Get Lazy Horse Off the Leg

[Alex01]

I have been sharing my 10 year old cob for just over three months. He has competed in unaffiliated dressage competitions and have come first in many of them (not sure at what level but not as low as intro). He is slow to get going but once he is moving can be very forward going and works hard. His owner has only recently started riding him again in the last month after a break and since she has been riding him I've noticed that he is much less willing to work for me and I'm not sure why this is or whether it is just coincidence.

I have an instructor and he is very forward in the lessons. However recently, when riding him on my own I have found him very sluggish and almost stubbornly dead to my leg. He breaks all paces to go back to walk and on occasion I have struggled to even get him into a working trot as he just switches off and refuses to do what I say.

When warming up I try loads of transitions, walk to trot, trot to walk, walk halt etc but sometimes I feel even this isn't making a difference with him. His owner gives him a good old smack if he isn't listening and my instructor has told me to give him a good hard hit if he is really taking the p*** but to be honest, this doesn't sit well with me and I am reluctant to do this as I think it is cruel and it doesn't even seem to make a difference anyway. I ride with a schooling whip and will give him a tap with it, however I'm starting to wonder if I do this too often and so my leg aids have lost all effect. I don't feel I can really speak to his owner about this, as she will just say he is fine with her and I worry that she will say that I'm not suitable for him. I do really like him and don't want to look for another horse as he has given me so much confidence since a bad fall and the arrangement I have with the owners is very good and I don't want this to change. I've only been sharing him for three months and so maybe I am putting too much pressure on myself.

In all honesty, I'd like to try ditching the whip and leaving it at the side of the school so that I can try to focus on leg aids alone, but not sure if this will work. Can anyone recommend anything I can do to get him more off my leg? I've heard someone say you should do 100 transitions every schooling session. I'm starting to get frustrated and don't know what to do!

 

[VioletStripe]

Did his owner hack him at all? He sounds similar to how a lot of horses can get if they're a bit bored with doing circles in the school.

It could be a number of things, though. Has his routine changed at all with the owner taking a break? Do you know if he's had his saddle and teeth checked recently?

 

[Alex01]

I do think she hacks him out around once a week on the bridleways, to be completely honest I'm not sure what his routine is but do know he gets ridden 5 or 6 days a week, turned out in the day and kept in at night. In open spaces he can be strong and is always spooky so I'm too scared to hack him out alone. I did hack him out for over an hour in the forest once, and the next day he was like a rocket in the school so maybe it is that he doesn't look forward to work. Unfortunately I have asked if other people could hack out with me on the yard but no one is interested which is a bit soul destroying as I love hacking out.

He works hard in the lessons so I don't think it would be his saddle or his teeth that are an issue, and his owner doesn't seem to think this is an issue either.

 

[j1ffy]

I agree that it's worth checking if his routine has changed or if he's now being 'drilled' too much in the arena - most horses enjoy variety and get tired / sore / fed up if going in circles every day.

Other than that, it's important to be very clear and very disciplined with the aids. While I agree that 'a good old smack' is not the solution, a short sharp aid is important if they ignore your leg to begin with.

A lazy horse will often 'train' you to nag, which it sounds like you are trying to avoid. Think about keeping the leg off, using a gentle aid then immediately doing a very 'loud' aid if you don't get the response. You must be disciplined to do this all the time for a few sessions so the lesson sinks in.

On my lazier horse (who's now on loan to a friend), I am disciplined as soon as I get on otherwise he decides he doesn't need to listen to my leg. Once I'm on and settled, I'll do a normal leg squeeze to ask him to walk on. If he doesn't respond to the gentle squeeze he gets a sharp kick - I don't mind if he shoots forward with his head in the air, as long as he goes forward. He then gets a pat. Occasionally this needs repeating through the schooling session, so if he ever doesn't respond to a gentle leg aid he gets a sharper aid and a pat if he responds (ideally it's a big response to the sharper aid).

 

[Alex01]

I agree that it's worth checking if his routine has changed or if he's now being 'drilled' too much in the arena - most horses enjoy variety and get tired / sore / fed up if going in circles every day.

Other than that, it's important to be very clear and very disciplined with the aids. While I agree that 'a good old smack' is not the solution, a short sharp aid is important if they ignore your leg to begin with.

A lazy horse will often 'train' you to nag, which it sounds like you are trying to avoid. Think about keeping the leg off, using a gentle aid then immediately doing a very 'loud' aid if you don't get the response. You must be disciplined to do this all the time for a few sessions so the lesson sinks in.

