Genuine rugging question...

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Maybe, just maybe, moomin IS actually a bit in the wrong?whichever way anyone looks at it?

to be accusing me (and NMT indirectly) of not being able to make a sensible decision regarding the rugging of horses that we see every day, when moomin has never met the horses in question, AND as per the other rugging thread, knows very little about the medical condition CS has (i went to great lengths to explain on that thread that CS is HAPPIER in more rugs, and miserable in what many would consider a normal amount, and to try and set moomins minds at rest that he is never sweaty or itchy, but all the info was conviniently ignored so she could join in the bashing over here instead, sigh).

i dont consider it ridiculous that a horse that gets muscle sore if cold, is more rugged than your horse, or that Fig, who is an incredibly poor doer, is also kept a bit more rugged than a more hardy horse. I have at no point bashed you for NOT rugging, because i do not know your horse.

Yes lucky you if your horse is more low maintenance, but i still dont understadn why that makes it ok for you to bash myself and NMT for chosing high maintenance horses and then looking after them to the Nth degree because they ARE high mainteance?

I havent told you your mare needs more rugs, because i dont know her, so why cant you apply the same polite common sense that says i know CS better than you? I havent got him to his current level by being a moron, so perhaps give me the benefit of the doubt and accept im not boiling him to death in his own rugs?!
 

doriangrey

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This is my mare galloping up for her tea in winter. As long as she is happy and comfortable like this I'm happy too. She's absolutely precious to me :eek: and as she's 23 I keep a close eye on her wellbeing. When she starts getting cold or I see that she's dropping weight I'll change my management to include rugging her up. I said before in my earlier post, I'll know what's best for her just as others will know what is best for theirs. Sorry for the cheesy music, she's not even black :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6KZ_DT1r2g
 
Joined
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This is my mare galloping up for her tea in winter. As long as she is happy and comfortable like this I'm happy too. She's absolutely precious to me :eek: and as she's 23 I keep a close eye on her wellbeing. When she starts getting cold or I see that she's dropping weight I'll change my management to include rugging her up. I said before in my earlier post, I'll know what's best for her just as others will know what is best for theirs. Sorry for the cheesy music, she's not even black :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6KZ_DT1r2g
i shall watch at home, as IT spies have banned youtube at work :(
 

doriangrey

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i shall watch at home, as IT spies have banned youtube at work :(
Mind you I fully realise how easy she is to do. She has no health problems, great teeth and an excellent winter coat, and of course she's retired so has a pretty easy life. At the end of the day rugging is just one part of keeping our horses happy and healthy. Yours look fab btw, I wouldn't be worrying too much about what people say about them :)
 

Fools Motto

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Going back to my question, genuine one at that, WHEN did full necks become the thing to use? What happened before them? And, why/how does it make a difference? Horses don't shiver out of their necks?
I personally don't agree with rugging natives upto their eyeballs, but am happy to agree with others that each horse (owner) should (hopefully) manage their steeds to individual needs.
Rugs however, should not, IMO, be used as a quick grooming fix - or lack of grooming. I often see 'he ONLY wears it to keep him clean'.. I think that is lazy and poor management.
 

Honey08

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Can't tell you when full necks came in, it was between the mid 90s and 2000s when I didn't have horses. Previously we used to have jute rugs and put blankets under them, folded back at the neck so they were trapped under the roller which fastened the rugs. If you were lucky you had a Whitney blanket, if not you begged blankets off family or charity shops! Turnout rugs were heavy new zealands that you didn't really change when you re clipped - sometimes you would put a stable rug underneath, but they would often slip.

I miss blankets because they looked lovely and I was fab at doing them, but full necks do help - you would find the neck hair on a clipped horse would quickly grow back and a horse that gets hot would sweat.. I find I don't have to clip half as much nowadays as the rugs keep their necks warm and the hair short..
 

PolarSkye

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Going back to my question, genuine one at that, WHEN did full necks become the thing to use? What happened before them? And, why/how does it make a difference? Horses don't shiver out of their necks?
I personally don't agree with rugging natives upto their eyeballs, but am happy to agree with others that each horse (owner) should (hopefully) manage their steeds to individual needs.
Rugs however, should not, IMO, be used as a quick grooming fix - or lack of grooming. I often see 'he ONLY wears it to keep him clean'.. I think that is lazy and poor management.
First of all, I wholeheartedly agree that using neck rugs simply to keep horses clean is lazy . . . however, I guess (and I'm not a qualified equine physiologist) neck rugs are there to reduce the surface area of horse exposed to the elements/subject to heat loss . . . a little like us wearing a scarf/hat? Yes, horses have fur on their necks, but those who are clipped might need a little extra insulation in the coldest/wettest weather? After all, their necks are a nice big flat surface area that could (when clipped/covered in finer coat) wick heat way?

