Further to Reasons why riders do not wear Hi Viz...............

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Toby_Zaphod

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Someone mentioned 'Personal Choice'.

Personal Choice still is available to horse riders regarding the wearing of Hi Viz, Wearing of Riding Hats etc.

When I learned to ride motorcycles there was no Hi Viz, the wearing of Helmets was not mandatory however because of serious injuries & fatalities legislation put into place that would remove Personal Choice & stated what you must wear when you ride motorcycles.

Should legislation be brought in regarding what riders should wear when riding on public roads, bridle paths etc?

Just a thought? ;)
 
No the government should butt out of peoples lives .
Laws should only be considered when there's considerable good data showing that fatalities would be reduced .
I don't think that data exists .
 
i think it would be a good idea for horse riders and cyclists on roads.. anything that , makes people and horses easier to see would help car drivers..i am a rider (always wear high viz myself) and drive on country roads a lot and many times have come round a corner and hardly been able to see either a cyclist or horse rider ,but the people who wear high viz stand out really well and there is no danger that you wouldn't be able to see them.....if we ride on the roads i think we need to help the motorists to see us....
 
I ride out dressed like a christmas tree with flashing lights on my helmet in all weathers but at least I know me and my horses will be seen. I don't just do it for myself but for the drivers who otherwise might not see me until the last minute and have to live with the guilt if anything bad happened.
I was out with my boyfriend the other day and he suddenly started slowing down the car. I asked him why and it was because there was a horse about 100m in front of us. My eyes aren't the best and I didn't have my glasses on (always do to drive though) but there was no way I could see them even when we started getting close - a chestnut horse in front of a hedge that was still covered in brown leaves and rider in a navy jackets. I wanted to roll down the window and say to the rider that she completely blended in with the hedge and she was lucky we saw her but thought that might have been seen as rude rather than helpful!
 
Imagine killing a cyclist, pedestrian or anyone who was difficult to see and living with that for the rest of your life. Then imagine someone living with killing you and your horse and probably their passenger when it went through the windscreen because they didn't see it in time.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Imagine killing a cyclist, pedestrian or anyone who was difficult to see and living with that for the rest of your life. Then imagine someone living with killing you and your horse and probably their passenger when it went through the windscreen because they didn't see it in time.
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They would have to live with the fact that THEY where driving in an unsuitable way for the road conditions they would not be allowed to hit a small grey car and blame the car for being grey .
 
I'd like to see Hi Viz become the law for ANYONE who uses the road without four wheels. Cyclists, horse riders, motorbikers, just a blanket rule. I can't remember the last time I rode out onto roads, but I do remember the jury service I did this year, which was car versus motorbike, and I remember the photos vividly, and just how poor vision can be, even on the brightest of days...

Oh and if we are law changing, make the drink driving limit zero. No ifs, buts, maybes, the choice is drink OR drive.
 
Given that when you venture onto a road with a horse, you are also making everyone else on that road share it with a horse, yes, there should be guidelines or rules in place stating a minimum of what you must wear to be sufficiently visible. If you were risking simply yourself I would say leave it to the individual, but you are also potentially risking everyone you encounter whilst on the road and as such there should be a collective set of rules for it IMO.

Personal choice or not, life is too precious to risk over something as simple and as cheap as Hi Viz. It doesn't prevent ALL accidents but it is a very, very basic and accessible piece of free insurance, if you will.
 
I was out in my car on a country lane. Through the hedges I could see a rider wearing hivis around the corner. When I came around the corner I was stunned to come upon 3 riders. The two bays were invisible... Yes I saw them in plenty of time to slow don't, but hivis gives drivers so much more thinking time.

Plus if the helicopters are looking for you if you fall off, they are more likely to find you if you are lit like a beacon
 
Yes it should, along with 'pass wide and slow' legislation. Mandatory ' riding and road safety' prior to road use wouldn't be a bad thing either. Maybe that, instead of mandatory hi-viz? Because there are some abysmal riders on the roads, ' in charge' of hundreds of kilo of animal. That's hardly safe, is it? I don't know. I'm so against the ' nanny state' in every other aspect but things like this worry me and endanger not only rider but horse and everyone else. I'm as anti idiot car drivers as the next rider but I think we have to do all we can to help ourselves, our horses and the riding community on the whole.
 