On my lazier horse (who's now on loan to a friend), I am disciplined as soon as I get on otherwise he decides he doesn't need to listen to my leg. Once I'm on and settled, I'll do a normal leg squeeze to ask him to walk on. If he doesn't respond to the gentle squeeze he gets a sharp kick - I don't mind if he shoots forward with his head in the air, as long as he goes forward. He then gets a pat. Occasionally this needs repeating through the schooling session, so if he ever doesn't respond to a gentle leg aid he gets a sharper aid and a pat if he responds (ideally it's a big response to the sharper aid).

Thank you for the advice. I have been looking at some youtube videos which have also said to give a soft aid, and then a sharp kick if they don't respond, praising any forward motion even if they bolt off. I agree that I also need to remind myself to keep my leg off, otherwise I think he just thinks it's part of the saddle and so ignores my leg.

 

[paddi22]

don't feel bad about applying as much pressure as you need to get a result, it's much fairer to them in the long run then just constant nagging that annoys both of you without any positive effect.

I follow that method of three requests - very gentle aid, if no response much harder one, and then if no response the third request is my nuclear option. I go hard with a shallop and even if they get a fright and break into canter I give them praise. because what you want is the forward response.

at the moment it sounds like he doesn't respect that you actually mean what you are asking for. I find you just have to go nuclear a couple of times and then they start to pay more attention and respond.

* I'd also check horse was physically fit enough and not tired, that it wasn't arena sour and also that the arena surface wasn't affecting it by being too deep etc.

 

[Frumpoon]

Every horse I have known that people believe to be 'lazy' has had a physical issue

My personal view is that horses are never lazy

 

[paddi22]

Every horse I have known that people believe to be 'lazy' has had a physical issue

My personal view is that horses are never lazy

There do seem to be horses and ponies though that have perfected the art of being able to use the minimum amount of energy, and some do successfully tune out nagging riders.

 

[Alex01]

I've been keeping notes on my schooling sessions with him. I thought he might be arena sour, but looking back I hacked him out on our cross country course 3 weeks ago and gave him a good canter/gallop and two days later when I was riding him in the school he was not forward. After a while he started being so naughty and wouldn't even get into a working trot, let alone a canter. Personally I think it must be a respect issue as his owner says he can be sluggish in our indoor arena but is generally fine when ridden outside. I have found it doesn't make much of a difference with him. He seems to be okay in the first 15 minutes and then just switches off. He was lame for a week in October and I rode him on the cross country course the week he came back into work. If he was in pain, I would have thought that he would behave the same way with his owner as well as with me.

For clarity during schooling I warm up, lots of transitions (maybe not enough), working trot, circles, and alternative between three loop serpentines, leg yield, shallow loops, canter etc so I don't feel it's that I'm doing boring work with him. I wonder if I should ask my instructor to do a jumping lesson or pole work with him next time to see if that makes any difference.

 

[Micky]

So you can’t hack him, could you maybe mix up the school rides...put some poles down and change exercises on him? Do some no stirrups work have a look online for new ways to school?

 

[paddi22]

I have one who tunes out in the arena a bit, so I tend to hack him in walk and trot to warm him up and then only go into the arena to do 20 mins of really focussed schooling.

for the one's who are sluggish it's good to do a lot of upwards transitions, but ones like halt to trot, and walk to canter. If the arena is big enough I'd also get up off their back and give them a blast in fast canter to get them thinking forward.

 

[DressageCob]

It sounds like your reluctance to give him a tap is a possible factor; he may feel he can take the mick with you and doesn't think you mean it when you ask him to go forward. Lots of little taps do nothing at all. One larger tap may be what you need. I also find tapping my boot can be helpful to back up the left aid (it makes a good noise).

Aside from that, I think direct transitions can be helpful. Halt to trot, trot to halt, walk to canter, canter to walk (those ones get my little cob very fizzy indeed!).

Otherwise can you have a play with some poles?

 

[Splash2310]

I do think she hacks him out around once a week on the bridleways, to be completely honest I'm not sure what his routine is but do know he gets ridden 5 or 6 days a week, turned out in the day and kept in at night. In open spaces he can be strong and is always spooky so I'm too scared to hack him out alone. I did hack him out for over an hour in the forest once, and the next day he was like a rocket in the school so maybe it is that he doesn't look forward to work. Unfortunately I have asked if other people could hack out with me on the yard but no one is interested which is a bit soul destroying as I love hacking out.

Could someone (perhaps a friend/partner) come with you on foot/bike whilst you hack?

What is the difference between riding him in lessons and riding him by yourself? Are you doing different exercises, or are you perhaps having a canter earlier on?

