Genuinely torn on what to do :-( Help please.

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EquestrianFairy

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I'm utterly torn on a horse I like:

She's a 15.3hh 5yo red and white colour tbx and won me over with her extra gentle ways.. She does, however.. Crib.

The owner: exceptionally honest about this vice has stated she would happily agree to a 6 month loan before any money is exchanged to be 100% sure that me and the horse are happy with each other and this vice which I have never had to deal with before.

My vet has said he feels I should walk away as the issues that come with cribbing such as colic, weight being hard to maintain at times etc.
My YO (an international SJ) Has said the same as my vet- walk away, find something less complicated.
- because these are professionals I sought the advice of a friend also..

Who (very nicely) said the same thing.

I'm utterly torn on what to do- I've been burned when buying before and tend to only opt for horses whos owners would allow a trial or LWVTB as this has worked well in the past for me after my inital expensive field ornament.

What would you do?
 
It wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me. Two of my friends' horses crib / windsuck with no ill effects. For them it is a psychological condition stemming from stress earlier in their lives (mistreatment / neglect).

There are a lot of misconceptions about cribbing / windsucking.

If you can take her on trial, why not do that?
 
It would depend for me on how much she cribs and when. Would she be fine with more turnout/different feed? If she is in a lot and stressed? Would a different routine help? Does she have ulcers??
If the owner is happy for a trial and you really like her then I would go for her. I am sure others would disagree but for me it would not definitely be a deal breaker it would just depend on the circumstances.

ETS just read Sheeps reply and agree entirely.
 
I cant see what you have to loose really, 6 months to decide whether you can live with it or not.

Only possible downside I can see is you getting fond of the horse and then having to let it go.

I assume it is priced to reflect this problem as you would have to expect a lower price if you ever sell it on.

I probably wouldn't choose one with a vice but there are a couple on our yard that do it. It hasn't caused any health problems and one hunts and team chases at a high level.
 
Hmmm, not sure...
Neighbours had a pony who cribbed and windsucked at mealtimes and when stressed.
They had an amazing 8 safe and happy pony club years with him, but he did get periodic colic episodes - the last of which was fatal. However it's debatable whether it was an internal melanoma or the colic from windsucking.
Only other thing to consider is that crib biting and windsucking is very often linked to ulcers... Something I'd want to investigate.
However if the Horse is priced sensibly, you've nothing to lose with a 6 month trial - nor have they going into winter, so win win all round
 
Also to add, some livery yards won't take cribbers, and you may find your horse sent to Coventry... I and many others wouldnt want my horse stabled next to one. No offence meant by this, but something for you to think about
 
Mist- I'm unable to answer of those questions because I don't really know. The owner bred her so I know it's not neglect, she is in at night and out by day in a small herd that she grew up in.

I don't think owner has had any checks for ulcers but I would pay to get it done for my own peace of mind.
 
How does your YO feel about having a cribber on the yard? Some won't have them as they can do some serious damage to fencing etc.

I had a cribber/windsucker who had gastric ulcers (used to be on an intensive dressage yard and stabled alot), he had 24/7 turn out with me and a high fibre diet, but he was never cured, however he never had colic.

Personally I wouldn't go for another cribber, it's just another thing to worry about!
 
I wouldn't want to take on a horse that was homebred and cribbed, to be honest, as I would be very concerned about the underlying problems. There are an awful lot of horses for sale out there, without vices and I would be looking for one of them.
 
Would she be in the same routine with you or would she have more/ less turnout? If I was to consider a cribber I would probably want it to live out and have electric fence inside the normal fencing so it had nothing to crib on that way I think it would be manageable. I think as long as you can find a yard that's happy to take her you have nothing to lose taking her on trial.
 
YO may not want a horse that cribs as some people believe that other horses will pick up the habit.

Ulcers are not caused by windsucking or crib-biting. They are caused by stress and most stable vices are a symptom of stress. Your prospective purchase may be better living out 24/7 if at all possible.
 
I have been in your situation, vet advised me to walk away from a little mare we liked years ago. She had worn away her teeth quite badly. Anyway I felt sorry for her and bought her.

I turned her out 24/7, so much more relaxed and less stressed.
 
I bought a crib biter.....he windsucked *all* the time, on anything.....however he only suffered from colic 3 times in his time with me, all of which I attribute to other causes than his windsucking....