EQUIDAE said:
if the helicopters are looking for you if you fall off, they are more likely to find you if you are lit like a beacon
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Yes, and related to this, you might think you are visible as you ride out in daylight, but in the event of a fall or a delay, you will NOT be visible without Hi Viz when you are trying to get back from the hack. Always ride kitted out to allow for later light and temperature conditions...
 
I think it should be made a law as such but more of an advisory law. You are advised to wear hi vis if on a horse/motorbike/bicycle etc. If you choose not to that is your choice. However if you are then involved in an accident the driver is not liable as you could have made yourself seen. Same for hats really it's your choice to avoid becoming a vegetable or dead. If you don't wish to fine but can't really expect sympathy if you collide with a car and find your head can't withstand sudden contact with metal/tarmac.

I just don't feel it's right for the driver to not only have to deal with having hurt/killed someone but be punished for the other person's stupidity too. Hardly fair.
 
I definitely think legislation should be bought in, for bikes and horse riders on the road. My horse is black, I know he blends in lovely with the branches so I never take him, or any of our other horses out without hi viz.
Personal choice it may be, but how would you feel if your horse was hit because the driver didn't see you in time? I am not a nutcase in my car, but the number of near misses I have had because I simply couldn't see people on the road is amazing.
 
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Not enough people ride horses for the government to bother trying to put in legislation to protect them more, so it is put down to "personal choice". However if some idiot wants to make themselves easier to knock down and killed on a public road because they can't be seen died in Hi Viz (get it) then that's up to them. Obviously I would then feel sorry for the poor animal being hit (not the rider), but then the poor horse has no choice anyway. I wear Hi Viz to give drivers more time to see me, it won't make any difference to the drivers who drive too close or fast; in only of the fact I can prove that the driver couldn't say "I couldn't see them" if anything did happen.
Before people complain about using the word idiot then yes that is what I think, you are an idiot if you don't do as much as possible to protect both yourself and your horse if going out on the road, because no one else is going to defend you in court if your horse gets splatted and you can't walk because of not wearing a bit of pink or bright yellow.
 
Goldenstar said:
They would have to live with the fact that THEY where driving in an unsuitable way for the road conditions they would not be allowed to hit a small grey car and blame the car for being grey .
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Yet if it were driving their small grey car in the dark or fog with no lights on, they would become somewhat culpable wouldn't they!
 
Out of interest, has anyone defending not wearing Hi Viz ever seen an accident where a big animal such as a horse, moose, deer, or anything of that size has gone through a windshield?

At least with a horse on the road you do have a choice to make it visible. If not for your own personal safety or that of you horse, then for the sake of the people in the cars you pass.
 
windseywoo said:
Not enough people ride horses for the government to bother trying to put in legislation to protect them more, so it is put down to "personal choice". However if some idiot wants to make themselves easier to knock down and killed on a public road because they can't be seen died in Hi Viz (get it) then that's up to them. Obviously I would then feel sorry for the poor animal being hit (not the rider), but then the poor horse has no choice anyway. I wear Hi Viz to give drivers more time to see me, it won't make any difference to the drivers who drive too close or fast; in only of the fact I can prove that the driver couldn't say "I couldn't see them" if anything did happen.
Before people complain about using the word idiot then yes that is what I think, you are an idiot if you don't do as much as possible to protect both yourself and your horse if going out on the road, because no one else is going to defend you in court if your horse gets splatted and you can't walk because of not wearing a bit of pink or bright yellow.
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Just like I think people who hack out with poor positions are total idiots they look like think their hi vis will save them from their lack of balance .
And your far more likely to be dumped by a spook at a peasant than hit by a car they your horse is loose on the road endangering others .
But it's not PC to say that .
 