 

[scats]

Assuming there is nothing physical going on, you need to retrain yourself when you are riding him.
You need to think ‘leg off’ whenever you are on him. He must stay in the pace you have put him in until told otherwise. So if you have put him into trot, you must be able to let your leg gently hang down. If he slows down, a firm short leg aid and then leg off again straight away. If he ignores that, a firm tap behind the leg with a whip. Then leg off again until he slows. You must be consistent and make sure your don’t slip back into giving a nudge with the leg every few strides (it’s so easily done!). You must do this for all paces and every time you ride. Depending on the horse, and how effective your aids are, you will notice a difference in a few sessions but you must remember to take your leg off. The horse must feel a reward for doing the right thing (ie you leave him alone- which is far nicer for him than constant nagging)

When it comes to getting him to listen during transitions, you need to surprise him a bit. Apply a leg aid say for trot and if you get no response, tap and even voice at this time. Make him jump forwards, he might get a bit of a shock at first if he’s not used to it. He must learn to be waiting and ready for an aid and to move off that aid straight away.
The problem with a lot of lazy types is that they get used to feeling constant or near constant leg aids/nudges and it becomes a bit like white noise to them so they don’t really react to it. You need to change that so that he recognises a clear difference between an aid and your leg just being there.

Make the school exciting. Make it somewhere that he has to listen because he doesn’t know what’s coming next.

 

[Widgeon]

If the arena is big enough I'd also get up off their back and give them a blast in fast canter to get them thinking forward.

I know this is the best way to get my cob going - he just isn't overly interested in arena work unless there are JUMPS. Obviously this isn't a solution for every day so I've found that a few minutes warming up on each rein, then straight into canter work, seems to loosen him up and get him thinking forwards. Then we work on trot and walk later on. Worth a try.

 

[Alex01]

Could someone (perhaps a friend/partner) come with you on foot/bike whilst you hack?

What is the difference between riding him in lessons and riding him by yourself? Are you doing different exercises, or are you perhaps having a canter earlier on?

There shouldn't be a difference between riding him in a lesson and by myself, which means that I'm obviously doing something wrong. I don't try to canter him early and I try to follow the same routine as what I do in lessons.

My boyfriend is scared of horses! He did come out with us once but didn't enjoy it, my family are a bit better and hopefully as no where is open they won't have an excuse not to come up! Our yard is getting very funny about unnecessary people coming up so maybe I'll wait until the lockdown is over.

 

[Alex01]

I know this is the best way to get my cob going - he just isn't overly interested in arena work unless there are JUMPS. Obviously this isn't a solution for every day so I've found that a few minutes warming up on each rein, then straight into canter work, seems to loosen him up and get him thinking forwards. Then we work on trot and walk later on. Worth a try.

I can't imagine he is ever asked to go into canter early on in a schooling session so this is going to scare the crap out of him! I'm riding him tonight, can't wait to try it! I'm also going to ask my instructor to do some pole/jumping work with me as I have only been doing dressage since I've been sharing him as I haven't jumped for over a year.

 

[Alex01]

I

Assuming there is nothing physical going on, you need to retrain yourself when you are riding him.
You need to think ‘leg off’ whenever you are on him. He must stay in the pace you have put him in until told otherwise. So if you have put him into trot, you must be able to let your leg gently hang down. If he slows down, a firm short leg aid and then leg off again straight away. If he ignores that, a firm tap behind the leg with a whip. Then leg off again until he slows. You must be consistent and make sure your don’t slip back into giving a nudge with the leg every few strides (it’s so easily done!). You must do this for all paces and every time you ride. Depending on the horse, and how effective your aids are, you will notice a difference in a few sessions but you must remember to take your leg off. The horse must feel a reward for doing the right thing (ie you leave him alone- which is far nicer for him than constant nagging)

When it comes to getting him to listen during transitions, you need to surprise him a bit. Apply a leg aid say for trot and if you get no response, tap and even voice at this time. Make him jump forwards, he might get a bit of a shock at first if he’s not used to it. He must learn to be waiting and ready for an aid and to move off that aid straight away.
The problem with a lot of lazy types is that they get used to feeling constant or near constant leg aids/nudges and it becomes a bit like white noise to them so they don’t really react to it. You need to change that so that he recognises a clear difference between an aid and your leg just being there.

Make the school exciting. Make it somewhere that he has to listen because he doesn’t know what’s coming next.

I think leg off is the most recurring piece of advice I've seen. I've been told by his owner and my instructor to be pushing him on as soon as he goes into trot to get him forward so naturally I reckon I nag with my leg as soon as I try to get him to trot on now which is probably having the opposite effect. Thank you so much!