It was a pain getting yards to accept him sometimes, though I never knew another horse pick it up from him.

He never appeared to suffer from weight issues and his performance never appeared to be affected.

He lived until he was 22, so not a bad age, though unfortunately, it was the 3rd colic that took him. He was my horse of a lifetime, and I would buy him again in a flash.....
 
My neighbour had a horse that cribbed. She had to let him do it as when she stopped him, it caused him to colic. So basically she left him a rail in the field wherehe could go and do it. He did wear his teeth down but then he also lived ino his twenties.

My friend bought a really sweet little mare that cribbed. Ex Racer who had fallen into the wrong hands and was very nervous at first. Over time with a high fibre diet and a stress free lifestyle (quiet handling as well as a horse friendly routine) her cribbing really reduced. And when my friend had to move her to a fieldwhere the only fencing was electric, she stopped completely. Unfortunately she did start up again when she was then moved to a busier yard again for a bit longer than she would have liked but no were near as much as she used to...

In your situation, I would have been put off viewing said horse in the first place but it sounds like she ticks quite a few boxes for you so why don't you take her on trial, make some dietary changes and see how you get on?
 
We have 2 cribbers at work - both full tbs. Neither have weight issues, colic or bad teeth. They crib less when out 24/7 in summer, when in it tends to be after a feed or exercise. Also had a cribber at college who again had no trouble with weight - in fact the opposite! Other horses never shown interest either at college or at current job. If horse ticked every other box it wouldn't put me off, and if you can loan her first then I'd go for it
 
I would personally go for it, i mean at least you won't have nothing to lose for 6 months. I have a cribber, and was aware of it when i bought her, she was also homebred by the seller but she had been kept in for most of her early life bar a few weeks before i bought her (she was 18mnths). Due to the breeders field being flooded i believe amongst other reasons and this is probably why she started cribbing.

She has never had colic in the 2 years i have had her, when i was looking to move yards and talking to different YO's none of them had a problem with it. Over time with a high fibre diet (no concentrates/cereals) and as much turnout as possible she has definitely reduced how much she cribs as she has recently been turned out in to a new field where she could crib on the posts but nobody has seen her do it yet. I do not know why some people don't like being stabled next to one, horses don't learn how to do it from another horse that cribs, collars can be used to stop them if needed and generally if you keep them from getting bored in a stable (lots of hay, toys etc.) they don't do it much. Also her teeth are perfectly normal and she most certainly doesn't have problems keeping weight on!

Personally i find weavers more annoying and it's definitely easier and cheaper than having a horse with sweet itch! Not sure i'd have another of them again but i would definitely have another cribber, no problem.
 
Most horses completely stop cribbing if living out 24/7 with another horse or few. Horses only have stable vices as a way of coping with stress, say for example, you have two hroses in stables next to each other and a big tractor is driving around the yard, then the horse thats cribbing or weaving etc, will ahve a lower heart rate that the horse stood still. (this has been proven), I would say if you like her than have the trial, and try her out with a friend for a few weeks and see how you get on. And yes most horses can live out in winter, just continous hay to keep her warm and lots of rugs, and a conditioning feed twice a day etc! and then if shes still cribbing or you unhappy then she can go back. Better the devil you know! You could always buy another 'perfect' horse and the minuite it steps off the box its the devil horse!
 
My friends horse cribbed and unfortunately had to be PTS at 16 because they couldn't keep weight on him in the winter, it was getting worse each year, and he was like a bag of bones in the end, something to do with not being able to absorb nutrients properly through the gut, from damage done from years of cribbing. So yes in some cases in can shorten a horses life by quite a bit! After this happened to her horse I said to myself I would definitely not ever buy one. I have known others that are absolutely fine though and lived a long time, BUT as your vet has already said, it can cause internal problems. If you have a good vet and he has advised you not to buy I would probably take his advice.
 
You've asked the advice of a trained professional - they advised against.
Same Q of YO where you would keep horse, they said same as professional.
Then asked trusted friend the same & they also agree with the above.

So, why are you asking the same on here? :confused: or is it one of those questions to ask that eventually someone will give an opposite opinion to the others - when they dont know you, never met the horse, dont know the yard, but they WILL agree with what you want to do? :o

Am confused.....
 
Also, one other thing you should consider, if you do buy it & intend to insure it, some companies will make exclusions for crib biters, they may not cover you for treatment for colic and other internal problems. I think a lot of companies these days will ask about vices when you take out a policy.
 
