getting a cheeky baby to start working properly

weesophz

weesophz

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 September 2011
Messages
2,536
Location
West o' Scotland.
www.facebook.com
been hacking riley out and just doing some walk and trot work in the school with him, now that hes getting fitter and more confident hes started pushing the boundaries.

wouldnt co-operate at all yesterday. wouldnt move forward no matter how much i nudged and kicked. when he did it wasnt forward it was side steps then stopping again. he naps towards other horses aswell.

he doesnt have very good steering either. so really what can i do to make him work properly. he is in a happy mouth snaffle just now, we are waiting on a full cheek arriving hoping that will help with steering. would you advise using a stick on him? i dont like using them, rarely used them on fox, dont really want to use them but i will if you guys think it will help.

i appreciate he is just a baby and is only learning, but we need to get him going right so we can have some real fun :) thanks!
 
In absolutely the same position so look forward to hearing replies! I'm hardly going in the school ATM, I've got him hacking out 3x a week (and even there he's started to plant!) and once a week for half an hour in the school doing loads of serpentines, circles & transitions. Hard to find the way through at times isn't it!!
 
I would go back to basics and long rein to get him to go forward on his own, or get someone on the ground to help lead you perhaps? I'd avoid using the stick at this stage unless you really feel hes taking the micky and hes not just getting a bit confused. Sometimes its one step forward and three back so you just have to perhaps go back a couple of steps with your training and reiterate to him what he needs to be doing when asked to go forward. the napping towards horses is a confidence thing so again just go back to being escorted by another horse or leading him away from others. I always think its best to try not to get into a battle with them, it will all click into place don't worry :) just takes time and patience. Good luck :)
 
Gracie21 said:
In absolutely the same position so look forward to hearing replies! I'm hardly going in the school ATM, I've got him hacking out 3x a week (and even there he's started to plant!) and once a week for half an hour in the school doing loads of serpentines, circles & transitions. Hard to find the way through at times isn't it!!
Click to expand...

they definitely like to test us! i think riley had has baby brain in yesterday as hes normally a star on hacks but was acting like a complete idiot haha. hopefully someone will have the answers for us!
 
I'd go back to long reins and establish "forwards" and steering their first. No use doing it on board with weight and other de-motivating factors. Definitely do not use a stick to beat him into forwards now - he clearly doesn't understand what you're asking. Have you got a more experienced person helping you?
 
warmbloodcrazy said:
I would go back to basics and long rein to get him to go forward on his own, or get someone on the ground to help lead you perhaps? I'd avoid using the stick at this stage unless you really feel hes taking the micky and hes not just getting a bit confused. Sometimes its one step forward and three back so you just have to perhaps go back a couple of steps with your training and reiterate to him what he needs to be doing when asked to go forward. the napping towards horses is a confidence thing so again just go back to being escorted by another horse or leading him away from others. I always think its best to try not to get into a battle with them, it will all click into place don't worry :) just takes time and patience. Good luck :)
Click to expand...

thank you! will go back to the long reining tomorrow then and see how we go. exactly i dont want to get in a fight with him, i want to make it all a positive experience for him since its all new!

JFTD said:
I'd go back to long reins and establish "forwards" and steering their first. No use doing it on board with weight and other de-motivating factors. Definitely do not use a stick to beat him into forwards now - he clearly doesn't understand what you're asking. Have you got a more experienced person helping you?
Click to expand...

yeah rileys owner helps me we are working through it together. he was spooky aswell yesterday i think it was just a bad day but regardless we do need to get the steering down, will try the long reining tomorrow :)
 
JFTD said:
I'd go back to long reins and establish "forwards" and steering their first. No use doing it on board with weight and other de-motivating factors. Definitely do not use a stick to beat him into forwards now - he clearly doesn't understand what you're asking. Have you got a more experienced person helping you?
Click to expand...

Are you me today? That's two threads in a row I have backed out of because you have typed exactly what I would. Sheesh!
 
JFTD said:
I'd go back to long reins and establish "forwards" and steering their first. No use doing it on board with weight and other de-motivating factors. Definitely do not use a stick to beat him into forwards now - he clearly doesn't understand what you're asking. Have you got a more experienced person helping you?
Click to expand...

Where do you go if the re horse refuses to go forward on the long reins, or in hand for that matter?
 
