Getting a cob to work correctly?

[hazel25]

Hi everyone. I've recently started loaning a lovely cob, who for reference is 10, used to be a driving pony but been mainly ridden for several years now. He's incredibly safe which is great as that was a priority for me. I've been trying to bring his schooling on a bit more a few times a week, an area which he is more green in. He sticks his head up, tends to rush and get on the forehand. Also can occasionally nap which doesn't help, though he is responsive to the leg. He's the type who prefers a little more rein contact so it's difficult to get him to stretch out a lot of the time. I'm in the process of finding an instructor (a lot of them near me don't seem to have a lot of availability!) to help me with improving his schooling and eyes on the ground, but for now has anybody got any ideas for gradually engaging his hindquarters, getting him off the forehand and getting his head out of the sky? Thanks!

 

[Amy May In A Manger]

Get him out hacking. It's the best way to get them engaged.

 

[Celtic Fringe]

I'd suggest some classical in-hand training. This really helped my cob who would much prefer to be on the forehand. If possible you should book an instructor who is very competent to take time to gradually teach the correct techniques - done properly it is quite a workout for horse and handler! Hacking especially hill work should also help.

 

[TheMule]

Don’t focus on the head, and certainly don’t focus on getting him to stretch- he cannot do that in balance until he can carry his weight properly. The best way of engaging him and strengthening his balance is lots of slow lateral work in walk- he should comfortably work in shoulder in, do steep, slow leg yields (I prefer to do them against the fence to keep the steps lateral enough) and 1/2 walk pirouettes. I would also do a session of walk poles once a week.

 

[Red-1]

When I got Rigs, he'd never been in an arena.

He was in a bubble bit, martingale and flash. He would pull like a train out hacking, had no idea of yielding to the bit and was disinterested in moving at all in an arena.

Schooling made no sense to him at all. He'd simply like me to make my mind up where I'd like him to stand and then let him stand there. He was slow off the leg, stiff as an ironing board, hard in the mouth. He was miserable in an arena! To trot you had to kick, and keep kicking, or you'd stop again. There was no canter in the arena!

It was quite dispiriting, TBH!

Out hacking, he would have a trot and canter.

He did have numerous physical issues, so I also had to be sensitive to that, whilst realising he needed to do some work as rehab.

The vet said his feet were OK to ride in the arena, but initially most hacking had to be done in-hand. he was recovering from Lami. If I did more than about half an hour under saddle at walk on the road, a couple of times a week, he'd go lame. But he needed to work for the sake of his EMS!

In the end, I used positive reinforcement to train him. He wasn't allowed normal treats with his EMS, so he had celery. I doubted the value of celery, but, TBH, he was on so little food at the time, he relished it. The EMS meant that, on vets orders, we savagely dieted him until he was ribby. I got some stick about it, but it has worked and he now tests clear for EMS, a really good score now.

We only worked in walk for months. We did halt to walk, and if he responded to the slight aid, he was told "Good Boy" and was stopped and treated. We only concentrated on getting some go initially. He caught on pretty quickly to simply go.

Next he was stood still and I would ask with the rein for some relaxation in his jaw. Again, any hint of relaxation and he was told "Good Boy" and treated. Then, once both could be performed in turn, we combined the two and asked for a step or two with active walk and relaxed jaw.

Massive Good Boy for that one!

because each session only lasted as long as a handful of celery, and was not too difficult, he soon bought into the idea.

It was good for me as mum was very ill and the concentration to motivate the bullish cob was immense, and it took me out of myself.

Eventually, he would walk a full circuit, soft and engaged. Once he fully understood what was expected in walk, halt and rein back, we moved onto trot. That took a while longer, but not as long as getting his initial buy-in to the whole art of schooling.



Canter was difficult. Initially, just a strike off and 3 strides was Ya Whooo to me, very gratifying, before he fell back to trot! Whatever it looked like, it was a try and he was sopped and treated. Soon, he would do a circuit in canter, not pretty but actively cantering.

He actually got pretty good, and looked very pretty, and we entered an intro dressage. He surprised us all, with the competition giving him a little extra lift, and he won with over 73% LOL.