I've never had a cribber but I do have a weaver. I didn't knoww she weaved when I looked at her as she only does is when stressed. When she was delivered the owner said she does occasionally weave when stressed-not much I could do at that point as she was literally getting into her box to drive away! She proceeded to weave constantly for 3 days in her box-YO wouldn't let me turn her out til she had been wormed and then left in for 5 days!
Yard owner saw her weaving and asked me to remove her from the yard incase she taught others....everyone told me to send her back (she was on lwvtb) but something about her told me to give her a chance...found grass livery and chucked her out well rugged with our daughters Section A. That was in March and she hasn't weaved once since. She is amazing and everything I wanted, don't regret it one bit and yes I did decide to buy her! What I'm saying is, with a change of routine and total 'de-stress' she might be fine...if you like her I would give her a chance x
 
I wouldn't be totally put off, especially with having 6months to make a final decision.

Also worth noting that there is quite a bit of research now that suggests cribbing is hereditary, and therefore may not have anything to do with stress in her past.

Best of luck OP whatever you decide
 
Buy the horse! I have a cribber and she's never had any health problems and her teeth are fine.
And for those who believe that other horses copy the habit please read this thread: :)
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=464664

And no she isn't hard to keep weight on:
dc02d9d3.jpg
 
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We have had lots of horses that have cribbed and windsucked. Never affected them and it doesn't bother us. They cease to do it so much with us anyway with high fibre diet, turnout ect.
Some people at livery yards can be a bit funny about it, not sure why as there is scientific research that proves that horses do not copy vices.
My mums horse of a life-time was a windsucker. We had him for 20 years and he never colicked. However my mums old horse windsucked and he did die of colic but I can't say if it was related as he had never colicked before and didn't windsuck that much anymore anyway.

It's up to you. Personally it wouldn't bother me at all, especially as you are able to have a trial. :)
 
You've already had quite a lot of good advice, and there will always be people on both sides of the cribbing debate.

In my opinion, it really boils down to management and also weigh it up against how much of a 'one off' horse she is. If you're not certain about it and you think there are other horses that would fit the bill, leave her be- but if after your trial you feel more confident about managing it and decide you really do want her, then perhaps you should buy her.

I've got a cribber, he's 16 and has done it since he was a youngster. I'm never going to stop it, it's so engrained now it's just part of him. If he's out 24/7 and fed lots of fibre I hardly need to worry about it, the only time it becomes an issue is when there isn't enough grass/hay available to him and he windsucks instead because it's easier than nibbling. He has colicked once, which was in the above situation- he'd not been eating and was just windsucking. Now I'm very careful and make sure that he's always got access to lots of fibre. The only thing is that his front teeth are a little worn down on one side!

I think it is a very manageable condition, if it's caused or was triggered by stress then you can help by providing more turnout in a nice big field with other horses, if it's related to ulcers/acidity you can also help by upping a constant fibre source (have read alfalfa is meant to be good at reducing acidity?) and feeding antacid supplements. No experience of hereditary cribbing.

Good luck whatever you decide :)
 
Lots of stories and management advice have already been given.

My take on it is that if it isn't causing any health or livery problems and the horse is otherwise everything you want her to be, then what she does in her spare time is her own business :)

Given that you are being offered a lengthy trial period, I would say go for it and see how it works out.
 
I'm another in the 'go for it' camp. I always get really confused with this sort of question as I genuinely do not get why vices such as Cribbing are ever seen as a problem, it's just a habit same as a person biting their nails or tweaking their hair! In my experience horses don't tend to copy vices of other horses so I'd not hesiste to allow a horse with certain stable vices to be stabled next to one of my boys.

I've known quite a few Cribbers, Weavers, Door Kickers, Box Walkers and Windsuckers over the years and have never known any of the above to cause much (if any) issue to the horse or owner in question.....My YO has a serial-Cribber, he's an Arab (with the typical aloof attitude to boot) and yet she has no issues with weight, Colic, Ulcers, Teeth wear or damage to things....she ensures he has a surface to crib on and he leaves the rest alone :-)

I'd definitely say that in your situation, I'd go for it....Your YO has already said it's fine to keep a Cribber on the yard and you've been offered a long trial to ensure you both suit each other....what have you got to lose?
 
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