Getting a footpath changed to a bridleway

[angrybird1]

Has anyone managed to get a footpath changed to a bridleway?
Is it possible.?
There are a few footpaths near me but few bridleways and it would be great to be able to get off the roads.

 

[pennyturner]

Interested in this one There's a part of the Test Way runs through a local woodland estate. Most of the rest of the route is a long distance bridleway, but the owners are the kind who have been known to have their keeper follow walkers slowly down the path with their quad in an intimidating manner and make parents pick up and carry the bike of a 5 year old child because it is 'only a footpath', so naturally they have put a style at both ends.

The alternative road is ridiculously dangerous, but they don't give a damn.

 

[meleeka]

Speak to your local BHS Rep. they'll have all the info you need. When I asked I was told it takes years.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Yes, it is possible. I would speak to your local Access person. The first step is to make a DMMO (Definitive Map Modification Order). Having the support of local riders & the landowner that the footpaths run over is also rather useful.

 

[ester]

I think usually you have to prove that historically it was used for horses for - of the top of my head when I last checked 15 years??

The BHS access officer for your area would probably be the best person to speak to. We did consider making an application for one but as we currently had permission of the land owner and it wasn't a critical one we decided it was better not to upset the applecart on that one.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I think usually you have to prove that historically it was used for horses for - of the top of my head when I last checked 15 years??

The BHS access officer for your area would probably be the best person to speak to. We did consider making an application for one but as we currently had permission of the land owner and it wasn't a critical one we decided it was better not to upset the applecart on that one.

Historic use is only when trying to reclaim a lost path.

 

[ester]

Historic use is only when trying to reclaim a lost path.

ah, I thought it was for FP as well We had one of those too which is why it came up.

 

[Dave's Mam]

My brain is too tired to remember the full process of a DMMO just now & my books are upstairs. I will get them down tomorrow & get all the relevant info, OP. Out of interest, whereabouts are you?

 

[gingerfan]

Yes in Herts we have a very proactive BHS access group led by our County Bridleway and Access Officer and have already managed to get several footpaths upgraded, and a number of permissive bridleways. We also have Phil Wadey who is working on reclaiming bridleways and byways which were either left off the Definitive Map or wrongly added as footpaths. He is systematically working through the county using old records,, tithe and IR maps, etc to identify these routes and accrue sufficient evidence to put in an application for a Modification Order to add them to the DM. To date he's put in 200+ applications.a We only have until 2026 to apply for these istoric paths before they are lost forever, so time is of the essence.

 

[PeterNatt]

As per above what Gingerfan has said I am one of the BHS access officers for Hertfordshire working with Dr Phil Wadey and it is Historic Research and also user evidence that is used in making an application for a modification of an existing public right of way. There is a book on the subject called 'Rights of Way Restoring the Record' by Sarah Bucks and Phil Wadey ISBN 978-0-95740360-4 available from the British Horse Society Bookshop which is an essential read on the subject.

 

[Dave's Mam]

If I read correctly, the OP is enquiring about changing a current footpath to a bridleway. Historic evidence isn't absolutely necessary here, especially if the path has been used only as a footpath, but it's not the end of the matter.

 

[angrybird1]

Yes it's a footpath now. Just would like to know if it's possible to get it changed to a bridleway.
I'm in the Midlands.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I'm Nottingham / Loughborough based, so I am able to help.

 

[angrybird1]

Thanks. It's just a idea at the moment. Wanted to know if it's possible to do or not.

 

[Cecile]

As per above what Gingerfan has said I am one of the BHS access officers for Hertfordshire working with Dr Phil Wadey and it is Historic Research and also user evidence that is used in making an application for a modification of an existing public right of way. There is a book on the subject called 'Rights of Way Restoring the Record' by Sarah Bucks and Phil Wadey ISBN 978-0-95740360-4 available from the British Horse Society Bookshop which is an essential read on the subject.

I've been reading about the Peppards case for years the Secretary of State has finally reached a decision after 50 years, Sarah Bucks is mentioned in it
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...chment_data/file/640292/fps_g3300_7_97_od.pdf

It was also reported yesterday in the Times, Telegraph, Radio 4 and 5, BBC and loads of other places, it was hot news and if I am not wrong costs have been asked for, so if costs are applied it could cost Somerset Bridleway members and the Rambler members plenty

It would seem there wasn't even a footpath let alone a bridleway across the Peppards land and it will be deleted from just about everywhere on order of the Sec of State and Somerset Council are busy rectifying their 50 year old presumed error

I should imagine this recent case will end up a land mark case

 

[angrybird1]

This footpath is marked by footpath markers. I'm guessing this makes it a official footpath.

 

[ester]

Out of interest what justification would get a path upgraded if the landowner doesn't want to if there hasn't been historic use at any point? (or provable historic use anyway)

What a case Cecile, will definitely be interesting if costs are awarded.

 

[Orangehorse]

Yes, it is.

There is the Historic Use method if it was wrongly put on the Definitive Map as a footpath and should be a bridlepath, or if it has been used as a bridlepath WITHOUT PERMISSION for 20 years and there is sufficient evidence to be upgraded.