He didn't really see the point, so that was his one and only test. We moved on the riding club pole sessions and jumping. He did it, but again didn't really love it, so he did one mini clear round at a show, and hasn't really done it since (except for a few times when I have jumped the other horse in front of his stable and he has demanded a go afterwards!).



After his feet were good to hack, this is what me mainly did as he enjoys that a lot more and it makes sense to him.


Now? Well, his schooling is not as good as it was! He is such a good egg, anyone can ride him out, and they do! He has had kids on him, taught my boyfriend and been the conveyance to the pub for many LOL.

I suspect that if I took him back on the school, we'd need a few weeks to brush up on his skills. Either way, I have upped the bitting on his hacking as he is still keen and with so many riders, it's simply easier to give them more brakes. Rigs is 20 now and I don't think he would relish another long winter of schooling.

Now his EMS is in remission, Rigs has access to a field 12 hours a day (muzzled) and is a more healthy rounded weight. No ribs needed now!

I would also say that, although heavy horses can be trained to schooling, I do believe it is hard on their hocks so would do so lightly.

 

[Highmileagereindeer]

As above! Take it slow, and use positive reinforcement to explain what you want him to do. Check his feet thoroughly for thrush, and balance, as either could be throwing his weight onto the forehand. Maybe keep any schooling sessions to around 30 minutes maximum, end on a good note, then go for a short hack to blow the cobwebs away. Cobs have quite an independent character, they will co-operate with you, but they won't take orders!

 

[SEL]

For one of my cobs I was using Ritters pre canter exercises. Not actually much to do with canter so much as exercises to take the weight behind - riding squares, circles and one recently which was a mix of 10m circles, shoulder in & leg yield. I also hack over varied countryside.

it is tiring when they first start doing these exercises and I was guilty to start with of not breaking it up with some relaxed trot work. Now I try to come up with my exercise of the week (which would probably only be 2 arena sessions) and mix in repetitions with some trot / canter work to get them thinking forward and keep the back loose.

My very downhill ex driving cob is a lot less likely to tow me along on the forehand now but its taken a long time with her. The other one was younger and properly backed so much easier.

 

[hazel25]

Thanks everyone for your replies, they've been very helpful. I do hack him 3-4 times a week so will definitely try to vary the routes a bit more as well

 

[SEL]

Thanks everyone for your replies, they've been very helpful. I do hack him 3-4 times a week so will definitely try to vary the routes a bit more as well

What I've found with the hacking - traffic permitting - is little half halts, lengthen the walk, collect the walk etc all works to help them remember not to tow you along.

It's very easy with the cobs who struggle to realise they can engage their back ends to decide its all too hard and just hack. For some that's just fine but I know lots who would benefit from more school time.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Ditto the responses re. hacking basically.

My little 13.2 (profile pic) has probably been in a School for a mere handful of times in her life. I've had her since she was just-backed and riding-on at 4yo. She is 12 now. I did have a few sessions in a school with her, but she started to bronc when asked for a correct canter lead. She just struggles with trying to do stuff her body just isn't meant to do. And sorry OP, but I'm gonna say this out straight, that your cob might not ever be the well-schooled horse you are yearning for; these cobs are just always gonna struggle with getting their physique around school work, especially if they've been driven. Hope my honesty doesn't offend!

My feeling is - from what you say (and I'm trying to say this as gently as possible) is that maybe your cob OP is "saying" look sorry but this isn't suiting my body! You say he is "green"; but from your description he is also very stiff, and struggles in an outline. You say he is also doing what mine did at one stage when I had her in the school and that is to run under the bit, as in poking out his nose and rushing forward, then going on the forehand. Also the napping is a huge warning-signal that he might not be comfortable, or in pain somewhere, and something isn't right. I would ask the vet to just give him a trot-up; and following that, ask a physio to take a look. When I did this with mine (after the broncing episode - which is just not typical for her as she's a sweetie) I got the vet to trot her up, and we found she was sore around her stifles. The behaviour reflected the fact that she was very likely not comfortable. Also I'd get a saddle check & teeth too. Just to make sure.