Feel free to tell me if I am completely barking up the wrong tree . . . and, yes, I do use a neck cover in the worst weather on my fine coated/clipped in winter sport horse.

P
 

WelshD

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Someone recently produced an article that said something along the lines of rugs with necks are warmer than a thicker rug with no neck - I cant remember the science or proof behind it but it was very interesting reading

Personally in the stable I prefer standard necks and blankets but outside I prefer combos as my pony loathes the rain and wind

Someone mentioned earlier about horses in very cold countries. I have been to Finnish Lapland several times and the horses there are often without rugs but the cold there is drier, snow is powdery and not slushy as we get here. with the wet and damp weather we often get here even a little chilly weather seems so much colder so I don't think its always a fair comparison. I have been to New York and Lapland in the same month and been much colder in New York because it was very damp and windy
 
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chestnut cob

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Rugs however, should not, IMO, be used as a quick grooming fix - or lack of grooming. I often see 'he ONLY wears it to keep him clean'.. I think that is lazy and poor management.
I don't really see what business it is of anyone else's if people use a rug to keep a horse clean. If the horse isn't hot or upset, what's the problem? I bought mine in the other day after two days out in the field (he's out 24/7). He is unrugged, connie type, and it had rained for 2 days. He was covered, and I really do mean covered, from ears to tail and all over his legs, in mud about an inch thick. He was v pleased with himself and while it's nice that he can "be a horse", it wasn't so nice for me who had to brush it all off. I struggled to get him clean and I was covered in dust, mud and hair by the end. Had it all up my nose, in my mouth, hair, everywhere. So I can fully understand why people use rugs to keep horse's clean. It's not lazy. When time is limited, I can find other things more useful to be doing than spending half an hour getting mud off my filthy hippo of a horse. I'd much rather he had a rainsheet on then I can do a "normal" groom before riding, instead of needing to use every type of brush I own to get mud off.

Re. full necks. I like them. Keeps horse warmer. Just because people didn't do it 20 yrs ago doesn't mean it's wrong. Keeps horse cleaner, drier and warmer. When it's cold, if I'd had my hair all clipped off then I'd want to wear a hat! No different for the horse. You take away their hair and remove the natural mechanism for keeping warm, so you need to replace that.
 

nikkimariet

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This is my mare galloping up for her tea in winter. As long as she is happy and comfortable like this I'm happy too. She's absolutely precious to me :eek: and as she's 23 I keep a close eye on her wellbeing. When she starts getting cold or I see that she's dropping weight I'll change my management to include rugging her up. I said before in my earlier post, I'll know what's best for her just as others will know what is best for theirs. Sorry for the cheesy music, she's not even black :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6KZ_DT1r2g
She is one fuzzy mucky lady!!! Couldn't hear music, but love that she comes right up to you :)

Rugs however, should not, IMO, be used as a quick grooming fix - or lack of grooming. I often see 'he ONLY wears it to keep him clean'.. I think that is lazy and poor management.
Having had 3 greys I disagree ;)

PS & NMT -

Please do not feel the need to justify your rugging routines for anyone on HHO, sane or mildly unhinged.
Lol!!!!
 

Kat

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NMT £120 a month on hard feed :eek:

This is *one* of the reasons I love reading about Fig, he makes madam sound low maintenance! I'm not sure what I spend at the moment, I avoid adding it all up! But it is plenty. My hard feed and haylage consumption raise lots of eyebrows on our yard!

Oh and back on topic, this week I used a heavier rug than I wanted. The sudden cold weather meant a LW wasn't enough and the rug I would usually use at this time of year wasn't back from the cleaner. I was very surprised to find it made a positive difference to ridden work. So I will be rugging more than usual this winter.
 

Megibo

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I wouldn't have a heavyweight on at the moment, no! Depends on the horse though.
I have just sold a 14.3 sec D mare who very sensitive to cold and needed rugging up more than my current welsh D of 8 years. She's got a 350g rug somewhere but she's probably only ever worn it once! She's got a 200g mediumweight rug that she doesn't wear unless it snows and that's with a full clip. Otherwise she wears a 100g which sounds cruel but whenever I stick my hand around her ears/on her armpit/shoulder she's nice and warm so.
If she's not clipped or ridden over winter she stays naked and gets mammoth hair lol.
 
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NMT £120 a month on hard feed :eek:

This is *one* of the reasons I love reading about Fig, he makes madam sound low maintenance! I'm not sure what I spend at the moment, I avoid adding it all up! But it is plenty. My hard feed and haylage consumption raise lots of eyebrows on our yard!

Oh and back on topic, this week I used a heavier rug than I wanted. The sudden cold weather meant a LW wasn't enough and the rug I would usually use at this time of year wasn't back from the cleaner. I was very surprised to find it made a positive difference to ridden work. So I will be rugging more than usual this winter.
thats interesting, good to know someone else notices it too :)
 

RunToEarth

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Going back to my question, genuine one at that, WHEN did full necks become the thing to use? What happened before them? And, why/how does it make a difference? Horses don't shiver out of their necks?

