Gelding 'covering' mares. Wwyd

[Tom&Tierney]

Hi everyone ?
I'm pretty new to the forum, so please forgive me if a) this topic has been covered before and b) I ramble a little (it's my age haha) I will try to keep this as short as possible so as not to bore you all, but would appreciate any advice or suggestions.
I keep my mare at a fantastic little DIY yard, and both she and I are very happy there. Not the best facilities, but excellent year round turnout, lovely, roomy stables, and the other liveries (both human and equine alike) are wonderful. We've been here well over a year, and other than a self inflicted injury on her leg (my mare is VERY special when she wants to be ?) everything has been great.
About three months ago a married couple moved to the yard (they were liveries here previously im told, but before my time) they brought with them their two horses, a young cob filly and some kind of mixed breed thing. The little filly is a peach, no issues with her at all. The 'thing however was a nightmare! The biggest bully I have ever seen. I think every other horse on the yard, mine included, has had some sort of minor injury from it. Anyways, our yard owner spoke to the wife and told her that it either got sorted or they would be asked to leave. The brilliant solution they found was to sell this thing on. Not what I would have done personally, but these people claimed they didn't have the time to instil any ground manners etc ?
Problem solved you would have thought.
Alas, no!
Five weeks ago I arrived at the yard one morning to sort out my dopey mare and found that sometime between the hours of 9pm and 6am, this couple had acquired a new horse and it was happily munching away in the stable across from mine.
Now comes the fun part lol. This new pony seemingly appears perfect (compared to their last thing) hes about 14hh, chunky coloured cob, very sweet, and im told is an angel to handle, rides great etc. Yay!
Now our turnout is herd turnout, its what we as owners prefer and our horses seem to prefer it too. And again, we've had absolutely no problems at all. The herd has its hierarchy sorted, everyone knows their place yada yada.
The new pony was isolated for two weeks in our isolation paddock while he was wormed, deliced etc and to give the other horses a chance to meet him without him being in the herd (if that makes sense)
He was turned out (under supervision) for the first time three weeks ago. No fighting as such, but within minutes of him being out in the paddock he had rounded up all the mares and proceeded to mount each and every one of them in turn! My own included. Cue lots of stepping in from various people trying to curb his enthusiasm. Didn't help nor did it work.
At every opportunity this pony gathers his mares and literally spends the day covering them. One after another and back to the start.
Now after 40 years of horse ownership I know that some geldings can be like this, especially if they were cut late, however, this pony is now causing injury to the mares (from teeth and hooves) one of the poor girls actually came in covered in blood the other day, it was literally dripping down her back legs ?
The owner of this mare spoke to the couple (read yelled like a banshee) and explained that they needed to sort this out as none of us want or need our horses injured. The husband just said that if we didn't like it, keep our mares indoors!
Now we have spoken with the yard owner who in turn has told us that this pony is 'apparently' gelded, but has only ever been I individual turnout or with geldings. And that yes, if we don't like his 'playful' behaviour, we can keep ours indoors. She has advised the owners to start feeding this pony some supplements to 'calm' him.
Now as I said, I appreciate some horse do behave this way, but some of the mares are getting hurt now and that in my opinion is more than 'playful behaviour'
I know some of you will suggest moving yards if we're not happy, but the area where we live isn't exactly good for livery yards, there ate just 3 within a twenty five mile radius, and all 3 are full (I've actually been on the waiting list for one of them for three and a half years, spaced just don't come up very often) so moving isn't as easy as it sounds. And the set up at the yard doesn't give the option for individual turnout either ?
So, any suggestions other than locking our mares up? I'm really at a loss as to what to do now.

 

[Kat]

If your yard owner would rather side with one livery over many then I don't think you have much option but to move.

Last ditch attempt you could get all the mare owners to jointly approach the yard owner, perhaps with a letter documenting the injuries, and try to make her see that she risks losing several of you.

You could offer to split the field yourselves so this other owner can have their two horses separate.

But honestly I wouldn't be risking my mare in that situation.

 

[Melody Grey]

I wouldn’t find this acceptable at all and find it odd that the YO is condoning the geldings behaviour if it’s causing injuries (if I’ve read that correctly).

I know mixed herds can work and I’ve had my own, but is there a possibility of separate mare/ geldings turnout? I’d be voting with my feet if not!

ETA: can the gelding go out separately or when everything else is in if the others are brought in?