That depends, Persephone! If it doesn't understand moving forwards in long reins, go back to the head and lead. If it doesn't understand leading, you go back to teaching it to walk in hand. If it won't move in hand, and it has previously led fine (since this isn't a very young or wild horse!), then carrying a whip is an option because it probably isn't an understanding issue! If it moves in hand, but not in long reins, you have to work on firming up the response to your voice, and of course you have the option to put someone at his head to lead him till he gets the hang of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not whip shy - I long rein carrying a schooling whip, but only when the horse understands the question. And I get the impression the OP's horse doesn't...
 
I had one of those! They can be a nightmare the problem normally is because there quite young they don't always know what your asking for. Try a bit of lunging using lots of voice commands. If you don't think this is the case what worked for me was doing lots an lots of transitions make him listen work him on a long rein get him to walk around the school if he's napping make sure you have a bit of a contact with him then when his outside shoulder goes forward push with your outside leg vice versa every single stride until you get a good walk then soften the pressure and give him his head a bit more. Everytime he does something you like even if it's tiny you must reward him so he knows that's right. I wouldn't suggest using a whip right now but if nothing working and he really isn't going forward just hold one in your hand see if it makes a difference and maybe give it a wave or something when he's not responding to your leg I wouldn't hit him with it as you don't want to be giving him bad experiences like that when he's this young he still has a lot to learn he will get there :)
 
JFTD said:
That depends, Persephone! If it doesn't understand moving forwards in long reins, go back to the head and lead. If it doesn't understand leading, you go back to teaching it to walk in hand. If it won't move in hand, and it has previously led fine (since this isn't a very young or wild horse!), then carrying a whip is an option because it probably isn't an understanding issue! If it moves in hand, but not in long reins, you have to work on firming up the response to your voice, and of course you have the option to put someone at his head to lead him till he gets the hang of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not whip shy - I long rein carrying a schooling whip, but only when the horse understands the question. And I get the impression the OP's horse doesn't...
Click to expand...

Sorry, I have hijacked slightly! My young mare totally knows how to long rein, and lead correctly. She has simply decided she doesn't want to leave the yard! It is sheer napping and naughtiness. She plants, and at 17 hands she is not shifting! I have to admit things are getting better in hand. It's still hard work though. I just have to keep winning the argument I think :p

I just wondered what options came after if the discussion is not being won from the ground either?

ETS I see your point about firming up the aids, she retaliates to whips, that's not an option, but I have worked on my voice commands, getting much gruffer, and dropping most of the praise!
 
Persephone said:
Sorry, I have hijacked slightly! My young mare totally knows how to long rein, and lead correctly. She has simply decided she doesn't want to leave the yard! It is sheer napping and naughtiness. She plants, and at 17 hands she is not shifting! I have to admit things are getting better in hand. It's still hard work though. I just have to keep winning the argument I think :p

I just wondered what options came after if the discussion is not being won from the ground either?
Click to expand...

Oh I see, I thought you were actually making a point about my comment being unclear / incomplete :p

I think your mare is a possibly different kettle of fish to the OP's, from what's been said (though I may well be wrong, having seen neither in the flesh!). There are loads of options if you're losing on the ground - from carrying a whip and enforcing your request through to beating her up, or on the other side of a coin, waving a carrot stick at her till she gets bored. The option I'd go for with mine is bribery - I know it works for mine in that sort of circumstance, and I know it's a quick and un-messy way of getting round the issue. That said, it wouldn't work for most horses, and has potential undesirable consequences too. For most horses, I'd say firm and consistent reinforcement of your request until you get a response (assuming it understands the question, which your mare does) and always making sure you win is a reasonably sensible approach. Someone else, of course, may have a magic bullet for you though, which I'd certainly be interested to hear! Good luck :)
 
I would also say that with the best will in the world, long reining isn't for every horse. Some simply don't understand why you are suddenly walking behind them and don't understand the lines on their sides. For whatever reason the long reining just doesn't give them feedback and stimulation that they find easy to understand. There have been quite a few youngsters that I have backed with little or no long reining before hand because the long reining stressed them out or just caused them to shut down and they very quiet and easy to back and understood thing far better when you were physically touching them and the voice commands are coming from a place that's far closer to the place it comes from when they are being led.
 