Rugs however, should not, IMO, be used as a quick grooming fix - or lack of grooming. I often see 'he ONLY wears it to keep him clean'.. I think that is lazy and poor management.
No, they don't shiver out of their neck, quite right. When I was younger and parents were still in hunting/chasing the hunters all had blankets under waterproof but no fill old school New Zealands. They worked but there was a lot of washing muddy blankets and re clipping growth, over grooming of areas most exposed to weather.

I avoid necks until I think I need them, because they do rub manes. I have modern turnouts and do think that without a neck the rain will run down inside their rug.

I have no inclination to be grooming/washing/drying necks every evening because they are wet and muddy when it could have been prevented by a neck rug.

I draw the line at those hoods because I very nearly lost my last horse when he got it over his head. Lesson learned.
 

chestnut cob

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Oh and back on topic, this week I used a heavier rug than I wanted. The sudden cold weather meant a LW wasn't enough and the rug I would usually use at this time of year wasn't back from the cleaner. I was very surprised to find it made a positive difference to ridden work. So I will be rugging more than usual this winter.
It does make a difference to some horses I think. I had an arthritic shiverer who needed rugging a fair bit as he got older. Didn't necessarily need lots of rugs but was always best with something on. I noticed a big difference when I started rugging earlier; he moved better and was happier.
 

khalswitz

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I'm going to jump on the TB rugging bandwagon - my ex-racer EPSM TB (who was p2p/NH, so raced over the winter and roughed off in summer) had never been a winter out since he was broken, was bought in November and chucked into a field to live out 24/7. We managed - but he was NEVER at any point in the condition I would have liked, and he was fed bucketloads of hard feed, ad lib haylage and was unclipped in a 300gm heavyweight.

He is in a 180gm MW with a neck right now, as he was feeling the cold in the 100gm (it's been 6-7 degrees during the day, wet and windy, up here in NE Scotland over the last week, and he is on the side of a hill), and quite happy in that. But I will be pre-empting rugging him this year as once the weight goes it is so hard to get it back on - plus he gets tricky to ride due to the EPSM if cold, he's the first horse I've owned who needed an exercise sheet to hack/warm-up in otherwise he just gets unrideable.

In the coldest weather, on my previous WBxTB, when fully clipped, I had a 400gm hw with neck, and a fleece underneath. My current horse feels the cold so much more... and I didn't clip him last year because he wasn't doing a lot of fast work. By the end of last winter I was considering clipping as he was sweating up, but we held out - this year he will be getting a trace/chaser to start and we'll see how that goes. However he will probably need even more rugging!

I also think something to consider is that riding horses generally need a little more rugging than broodmares/youngstock/oldies - all horses is a field regulate their own temp, but it doesnt matter if an unridden horse is a little on the cold side as they can eat more and move more to heat up - the intermediate coldness doesn't matter too much. If you are trying to ride a horse that has been feeling a little cold and hasn't quite heated itself up yet (I find especially when riding in the evening when the temp is dropping again) then they tell you all about it!! So I would always err on the side of slightly over-rugging my ridden horses compared to unridden.

WRT necks on rugs, I have a grand total of two rugs with necks - one mw combo and one hw detachable. I don't use them often as I feel you can slightly over-rug and they can better lose heat if feeling a little warm if the neck is uncovered. However in deepest cold I do like one, espesh when clipped. I hate that one of my mws is a combo, but it was cheaper than a standard neck, and I only use it as an alternate mw for washing/repairing my other one (rug trasher that my thug is).
 

GlamourDol

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Medium weights on everything at work for the last few nights. But they have lighter rugs/thermatex on for the day. They were cold at last check, and not warm in the morning.
It really depends on what the horse is. I would not expect a cob to be rugged up yet, unless there was another reason, i.e. old etc.
Also trying to prolong the clipping! :D
 

1Lucie

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My boys does drop off weight wise even tho he's ish. But he's been in rain sheet, yesterday I put him in 200g with a no fill neck as he'd lost small amount of weight!
 

Hedwards

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Well for the first time ever I am feeling like I'm 'over rugging' my boy has had stomach ulcers, but is infinitely happier when he's kept warm, at night he's in a MW standard rug, during the day a LW. I've never ever rugged a horse in these sorts of temperatures, but he's so much happier now he is being rugged. Every horse is different, I personally wouldn't want more then 2 turnout rugs at any one time, maybe with a fleece or something underneath as a maximum, but that because I don't think modern rugs work as well with too many layers, they're supposed to be breathable 9 times out of 10... If there are too many layers they can't be breathable...? Anyway, each to their own!
 
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