 

[BaronSamedi]

How do you know he is not a rig? A true rig can get mares in foal, then you will have even more problems, He needs separating and testing by a vet asap. If my mare came in covered in blood in this situation and I got that answer from the owner, he would find himself covered on blood too

 

[Goldenstar]

All the mare owners have to move quickly .
Logic would say the naughty gelding needs to be a field on his own or with a couple of chosen companions .
you may be able to achieve this by all the mare owners getting and making plans to view other yards etc etc and talking about this might get the dopey yard owner to do her job and manage the yard .

 

[AdorableAlice]

Yard owner/manager sounds like she/he is lacking in common sense and experience. Surely all the other owners of mares are not happy with the dominant behaviour and injuries being incurred ?

All horses are individuals and at times there will be an individual who does not follow the text book and needs to be provided with specific care for its needs. The coloured cob could easily have been a colt for a good while before gelding. I have a very elderly gelding who was a serving stallion before I had him, and even today he would get on a mare given the chance. My one mare will wind him up over the fencing and it is very evident what is coming next.

I hope you can get suitable arrangements to keep your horse safe, perhaps you and the other mare owners could speak to the yard owner and ask for sexed turnout.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It does sound like you'll ultimately have to move. Why the YO thinks this is ok and that the mares should just stay inside is beyond me.

The other thing you (and other mare owners) could offer is to build a separate field/area for the mares. Could even be fencing (double and electric) part of the current field. Which may or may not deter the "gelding" from getting to them.

I'm sort of surprised none of the mares have clocked him one in return, but depends on the horses I guess.

Man, I hate livery sometimes.

 

[MissTyc]

The YO is possibly being negligent allowing this to continue. In our herd, mounting is very common, but in all the years we've run the her we've only had one related injury (other than scuff marks or bites, but they do those to each other in play as well). That injury was pretty severe to the poor mare (I say "poor" but she was quite a willing participant in the violent sexual activities) and the gelding had to move into a paddock with another gelding until the spring seasons were over. For what it's worth, I have often seen more extreme/enthusiastic mounting in the spring during 1st and 2nd seasons only for the boys to lose all interest for the rest of the year.

 

[Wizpop]

Yard owner is really not doing the right thing as far as I can see.
Is it not true that, as she is taking money for livery, she has a “duty of care”? I would look into this as she could be liable for any injuries to the mares.
Seems as though she is making minimal effort to sort this when some electric fencing could easily solve the problem.
just a ridiculous and worrying situation for all the mare owners and simply shouldn’t be happening!

 

[deb_l222]

This isn't acceptable at all and I'm surprised you have allowed this to go on for three weeks!! Anyway, enough about that and what you need to do now.

All the mare owners need to speak to the yard owner and share your concerns. At this point, don't even get into a conversation with the owner of the gelding. This is pointless as it sounds like they will just defend their horse regardless and cannot see that this behavior isn't acceptable. This isn't about going in there ranting and shouting but this isn't acceptable livery yard behavior from the 'gelding'. The yard owner has a duty of care to ALL their customers, not just one and deliberately putting a 'problem' horse in with a settled herd is contravening that duty of care.

This happened to me at my yard. New gelding arrived, loved the mares (too much), was aggressive with the other geldings to the point of injuring them. Livery was advised this wasn't acceptable and was removed from the mixed herd field (after 2 days). Had one further chance in the geldings field but systematically attacked them all within the first 90 minutes of being turned out. Livery (and horse) was asked to leave the yard that day. She was however given time to find somewhere else but the horse wasn't allowed turnout again.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Is there only one field? I would worry that the gelding might go through electric fencing to get to the mares.

Could you temporarily have geldings out during the day and mares out at night?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I forgot, we also had a gelding that was too into the mares at the yard. Part of the gelding field bordered a corner of the mares field (double fencing and space in between) and one gelding would not let other geldings into that part of the field. He was also aggressive to humans and/or humans with horses (bringing them in) walking through that area. A few liveries expressed concern to the YO and the gelding moved to solo turnout. Owner was fine with it, other liveries fine with it. Life moved on. No drama. So a decent YO will find a way and want to keep others on the yard safe.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

YO needs to step up and sort this out. There is no reason why the owners 2 horses can't share a field, is there? Then owner might find they have to do something different, too.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Yard owner need to sort single sex turnout ASAP. There's not a lot the owners of the shagger can do to "sort it" without the yard owner facilitating separate turnout. It does sound like you're expecting them to be able to change their horse's in field behaviour? That's not really possible. But they and the YO should definitely be taking steps to immediately protect the mares.

Mixed sex AND mixed owner turnout rarely works out well in my experience.

The owners also do need to get the shagger vet checked in case he's a rig. If he is you might all have bigger problems. I hope the mare thar came in bloody got a vet check and the bill has been forwarded to the yard owner or the shagger's owners...