Goldenstar said:
Just like I think people who hack out with poor positions are total idiots they look like think their hi vis will save them from their lack of balance .
And your far more likely to be dumped by a spook at a peasant than hit by a car they your horse is loose on the road endangering others .
But it's not PC to say that .
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Lock the peasants up when one wants to ride, my dear!!
 
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FfionWinnie said:
Yet if it were driving their small grey car in the dark or fog with no lights on, they would become somewhat culpable wouldn't they!
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There's no reason for being on the road in dark or in the fog on a horse .
No ones talking about riding at night or in bad weather hi vis is no excuse to be out in situations like that .
 
From the Highway Code
Horse riders (rules 49 to 55)
Rule 49
Safety equipment. Children under the age of 14 MUST wear a helmet which complies with the Regulations. It MUST be fastened securely. Other riders should also follow these requirements. These requirements do not apply to a child who is a follower of the Sikh religion while wearing a turban.

Laws H(PHYR) Act 1990, sect 1 & H(PHYR) Regulations 1992, reg 3

Rule 50
Other clothing. You should wear

boots or shoes with hard soles and heels
light-coloured or fluorescent clothing in daylight
reflective clothing if you have to ride at night or in poor visibility.
Rule 50: Help yourself to be seen

Rule 50: Help yourself to be seen
Rule 51
At night. It is safer not to ride on the road at night or in poor visibility, but if you do, make sure you wear reflective clothing and your horse has reflective bands above the fetlock joints. A light which shows white to the front and red to the rear should be fitted, with a band, to the rider’s right arm and/or leg/riding boot. If you are leading a horse at night, carry a light in your right hand, showing white to the front and red to the rear, and wear reflective clothing on both you and your horse. It is strongly recommended that a fluorescent/reflective tail guard is also worn by your horse.

Riding
Rule 52
Before you take a horse on to a road, you should

ensure all tack fits well and is in good condition
make sure you can control the horse.
Always ride with other, less nervous horses if you think that your horse will be nervous of traffic. Never ride a horse without both a saddle and bridle.

Rule 53
Before riding off or turning, look behind you to make sure it is safe, then give a clear arm signal.

When riding on the road you should

keep to the left
keep both hands on the reins unless you are signalling
keep both feet in the stirrups
not carry another person
not carry anything which might affect your balance or get tangled up with the reins
keep a horse you are leading to your left
move in the direction of the traffic flow in a one-way street
never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.
Rule 54
You MUST NOT take a horse onto a footpath or pavement, and you should not take a horse onto a cycle track. Use a bridleway where possible. Equestrian crossings may be provided for horse riders to cross the road and you should use these where available (see Rule 27). You should dismount at level crossings where a ‘horse rider dismount’ sign is displayed.

Laws HA 1835 sect 72, R(S)A 1984, sect 129(5)

Rule 55
Avoid roundabouts wherever possible. If you use them you should

keep to the left and watch out for vehicles crossing your path to leave or join the roundabout
signal right when riding across exits to show you are not leaving
signal left just before you leave the roundabout.
 
teapot said:
I'd like to see Hi Viz become the law for ANYONE who uses the road without four wheels. Cyclists, horse riders, motorbikers, just a blanket rule. I can't remember the last time I rode out onto roads, but I do remember the jury service I did this year, which was car versus motorbike, and I remember the photos vividly, and just how poor vision can be, even on the brightest of days...

Oh and if we are law changing, make the drink driving limit zero. No ifs, buts, maybes, the choice is drink OR drive.
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Yes to all that.

I no longer live in the UK, or insure my horses, so am not up to date on insurance etc, but did I read that insurance is invalidated if horse and rider were not wearing at least one item of hi-viz?
When I kept my horses on a yard in Wales it was yard policy that hi-viz was worn on all horses leaving the yard, many of whom were ridden by children. You didn't like it, you didn't keep your horse there, simple, we always had a waiting list.
 