There is another method which requires the co-operation of the landowner, which is called Express Dedication, much used by the Trails Trust in Somerset where a willing landowner dedicated the footpath to be a bridlepath and they have created about 80 new bridlepaths using this method. There is a handbook published by the Trails Trust on how to do this.

In these cases you have to get the local County Council on side too, as they will be responsible for upkeep.

The Trails Trust were able to do this amount of work as they had access to money from mining and quarrying activities in the area, so they were able to engineer the new bridlepaths to be able to take the extra use and wouldn't be a drain on the rescources of the County Council. They were multi-use paths for everyone including cyclists.

 

[amandaco2]

very interesting thread!

 

[Cecile]

I've been reading about the Peppards case for years the Secretary of State has finally reached a decision after 50 years, Sarah Bucks is mentioned in it
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...chment_data/file/640292/fps_g3300_7_97_od.pdf

It was also reported yesterday in the Times, Telegraph, Radio 4 and 5, BBC and loads of other places, it was hot news and if I am not wrong costs have been asked for, so if costs are applied it could cost Somerset Bridleway members and the Rambler members plenty

It would seem there wasn't even a footpath let alone a bridleway across the Peppards land and it will be deleted from just about everywhere on order of the Sec of State and Somerset Council are busy rectifying their 50 year old presumed error

I should imagine this recent case will end up a land mark case

It would seem that the Peppards case may not be over as the Ramblers may appeal, not sure what Somerset bridleways group will do maybe wait and have a meeting with the Ramblers - bet the Sec of State is overdosing on rescue remedy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...otpath-ends-victory-brother-sister-died-2011/

Then the telegraph run another story which is fascinating as this effects anyone and everyone who owns a garden or land, did you know that when you buy a home/land/garden you pay a solicitor to do searches and the only legally binding thing he/she has to do is check on the definitive map to see if you have a right of way across you newly owned property, he/she is not liable if someone claims your garden/land as a right of way due to a map dating back centuries, the more I read the more I worry about moving....... it's a minefield but at least I am being educated about it all

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...undreds-thousands-walkers-rush-record-rights/

 

[popsdosh]

It would seem that the Peppards case may not be over as the Ramblers may appeal, not sure what Somerset bridleways group will do maybe wait and have a meeting with the Ramblers - bet the Sec of State is overdosing on rescue remedy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...otpath-ends-victory-brother-sister-died-2011/

Then the telegraph run another story which is fascinating as this effects anyone and everyone who owns a garden or land, did you know that when you buy a home/land/garden you pay a solicitor to do searches and the only legally binding thing he/she has to do is check on the definitive map to see if you have a right of way across you newly owned property, he/she is not liable if someone claims your garden/land as a right of way due to a map dating back centuries, the more I read the more I worry about moving....... it's a minefield but at least I am being educated about it all

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...undreds-thousands-walkers-rush-record-rights/

Quite rightly they should have to pay the landowners cost as they I am sure would have claimed from the landowner had it gone the other way . I do hope the ramblers see sense however thats not likely from experience some of them are right arrogant T*****s .

 

[Cecile]

Quite rightly they should have to pay the landowners cost as they I am sure would have claimed from the landowner had it gone the other way . I do hope the ramblers see sense however thats not likely from experience some of them are right arrogant T*****s .

Even with this ruling I don't believe the Peppards case is over until the fat lady sings, its becoming like a David and Goliath situation where the footpath claimed by the Ramblers and a bridleway claimed by Somerset Bridleway group has no bearing on what it all about

In 2012 the High Court Judge said "this matter is in the public's interest and should be ventilated"

Well judging on the information I am hearing I wish I had been able to attend the recent Inquiry and I will wait and watch to see if the Ramblers make a statutory challenge in the High Court and also wait to see if the SSBA withdraw their application that the footpath is a bridleway

Well the judge certainly was correct in 2012 and its now certainly becoming public interest and is now being ventilated

I'm with you and I hope they see sense but somehow doubt it

 

[popsdosh]

Even with this ruling I don't believe the Peppards case is over until the fat lady sings, its becoming like a David and Goliath situation where the footpath claimed by the Ramblers and a bridleway claimed by Somerset Bridleway group has no bearing on what it all about

In 2012 the High Court Judge said "this matter is in the public's interest and should be ventilated"

Well judging on the information I am hearing I wish I had been able to attend the recent Inquiry and I will wait and watch to see if the Ramblers make a statutory challenge in the High Court and also wait to see if the SSBA withdraw their application that the footpath is a bridleway

Well the judge certainly was correct in 2012 and its now certainly becoming public interest and is now being ventilated

I'm with you and I hope they see sense but somehow doubt it

It would indeed be a first for the RA. They hark back to the good old days of communism.

 

[Cecile]

It would indeed be a first for the RA. They hark back to the good old days of communism.

Yep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Rothman

The Peppard case has been and will continue to be interesting, from the first time I saw the photo of Archie and Ivy Peppard outside their cottage and read a brief story I have been fascinated with how it all started and how it will turn out

 

[Cecile]

It would indeed be a first for the RA. They hark back to the good old days of communism.

Yep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Rothman

The Peppard case has been and will continue to be interesting, from the first time I saw the photo of Archie and Ivy Peppard outside their cottage and read a brief story I have been fascinated with how it all started and how it will turn out