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

My old boy did this. Nobody complained as the mares were standing asking him for it so he obliged. Nature is what it is and unless there are specific injuries being caused then I don’t see the harm in it personally, having had him do it with my mares for years before I moved to livery.

Not a rig and in 18yrs he never sired anything. No fights ever happened because of it and the herd was stable

 

[Birker2020]

Hi everyone ?
I'm pretty new to the forum, so please forgive me if a) this topic has been covered before and b) I ramble a little (it's my age haha) I will try to keep this as short as possible so as not to bore you all, but would appreciate any advice or suggestions.
I keep my mare at a fantastic little DIY yard, and both she and I are very happy there. Not the best facilities, but excellent year round turnout, lovely, roomy stables, and the other liveries (both human and equine alike) are wonderful. We've been here well over a year, and other than a self inflicted injury on her leg (my mare is VERY special when she wants to be ?) everything has been great.
About three months ago a married couple moved to the yard (they were liveries here previously im told, but before my time) they brought with them their two horses, a young cob filly and some kind of mixed breed thing. The little filly is a peach, no issues with her at all. The 'thing however was a nightmare! The biggest bully I have ever seen. I think every other horse on the yard, mine included, has had some sort of minor injury from it. Anyways, our yard owner spoke to the wife and told her that it either got sorted or they would be asked to leave. The brilliant solution they found was to sell this thing on. Not what I would have done personally, but these people claimed they didn't have the time to instil any ground manners etc ?
Problem solved you would have thought.
Alas, no!
Five weeks ago I arrived at the yard one morning to sort out my dopey mare and found that sometime between the hours of 9pm and 6am, this couple had acquired a new horse and it was happily munching away in the stable across from mine.
Now comes the fun part lol. This new pony seemingly appears perfect (compared to their last thing) hes about 14hh, chunky coloured cob, very sweet, and im told is an angel to handle, rides great etc. Yay!
Now our turnout is herd turnout, its what we as owners prefer and our horses seem to prefer it too. And again, we've had absolutely no problems at all. The herd has its hierarchy sorted, everyone knows their place yada yada.
The new pony was isolated for two weeks in our isolation paddock while he was wormed, deliced etc and to give the other horses a chance to meet him without him being in the herd (if that makes sense)
He was turned out (under supervision) for the first time three weeks ago. No fighting as such, but within minutes of him being out in the paddock he had rounded up all the mares and proceeded to mount each and every one of them in turn! My own included. Cue lots of stepping in from various people trying to curb his enthusiasm. Didn't help nor did it work.
At every opportunity this pony gathers his mares and literally spends the day covering them. One after another and back to the start.
Now after 40 years of horse ownership I know that some geldings can be like this, especially if they were cut late, however, this pony is now causing injury to the mares (from teeth and hooves) one of the poor girls actually came in covered in blood the other day, it was literally dripping down her back legs ?
The owner of this mare spoke to the couple (read yelled like a banshee) and explained that they needed to sort this out as none of us want or need our horses injured. The husband just said that if we didn't like it, keep our mares indoors!
Now we have spoken with the yard owner who in turn has told us that this pony is 'apparently' gelded, but has only ever been I individual turnout or with geldings. And that yes, if we don't like his 'playful' behaviour, we can keep ours indoors. She has advised the owners to start feeding this pony some supplements to 'calm' him.
Now as I said, I appreciate some horse do behave this way, but some of the mares are getting hurt now and that in my opinion is more than 'playful behaviour'
I know some of you will suggest moving yards if we're not happy, but the area where we live isn't exactly good for livery yards, there ate just 3 within a twenty five mile radius, and all 3 are full (I've actually been on the waiting list for one of them for three and a half years, spaced just don't come up very often) so moving isn't as easy as it sounds. And the set up at the yard doesn't give the option for individual turnout either ?
So, any suggestions other than locking our mares up? I'm really at a loss as to what to do now.

Sounds like the horse in question is either a rig (has retained some testicular tissue) or is a false rig (was gelded correctly and completely but its in his mind).

The owner can sort this out easily enough by getting the horse blood tested to find out but as they won't want to and the yard owner is a complete muppet by siding with them, then you really have no choice to move. I'm sorry you have such a pathetic and ignorant YO.

This happened with a previous horse of mine, who I was told was mounting other geldings - we had about 40 geldings out in around 60 acres or so. My gelding had been gelded at 7 so fairly late. I spent hours down the field with a camcorder trying to tape any activity to show it wasn't my horse but of course none got injured whilst I was there. He had a blood test although I was certain it wasn't him causing the injuries to the other horses and he was declared ' a false rig'. The vet said I could use a product unlicensed for use on horses if I signed a disclaimer. It was called Depo Provera. So he was injected with this so he could go back and join the other geldings as he was on permanently stuck in his stable 24 hours a day as the YO wouldn't let him out with anything.