JFTD said:
Oh I see, I thought you were actually making a point about my comment being unclear / incomplete :p

I think your mare is a possibly different kettle of fish to the OP's, from what's been said (though I may well be wrong, having seen neither in the flesh!). There are loads of options if you're losing on the ground - from carrying a whip and enforcing your request through to beating her up, or on the other side of a coin, waving a carrot stick at her till she gets bored. The option I'd go for with mine is bribery - I know it works for mine in that sort of circumstance, and I know it's a quick and un-messy way of getting round the issue. That said, it wouldn't work for most horses, and has potential undesirable consequences too. For most horses, I'd say firm and consistent reinforcement of your request until you get a response (assuming it understands the question, which your mare does) and always making sure you win is a reasonably sensible approach. Someone else, of course, may have a magic bullet for you though, which I'd certainly be interested to hear! Good luck :)
Click to expand...

I'd love a magic bullet, sometimes any kind of bullet ;) I have never met a horse like this one, unfortunately a few professionals have said the same! But still, luckily I am patient, very patient and stubborn. I have been known to just stand there, not letting her eat, not resting her legs, no praise or communication until she is semi bored and wants to move forward, if she moves she goes back on the same spot again. I'm not mentally torturing her, just centering her mind and letting her know who has control of her legs. I hope that's what I am doing anyway!

Couldn't think of anything else tbh! Luckily it seems to be working at present. I'm sure she'll throw a spanner in the works soon though!
 
DabDab said:
I would also say that with the best will in the world, long reining isn't for every horse. Some simply don't understand why you are suddenly walking behind them and don't understand the lines on their sides. For whatever reason the long reining just doesn't give them feedback and stimulation that they find easy to understand. There have been quite a few youngsters that I have backed with little or no long reining before hand because the long reining stressed them out or just caused them to shut down and they very quiet and easy to back and understood thing far better when you were physically touching them and the voice commands are coming from a place that's far closer to the place it comes from when they are being led.
Click to expand...

This is true. There's always lunging as an option, though I personally try to avoid lunging to any extent with youngsters. The thing is, if you're having an issue like the OP's I think it's generally easier to fix on the ground, either on long reins or lunge. If you can back without either and get away with it (I have!), that's great, but if you run into trouble, it's probably worth re-visiting the basics.


P, I think that's a pretty reasonable approach! I've been known to be in a battle of wills, praying for a bullet too :p :)
 
JFTD said:
This is true. There's always lunging as an option, though I personally try to avoid lunging to any extent with youngsters. The thing is, if you're having an issue like the OP's I think it's generally easier to fix on the ground, either on long reins or lunge. If you can back without either and get away with it (I have!), that's great, but if you run into trouble, it's probably worth re-visiting the basics.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, I was just generally adding on the subject of long reining. I think for the op revisiting long reining would probably be extremely beneficial, particularly if she wasn't the one that originally did the ground work with the young man, as much to help identify any holes in his understanding as anything else. Yeh, there is lunging - or just free schooling for a while and then hopping on bareback :wink3:
 
DabDab said:
Yeh, there is lunging - or just free schooling for a while and then hopping on bareback :wink3:
Click to expand...

I just hopped on Fergs bareback - no long reining, lunging or anything (though he'd been lunged at least once with DryRot before I had him). He's turned out ok, but I could probably have made life easier by doing some groundwork to establish forwards first! I've taken more care with Dae, but it may turn out no better (or possibly very much worse!).
 
thanks for the replies everyone :) like i said i will try the long reining tomorrow. he can be a little turd long reining, before he was backed he didnt seem to take very kindly to it, i remember watching his buck and drag our jockey friend around the school, riley has a little stubborn streak i think haha.

if everything you all suggested doesnt work, what are my next options?
 
Just treat the first session as a getting to know you session, rather than trying to achieve anything necessarily. So just assess him a bit - see what he responds to. You can do the same thing just working with him on the ground and loose in the school. You may well find that way forward presents itself. Good luck with him :)
 
How are his ground manners generally? Does he stop when you stop, walk when you walk, yield forehand and haunches when you ask?

I would long rein as well. Also, I've never seen you ride so this could be total ******, but in my experience, babies are very sensitive to the rider's seat, weight, and leg. I have seen horses get stuck with a slightly unbalanced or tentative rider, or one who's working on their own timing, but go all right for a rider sitting in balance with good timing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top