The best way I can suggest to get a cob (or any horse essentially) off the leg is to hack-out with a horse that has a bigger stride and goes faster then they do. My 13.2 regularly hacks out with a 15.2 TB OTT, and she can easily keep up. She has a lovely swinging walk and is nicely forward going; like a rocking horse to ride especially in canter, and only needs a minimal contact. Yet like I say she hasn't been regularly "schooled" as such!

And of course the other "old fashioned" recommendation for getting a horse to go forward was always a day out hunting when I was a pony club kid! Never fails.

 

[hazel25]

Ditto the responses re. hacking basically.

My little 13.2 (profile pic) has probably been in a School for a mere handful of times in her life. I've had her since she was just-backed and riding-on at 4yo. She is 12 now. I did have a few sessions in a school with her, but she started to bronc when asked for a correct canter lead. She just struggles with trying to do stuff her body just isn't meant to do. And sorry OP, but I'm gonna say this out straight, that your cob might not ever be the well-schooled horse you are yearning for; these cobs are just always gonna struggle with getting their physique around school work, especially if they've been driven. Hope my honesty doesn't offend!

My feeling is - from what you say (and I'm trying to say this as gently as possible) is that maybe your cob OP is "saying" look sorry but this isn't suiting my body! You say he is "green"; but from your description he is also very stiff, and struggles in an outline. You say he is also doing what mine did at one stage when I had her in the school and that is to run under the bit, as in poking out his nose and rushing forward, then going on the forehand. Also the napping is a huge warning-signal that he might not be comfortable, or in pain somewhere, and something isn't right. I would ask the vet to just give him a trot-up; and following that, ask a physio to take a look. When I did this with mine (after the broncing episode - which is just not typical for her as she's a sweetie) I got the vet to trot her up, and we found she was sore around her stifles. The behaviour reflected the fact that she was very likely not comfortable. Also I'd get a saddle check & teeth too. Just to make sure.

The best way I can suggest to get a cob (or any horse essentially) off the leg is to hack-out with a horse that has a bigger stride and goes faster then they do. My 13.2 regularly hacks out with a 15.2 TB OTT, and she can easily keep up. She has a lovely swinging walk and is nicely forward going; like a rocking horse to ride especially in canter, and only needs a minimal contact. Yet like I say she hasn't been regularly "schooled" as such!

And of course the other "old fashioned" recommendation for getting a horse to go forward was always a day out hunting when I was a pony club kid! Never fails.

Thank you - I appreciate the honesty and absolutely no offense taken at all! Vet is coming to the yard next week so I'll ask them to take a look at him as well

 

[marmalade76]

These comments are so heartening. It's horses for courses, some find it easy, are made for it and enjoy it, some are not and do not. Find your horse's strengths, what he enjoys and stick to that. I had a cob on loan once, the only cob I've ever had, he had started off driven, then been in a riding school. He hated being ridden in the school but didn't mind groundwork at all (going against the cob stereotype, he was a dream to handle and had super ground manners). What he loved was group rides, fun rides, hunting - a different animal who became a keen, competitive show off with absolutely no signs of trying to get rid of you which is what he'd try to do in a school.

 

[Cloball]

My pony was very green in the school and would just rush and run away from the leg she was also stuff as a board. She does however seem to quite enjoy schooling and learning new things so we've done lots of exercises mentioned above. Mostly slow work in walk leg yield, shoulder in, walk pirouettes, turn on the forehand, rein back (slowly and carefully). The aim being to move the quarters and shoulders about, getting mobility and lateral flexion through the body. I don't bother with where her head is although I'm starting to introduce a bit more with the contact now. Use your seat to move through the gears in each pace to slow the rushing. It's been a lot of fun as she is now quite switched on to the lateral stuff and she really seems to enjoy being praised (my schooling involves lots of 'good girl!' and mane scratches).

I might go against the grain here (I hack and do a lot of hill work as I live on the side of Eryri) my pony had done lots of hacking and hills before I got her but being a fell (cobs are quite similar) she just powers up with her shoulders and zooms about like that quite happily but still couldn't cross her back legs to move over. A little bit of schooling twice a week has done her the world of good. I can leg yield and shoulder in up the road if I wish and actually have more of a day in how fast we go now . We don't drill going round in circles or aim for perfection but more aim for brain engagement and improving both of our bodies