 

[tristar]

I have been sharing my 10 year old cob for just over three months. He has competed in unaffiliated dressage competitions and have come first in many of them (not sure at what level but not as low as intro). He is slow to get going but once he is moving can be very forward going and works hard. His owner has only recently started riding him again in the last month after a break and since she has been riding him I've noticed that he is much less willing to work for me and I'm not sure why this is or whether it is just coincidence.

I have an instructor and he is very forward in the lessons. However recently, when riding him on my own I have found him very sluggish and almost stubbornly dead to my leg. He breaks all paces to go back to walk and on occasion I have struggled to even get him into a working trot as he just switches off and refuses to do what I say.

When warming up I try loads of transitions, walk to trot, trot to walk, walk halt etc but sometimes I feel even this isn't making a difference with him. His owner gives him a good old smack if he isn't listening and my instructor has told me to give him a good hard hit if he is really taking the p*** but to be honest, this doesn't sit well with me and I am reluctant to do this as I think it is cruel and it doesn't even seem to make a difference anyway. I ride with a schooling whip and will give him a tap with it, however I'm starting to wonder if I do this too often and so my leg aids have lost all effect. I don't feel I can really speak to his owner about this, as she will just say he is fine with her and I worry that she will say that I'm not suitable for him. I do really like him and don't want to look for another horse as he has given me so much confidence since a bad fall and the arrangement I have with the owners is very good and I don't want this to change. I've only been sharing him for three months and so maybe I am putting too much pressure on myself.

In all honesty, I'd like to try ditching the whip and leaving it at the side of the school so that I can try to focus on leg aids alone, but not sure if this will work. Can anyone recommend anything I can do to get him more off my leg? I've heard someone say you should do 100 transitions every schooling session. I'm starting to get frustrated and don't know what to do!

i agree with you, violence is never the answer, the intelligent rider finds ways of showing the horse through its own pathways of understanding what they want.

i have a horse from a family of lazy horses, on both sides, i know this is right because i have had four generations of them, i tend to , inthe school, when warming up, ride very quietly allowing the rhythm, which can be slow to dictate the pace, i do not do lots of transitions until the horse is fairly warmed up, i tend to go forwards a long way then starting just loosening and relaxing and suppling, a burst of canter after 15 mins helps, then increase transitions, and i end the session with the horse really on the leg, not off it but, with my leg in place so the slightest touch combined with the seat gives real responses in an attentive and willing way


a couple of raised poles down the center line can encourage forwardness

i think your instincts are right they are telling you to look for ways of improving your communication and training skills

sounds like you are cleverer than those instructing you,

 

[Regandal]

What’s the surface in the school? Is it deep?

 

[Mule]

I'd definitely try to figure out why he is less willing. The best way to sensitise a horse to the leg is to use gradually increasing pressure. It's fairer and easier for the horse to understand than a sudden, sharp kick/hit. That can make a horse resentful.

So, 1 give a light leg squeeze to ask the horse to go. If it doesn't then 2 bump him with your legs, if he ignores 3 give a stronger leg aid. If he still ignores it, 4 use the whip. Each time he gets ploddy go through the same routine. He will learn to go off the lighter leg aids pretty quickly.

A few walk to canter transitions and jumping also keeps them active

 

[Alex01]

I'd definitely try to figure out why he is less willing. The best way to sensitise a horse to the leg is to use gradually increasing pressure. It's fairer and easier for the horse to understand than a sudden, sharp kick/hit. That can make a horse resentful.

So, 1 give a light leg squeeze to ask the horse to go. If it doesn't then 2 bump him with your legs, if he ignores 3 give a stronger leg aid. If he still ignores it, 4 use the whip. Each time he gets ploddy go through the same routine. He will learn to go off the lighter leg aids pretty quickly.

A few walk to canter transitions and jumping also keeps them active

I tried this on Tuesday. Tried giving him light squeezes and could tell that he was listening and trying to figure out what I wanted. kept going with it and gave him a harder bump/kick if he wasn't responding. He would go off into trot, albeit quite slowly. If he broke into walk, I'd ask again. He will do it, but I think it is going to take a few sessions. only had to use my whip a couple of times. Then gave him a good old blast in canter. Think he got the message.

 

[Mule]

I tried this on Tuesday. Tried giving him light squeezes and could tell that he was listening and trying to figure out what I wanted. kept going with it and gave him a harder bump/kick if he wasn't responding. He would go off into trot, albeit quite slowly. If he broke into walk, I'd ask again. He will do it, but I think it is going to take a few sessions. only had to use my whip a couple of times. Then gave him a good old blast in canter. Think he got the message.

It will definitely take a few sessions or more but it sounds like he's getting the hang of it already. Be mindful that you aren't unwittingly pushing him forward with your seat/ legs until you mean to get him moving. It's so easy with a horse like that to nag them without being aware of it.