My horse and I were at a show one day and one of the liveries horses got absolutely battered in the field. I left the yard as I felt I'd lost all faith and trust in my so called friends who had made my life so miserable saying it was my horse all the time when it obviously wasn't

My horse dropped dead about a year after the final 3 injections with a suspected heart attack in the paddock. I will never know to this day if I signed his death warrant by agreeing to get him injected with this hormone. I spoke to my own vet years later and he said that horses gelded late often have issues with their heart and can be at increased risk of sudden death.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

My old boy did this. Nobody complained as the mares were standing asking him for it so he obliged. Nature is what it is and unless there are specific injuries being caused then I don’t see the harm in it personally, having had him do it with my mares for years before I moved to livery.

Not a rig and in 18yrs he never sired anything. No fights ever happened because of it and the herd was stable

Unfortunately there have been injuries.

however, this pony is now causing injury to the mares (from teeth and hooves) one of the poor girls actually came in covered in blood the other day, it was literally dripping down her back legs

 

[milliepops]

why can't the gelding's owners horses go in the isolation paddock while this is worked out?

I would be very unhappy about this and I am also surprised it's carried on this long. A friend's gelding mounted one of my mares years ago, it was a shame as they'd been happily sharing a field for a while but it needed nipping in the bud so he was put out with geldings only after that. It's not without risk to the mare or the gelding if the mare kicks out etc.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yeahhh, personally I don't care if the mare "wants it" and it happens without harm a few times, it ain't happenin' on my watch. Too risky to both the gelding and the mare for a variety of reasons. They've got 1000 other ways to maim themselves anyway

Putting the ambitious gelding in his own area while it is figured out would be the easiest and most logical thing, but apparently also impossible. Which is...mind boggling.

 

[Lipglosspukka]

All mare owners go together, at the same time to see the yard owner and make it clear that if the gelding isn't removed from the herd, then you will ALL be considering moving your horses to another yard.

Bluff or not, that should be enough to get the outcome you are after if there is enough of you.

 

[Auslander]

Completely ridiculous. I have a shagger here (Yes, Alf, I mean you) and although he is very gentlemanly, I now keep same sex herds, rather than letting him have his wicked way. The risk of injury is too high, to him as well as the girls, and I cannot be doing with the noise!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Some geldings just can't be turned out with mares so unless the yo is willing to separate I would go, I wouldn't risk my mare going out with a gelding that mounts.

 

[fredflop]

I’ve had a mare that was turned out with a yearling/two year old gelding. Flipping thing was always jumping on her sides, and back. Although he didn’t appear to be mounting for “inserting” into her, it must have been horrid for her. He literally would not leave her alone, and it was constantly throughout the day. It would have helped if she’d have turned around and double barrelled him. I was glad when the gelding moved fields.

on a separate yard, YO didn’t really think about what horses were put in with others. Small group turnout, some single sex, some mixed, just depended on who turned up at what time. Ie if the person I was sharing a field with had two geldings in with a mare, it was that space that was free, and whatever horse came along next would get bunged in there.

 

[Petalpoos]

If your YO is taking that approach, which is totally unreasonable, then I suggest you move your horse ASAP as it is probably a precursor to a whole load of issues in future.

 

[Parrotperson]

1, he may be a rig. this needs checking urgently. Bloods need to be taken by the vet.
2, I would never stay at a yard where the mares and geldings went in together. They should be separated. One gelding herd one mare herd. If the YO cant be bothered to sort it get together with the other mare owners and have a conversation. Tell her she'll be paying the vets bills for injuries

I'd be very cross.

 

[oldie48]

Little Fatty (12hh) had to go back to his owner as Rose (16hh) was more than willing to let him climb on her back when she was in season. She was willing to get in a ditch if it helped! I wasn't prepared to put up with it as they also ran round the paddocks like lunatics and when Rose wasn't in season she wanted to kick his head in. Little Fatty wasn't a rig nor was he cut late and owner told me she'd also had problems. He came originally to be companion to Mr B so I'd had him a couple of years so was rather sorry to see him go.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Not all mixed herds are disasters. Our yard has mixed turnout with no issues at all. In fact at one point my mare was the only mare turned out with 6 other geldings.

OP I wouldn't be happy with your situation. I agree that all the mare owners need to approach the yard owner and get them to sort this, or you will all be looking for a new yard. Be prepared to follow through with this threat however. I wouldn't leave my mare in this situation regardless of how good the yard was.