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Interesting fact:
Studies comparing motorcycle riders dressed head to toe in hi-viz versus those dressed only in black found car drivers 'saw' the rider in black, both consciously and sub consciously, much more often and earlier than they saw 'dayglo Dave'. People are simply more scared of hells angels so our brain pays more attention. I sometimes wonder if similar scare tactics led to the invention of those adorable lycra outfits cyclists favour.

I'm offering this snippet of info to lighten the tone. Father Christmas kindly added to my high-viz wardrobe recently and I am grateful.
 
Not wearing Hi Viz is one thing, but even then I wish people, whether on horseback or pedestrians, would have the presence of mind to put on some colours. Wearing all black, or browns, or muted colours might look stylish but will blend anyone in with the edges of the road even in daylight. At least wear something that breaks with the environment a little, and try to wear more colours than one!
 
Yes it should be law because by not wearing Hi Viz you are not only risking yourself (which is your business), but also your horse who doesn't have a say in the matter, and also other road users who may not see you until the last minute..... not to mention the affect on your loved ones if you were to get killed or injured in an accident that a bit of Hi Viz could have prevented.....I honestly don't understand why people have a problem with it?
 
zzClaire said:
Interesting fact:
Studies comparing motorcycle riders dressed head to toe in hi-viz versus those dressed only in black found car drivers 'saw' the rider in black, both consciously and sub consciously, much more often and earlier than they saw 'dayglo Dave'. People are simply more scared of hells angels so our brain pays more attention. I sometimes wonder if similar scare tactics led to the invention of those adorable lycra outfits cyclists favour.

I'm offering this snippet of info to lighten the tone. Father Christmas kindly added to my high-viz wardrobe recently and I am grateful.
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Interesting, do you have a link to said studies?
 
What surprises me is that on this forum, which can be a little bit fluffy bunny at times, the non-hi-viz-wearing supporters don't seem to be more worried about the safety of their horses. Freedom of choice in wearing hi-viz or not, or blaming car drivers for not driving carefully enough to avoid hitting a horse and rider, pale into insignificance when it comes to the option of potentially safeguarding our horses (who don't have any choice in the matter) when we decide to take them on the roads. Regardless of "research", if hi-viz can possibly keep your horse safer, and it doesn't take much to use it, then why wouldn't you?
 
tankgirl1 said:
Interesting, do you have a link to said studies?
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I referenced it in an essay a few years ago so will dig it out for you (It'll be tomorrow at best) but it isn't a study on road safety; it's a psych study on perception and the influence of stone age human reactions and what it means in a modern world.
 
Yes I do think it should be the law to wear hi-viz on a public highway when on a horse or bike. The number of cyclists I've come accross in BLACK clothing at night on a busy road (some of them IN THE MIDDLE of said road / weaving about all over the shop) is scary. Cars are larger and noisier and SHOULD have their lights on (and if parked then you still get reflection from the headlights / paint) hence no need for them to be painted fluorescent colours :)

If the data isn't out there to prove that hi-viz makes you easier to see and means you can be seen easier (and tbh I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least SOME data to support this as it's rather self-evident) then I'm sure it would be an easy theory to test!
 
Boulty said:
Y The number of cyclists I've come accross in BLACK clothing at night on a busy road (some of them IN THE MIDDLE of said road / weaving about all over the shop) is scary.
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I stepped out in front of a cyclist recently when crossing on a zebra crossing, I genuinely didn't see him or her though I had looked in that direction, this is in london so I always look and never assume people will stop until I see them slow down, no lights and dark clothing, completely blended in.

I also walk from the yard to a train station, it's commuterville so lots of people walk up from the station to the village after working in london but there's no pavement so you're walking on the side of the road and a couple of blind bends en route. Amazing how many are in dark clothes and I nearly walk into them. Luckily they can see me as if it's not cold enough that I have on my bright pink hi viz (which also has reflective strips); I have some reflective flashing arms bands that I keep in my bag and carry a torch.

However even though I think it's stupid not to take steps to make yourself visible, I'm not sure if I'd make it law.
 
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