does it have the facilities you require, is it somewhere you’d be happy to keep your horse- safe, good horse management, quality feed, what bedding is included, good staff etc.
If it is a genuine bargain I’m surprised they have any spaces, then again I suppose where in the country- some places less populated than others! So do they expect a retainer? -to hold a stable whilst you look for a horse.
Always have a contingency fund- IME horses ALWAYS cost more than you’ve budgeted for.
Insurance you need third party as a minimum. I always insure for vets fees too not everyone chooses to, you may need to include tack too (if horse comes with any) but there are usually stipulations about where it’s left (not all tack rooms are considered secure for insurance purposes). Have the excess available too- if you do need to claim you will still need to pay the excess. The more excess you are willing to pay the cheaper your premiums might be.

Also remember full set can be expensive - £70 a set every six weeks for TB. Last horse £45 fronts only. Share horse only has a trim- beautiful,hard Spanish hooves! TB couldn’t cope without shoes, so this depends of what is required for the horse.

What type are you looking for? As I say there are cheaper options available and I’m often surprised as to how cheaply some people manage to keep theirs for- mine have always been spendy! then again my favourite’s are TB!

 

[kjr2804]

Possible tack or rugs depending if horse comes with any. Chiro, saddle fit, dentist- every six months (is my preference), any supplements.
You certainly have a bargain if you can do part livery for price quoted. Have you visited the yard? Does it have the facilities you require, is it somewhere you’d be happy to keep your horse- safe, good horse management, quality feed, what bedding is included, good staff etc.
If it is a genuine bargain I’m surprised they have any spaces, then again I suppose where in the country- some places less populated than others! So do they expect a retainer? -to hold a stable whilst you look for a horse.
Always have a contingency fund- IME horses ALWAYS cost more than you’ve budgeted for.
Insurance you need third party as a minimum. I always insure for vets fees too not everyone chooses to, you may need to include tack too (if horse comes with any) but there are usually stipulations about where it’s left (not all tack rooms are considered secure for insurance purposes). Have the excess available too- if you do need to claim you will still need to pay the excess. The more excess you are willing to pay the cheaper your premiums might be.

Also remember full set can be expensive - £70 a set every six weeks for TB. Last horse £45 fronts only. Share horse only has a trim- beautiful,hard Spanish hooves! TB couldn’t cope without shoes, so this depends of what is required for the horse.

What type are you looking for? As I say there are cheaper options available and I’m often surprised as to how cheaply some people manage to keep theirs for- mine have always been spendy! then again my favourite’s are TB!

Yeah I have multiple friends at the yard who love it. It doesn’t have the best facilities but it has an outdoor arena, turnout everyday and good stables and that is all I will need to be honest. Ideally I’d be looking for a hardy breed who doesn’t need shoes or too much feed but I know this is rare so I am keeping my options open and just hoping the right horse comes along

 

[Evie91]

Good luck

 

[kjr2804]

Good luck

Thanks so much